Context: I was a Boy Scout for a number of years, making Eagle in 2020 right as COVID was really kicking off.
It was right afterwards, however, that the CSA scandal started popping up everywhere (which thankfully I was never exposed to or involved in during my time), and lately it seems like the organization & movement as a whole has fallen by the sociocultural wayside.
I would say that my time as a Scout did me objective good; I learned a decent amount about first-aid & survival-craft, participated in a number of volunteer & civic projects, and it generally made me a more well-rounded person. However, there’s no denying the impact that something “bigger than the Catholic Church scandal”, as I’ve heard it described, has on an institution such as this.
I’d like to get the community’s opinion, however; were any of you Scouts? How was your experience? What is your opinion of the institution today?
My experiences are with the Norwegian scouts organization, and it may differ in many areas from the American Boy Scouts.
I’ve been a scout since I was about 12 (joined late), and currently a leader for the kids. I, and they, learn so much in all aspects of life. Everything from leadership, respect, guidance, to survival, creativity, and ingenuity. The leaders provide resources, tasks and challenges, and the kids are given mostly free reign within reason of safety.
My scout group has always (also before I joined) had an inclusive setup, where traditionally there were more boys than girls, and the last time the group was purely boys was more than 60 years ago, I believe. Lately, completely organically, we have ended up with more girls than boys, somehow, and it works just as fine. The only noticeable difference is perhaps a bit more tidy camp grounds. We are a bit unique even among groups in Norway with having mixed gender patrols (kids aged 10 - 16, in groups of 5 - 8), but despite a lot of scepticism from other groups, it works totally fine. I can’t even recall last time we had a gender-related issue. Issues are more related to the typical teenager bickering, especially the “they are only one year older, why can’t I go swim without supervision?”.
In regards to religion, the Christianity part of it was never more than simple tradition ever since I joined. We have some songs that are kinda reflecting christian values, but that’s about it, as far as influence goes in the events and activities. We’ve had some scandals here and there in regards to inappropriate adults, sure, but that has never been blown out of proportion in a way that it hurt the entire organization, as far as I know. They are dealt with accordingly, and banned, that’s it.
And a little promotion for those of you reading who don’t have experience with scouting: We have trips all the time, and every summer we have a weeklong trip to some forest somewhere in Scandinavia. And every four years there’s the national scouting camp (Landsleir) where around 10.000 scouts from the entire country + whoever else wants to join gather for a week in Norway. Another thing that happens every four years is the World Scout Jamboree, the next one being next year, and I’ll once again join as an International Service Team member, making a great international event for about 40.000 participants. Last time was in South Korea, which was quite the adventure, first struggling with a heat wave, then having to evacuate due to a typhoon.
All this helps build great people, who respect differences across cultures and traditions, and I indeed think it objectively do kids good.
Was one of the only organizations I knew of that was kid-run, with kids deciding what to do and how to do it. Great to get away from parents and go out camping once a month.
It seems good for people. Most people I’ve known who did it seem glad they did.
It’s one of those things where I wish the governing body was more separate from the concept, and I feel for people who dedicated a great deal of time to a positive force in their life yet have to grapple with what the institution itself is.
Scouting experience really depends a lot on the local troop (and council to some extent)
I had reservations about BSA (now just SA I guess :), but my son decided to join some years back, and I supported him, even eventually becoming an assistant scoutmaster in his troop.
I would say the program has a lot of great aspects, and I have seen first hand many kids really benefit from it, helping them overcome various challenges and grow into better and more independent people, including my son who also benefited from it greatly.
I do disagree with some of the policies, especially at the national level - I am an atheist, and the insistence on essentially not allowing atheists to participate openly is regrettable. I am glad they decided to allow girls and gay kids participate however.
Our troop was the first one in my area to allow girls to join. At the time we joined, the troop had a great group of kids (boys and girls) and parents which had the right attitude, and were generally looking for the right things from the program, focusing on what I think are the important aspects (for example religion played almost no role in our troop) and everything worked really well. I have definitely encountered other troops that I am pretty sure my son nor I would be able to stay with more than a day however. Also as kids age out, and new kids and parents join, the vibe of a troop can shift as well, so it’s a bit of a crapshoot. My son aged out, and I have transitioned out, but the last year in the troop things weren’t as good as when we first joined.
The scandals of the past are obviously terrible. However, other than having to do all the extra training and strict emphasis on rules designed to prevent such stuff from happening again in the future, I haven’t really seen any of that type of stuff during my time with the scouts - no creeps, and all parents and volunteers I interacted with were generally quite on board with following the rules and working together to keep the environment safe. But I suppose as with everything, a lot depends on your area and specific troop.
I was a Boy Scout some years ago. I think as a programme to get young boys interested in outdoor activities it worked pretty well. As for the paedophilia scandals, I think they were intrinsic to how the group is organised. Their decentralised model that relies on volunteer scoutmasters is very prone to infiltration by people who have no business being around children and difficult to police because they can’t actually supervise each individual troop but are still legally responsible for them.
I also think they sort of lost the plot with their whole transgender nonsense and their pivot to the “Scouting America” brand. Their exclusion of transgender boys and heavy emphasis on religion indicated a severe failure to get with the times. Transitioning from the Boy Scouts of America to “Scouting America” is giving up on their core model of being an organisation that serves primarily boys.
Don’t take this in a bigoted way, I’m saying this not because I think gender segregation is good, but their core customer base (if you want to call it that) is teenage boys, and there’s an allure to that demographic in being a part of an organisation that is designed to serve boys, seeing that the Girl Scouts are also a thing. The Boy Scouts have a strong anti-radicalising effect because they teach boys to be accepting of others with differences and to be open minded and learn from them. And girls sorta know that Scouting America isn’t really for them, seeing that 80% of its membership consists of boys and the membership of the Girl Scouts USA (which is practically 100% girls) outnumber the female members of the BSA 5 to 1. So what’s left is an organisation which boys think isn’t for them, and girls also think isn’t for them. So who’s it for, really?
I can’t go this long without acknowledging that for every failure of the former Boy Scouts of America, there is a corresponding success of the Girl Scouts USA. The Girl Scouts is far more secular as an organisation to begin with, and they are also more progressive in that they accepted transgender girls over half a decade earlier than the Boy Scouts, who pretty much had to be dragged kicking into the 21st century. I remember in my Boy Scout handbook a line which said, roughly, that “the BSA is a secular organisation, meaning we don’t tell you how to worship, however, we believe boys cannot be their best selves without finding their connection with God.” And even 13-year-old me knew that was a load of doublespeak rubbish. The BSA was a deeply religious organisation. Boy Scout events had organised prayers and they said grace before every meal at the camps. There is a difference between acknowledging the religion of what may be a majority of your participants, and trying to nudge the remainder into it, and I think the BSA fell on the wrong side of that line.
So while I think the BSA was an imperfect organisation, I still think it’s a shame to see its decline.
my friends were Scouts but I was always too poor and my homelife was too unpredictable to be in any kind of organization with the kind of commitment requirements that Scouts required.
My friends in the early 90s that were in Scouts had a Scout Master that they all considered to be a creepy pedo. So its not anything new. Anytime there is young people and adults without proper supervision, this is bound to happen.
The priest that baptized me was a pedo and to make it even worse, he was moved away from a chruch when it came to light that he was molesting children
AND THEY MOVED HIM TO MY CHURCH. WHICH WAS ALSO A GRADE SCHOOL / JUNIOR HIGH
Let that sink in.
Right around the time that he “retired” one of my schoolmates just disappeared from school too. I have always wondered if that was connected.
Yeah, I don’t go to Mass anymore. I don’t do church anymore.
I think that scouting helped me in a lot of ways, although the whole “help people with a smile on your face” has caused some major difficulties in my life w.r.t. self-care. I did OA stuff, Silver Moccasin one year and then followed up teaching at the next year’s event, and submitted my Eagle paperwork on my 18th birthday (late 2000s). I was openly an atheist, but my scoutmaster and many of the other adults in the troop (we had 50 kids and 100 adults) were very understanding, and I was able to pass my eagle board of review by talking about how I was still a spiritually active person.
I had a pretty ideal experience, and I’m glad I participated. I still use stuff that I learned, and scouting helped me discover that my limits were much further than I thought.
I’m sad that something which had the potential to be helpful turned into a nightmare for so many kids. If I had kids I might still look into some of the local troops, but I’d have to be heavily involved in order to feel comfortable.
I was a scout, I made it to life then stopped going to church around 15. Even though it was largely connected to church, I remember it fondly. Scout is some of my best memories.
I think it’s a shame that they have fallen, however, I understand why it has.
Same, I was a couple badges and my project shy of Eagle when I finally threw in the towel. Order of the Arrow was great, we got to do tons of fun stuff. As an electrician, i still use some of the knots i learned to pull wire, among other things.
BSA had a reputation for having a pedophile problem back in the 90s as I recall, though. Im sure it went back farther.
I wasn’t tapped for the order of the arrow. My brother was though. He got this really cool wooden arrow.
Context: Historically there were two separate types of scouts: Mormons and everyone else. The two programs were only tengentally related. Mormons made up around 50% of the numbers. For Mormons 100% of the teen boys were enrolled in the program (whether they wanted to or not). The scout leaders were voluntold to run the program usually with zero experience. Parents did fun things like make rules they had to have their eagle scout before they could drive. etc… So let’s just say, it was a complete and absolute clusterfuck.
I was forced to be in the Mormon version. I had zero interest in it. I thought the whole merit badges and stuff was bullshit so I never completed any of them.
One of my fondest memories was the jamboree I got to go home early from because I was kicked out. Apparently a snipe hunt, unauthorized bonfire, a hatchet throwing contest against the main lodge, and flipping off the camp leader and walking away was a no no. Before I got the boot, I did win all sorts of contests like knot tying, fire building, and first aide (had a bit of practical experience for some reason). That was the last one I had to go to for some odd reason.
I’d like to send my kid to Scouts/Cubs but I’d have to be chaperoning. Too many horror stories from evil kids and evil adults.
Cub Scouts require parents to participate. And most Scout troops I think wish more of their parents would take a more active role in the troop, so usually you would be more than welcome, both at meetings and on treks.
My best friend was a scout and my older brother was, too. I never joined, I’ve never been a joiner. I never heard a thing about any abuse.
I did learn a lot from my friend and brother, and I read parts of the BS handbook (or whatever it was called). Learned about navigating with a compass, building a lean-to, building fires, first-aid, etc. from that book. It was all interesting because we used to go camping for summer vacation.
I bought a plywood kayak kit from the scouts, and built it, as did my friend. We had fun paddling around a reservoir with them.
