The more I hear people talk about it who aren’t cis-het men, the more I hear criticism about the concept. But so far, I’ve only heard people say that it’s stupid, that it’s not a thing, that it’s men’s own fault etc. But I’ve yet to understand where that criticism comes from. I don’t want to start a discussion on whether or not it’s real or not. I just want to understand where the critics are coming from.
I feel like that’s a easy statement for people to upvote. But I don’t really see an answer to the question. What is the course? Change what? And what established progressive policy?
Not trying to antagonise you at all. Just trying to dig deeper
Wealth redistribution would fix pretty much all social and economic issues
That’s the course if people want a clear one to an equal society
That question being:
To repeat my answer: It comes from a lack of empathy, as it’s easier to downplay a problem than to take it seriously.
Whenever a statistic isn’t fair towards a group, be it income, housing, … corrective measures are being implemented. Unless that group is men, such as the homelessness, suicide, incarceration, lower education, … Then it’s seen as “normal”.
From the feminist side, there’s a lack of empathy towards men because “they did it to themselves” and from most other camps it’s “men are supposed to be tough, stop being a pussy”.
though a sizable amount of feminists instead characterize men as also victims of the patriarchy, a system they didn’t choose to be part of
I can’t say I’ve encountered that. I don’t doubt there are reasonable feminists out there but the ones I’ve encountered have been the “all men are trash” type.
You might not be identifying reasonable feminists then, because the “men are trash” ones are more visible. You’re probably surrounded by feminists and encountering them all the time, but unless you’re asking them their stance about reproductive rights or equality in parental leave or something else in conversation you wouldn’t know it.
In feminist scholarship it tends more towards the “we are all victims of patriarchy” stance. Most my friends are academics so they tend to lean the same direction, though not always.
On the flip side, I have never encountered this, and would probably say that roughly 95% of the people I know and interact with are feminists.
It’s worth emphasising that concerns about male mental health in large part comes from feminism. Feminism is not inherently man hating, and research of gender dynamics through the lense of feminism is what made it possible to observe how patriarchal structures in society harm not only women, but also men.
It’s kinda like how a marxist will tell you that even rich people are happier in egalitarian societies: Capitalism hurts everyone, including the ones seemingly profiting from it. In the same way, feminism gave way to the insight that patriarchy hurts everyone, including men.
That said, you’re not wrong that here is a (perhaps more popular rather than scholarly) feminist critique of male grievances. Feminism is a bunch of different things, and there’s a bunch of contradictions between different understandings of feminism.
Not too weird then that people end up hating the whole issue. Some feminists hate it because it’s sympathising with the oppressor or whatever, while anti-feminists hate it because they see it as soft feminist bullshit or whatever. Having a nuanced opinion about anything these days is difficult.
Very true. I realise I should have picked my wording better in my original post that was meant to be little more than a quick summary. When I said ‘feminist side’ I did not wish to refer to all feminists but specifically the new generation type otherwise known as the ‘feminazi’ or ‘those loud unempathetic bitches you see on Tiktok’.
Yeah, I got what you meant - it’s a word that takes on a billion different meanings. I just find it to be important to push back against the strawman whenever I see it, as I’m not gonna let a bunch of dumb kids raised by a social media algorithm ruin feminism for me. Get off my lawn etc.
Very much that. Didn’t answer you at all.
To actually answer your question, people who don’t believe in the Male Loneliness Epidemic (MLE) think a lot of the “epidemic” is just shitty men complaining that nobody wants to be around them instead of doing any self-reflecting and changing their own shittiness. It’s tied to the incel movement (which is why you’re getting a lot of very snippy responses imo lol).
Plus, a lot of the champions of the MLE are insufferable dudes who maybe are lonely not because of some societal epidemic but maybe because they’re just fucking assholes?
Personally, I have no idea if there’s truly a MLE. I think a lot of it really could be asshole men online complaining that nobody likes them without recognizing that it’s their own actions causing their own loneliness. I also think it could just be the internet is ruining any sense of community and togetherness, and men are being vocal about it and tying this loss of community to men specifically, but idk, I feel like there isn’t some special issue of loneliness targeting men rn.
Do you think people are born as “fucking assholes”, or shaped that way by their environment?