You’re feigning ignorance then if you actually recall the books. Zendaya’s/Denis’ Chani and Herbert’s Chani are like night and day. And, again, what exactly was ‘misogynistic’ about my comment? And do I have to start copypasting passages of Dune and Messiah and make a comparative analysis with Denis’ Dune? It’s past midnight over here, my guy.
To be completely honest, Herbert’s Chani was pretty forgettable. Admittedly, it’s been a very long time since I’ve read anything Dune, but I truly cannot remember anything memorable about Chani in the books…
She’s Paul’s everything (and trying to keep her alive for as long as possible is the main reason he does anything in Messiah, basically) and mostly a supporting character in the books, and there’s nothing wrong with that… but Zendaya is a star and the West would’ve crucified Denis if he just let Chani be Chani. We both know it, that’s the core of the disagreement in this comment section, lol. Heretics and Chapterhouse have fantastic female protagonists, but I doubt we’ll get there, sadly.
If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re upset that he improved Chani? Or do you just prefer 1 dimensional women characters who are defined entirely by their man?
It’s not an improvement, not at all. Chani in the books is someone I can picture becoming the muse and pillar of a complex man burdened with knowledge and duty (which is narratively necessary in both Dune and Messiah!). Lippy, immature, irrationally rebellious and feisty Zendaya’s Chani is not that. Again, many books, including Herbert’s own later in the series, have female protagonists who are not “1 dimensional” (although none as shallow and silly as the girl boss Chani of Denis, who certainly isn’t 1 dimensional, lol 🙄) and are fantastic. And upset is a big word, more like “disappointed and dissatisfied”, but money follows audiences so I understand. 🤷
No, it was certainly deliberate (and a little cheeky), but without any generalized hatred. Zendaya’s Chani just happens to exhibit it and, as such, she cannot realistically be the idealised extremely mature, softly feminine (but realistic and pragmatic because she’s a Fremen still) and self-sacrificial teenager both Muad’dib (another teenager but a princeling infused with excess, inhuman knowledge) and the story need for it to make sense. Paul needs someone of his caliber, but a yin to his yang, and OG Chani is exactly that. The sexes are different and our shortcomings come in different shades: needlessly argumentative and difficult “lippy” is to women what arrogant “mansplaining” or physical and erratical “brutish” is to men, for example. 🤷
You’re feigning ignorance then if you actually recall the books. Zendaya’s/Denis’ Chani and Herbert’s Chani are like night and day. And, again, what exactly was ‘misogynistic’ about my comment? And do I have to start copypasting passages of Dune and Messiah and make a comparative analysis with Denis’ Dune? It’s past midnight over here, my guy.
To be completely honest, Herbert’s Chani was pretty forgettable. Admittedly, it’s been a very long time since I’ve read anything Dune, but I truly cannot remember anything memorable about Chani in the books…
She’s Paul’s everything (and trying to keep her alive for as long as possible is the main reason he does anything in Messiah, basically) and mostly a supporting character in the books, and there’s nothing wrong with that… but Zendaya is a star and the West would’ve crucified Denis if he just let Chani be Chani. We both know it, that’s the core of the disagreement in this comment section, lol. Heretics and Chapterhouse have fantastic female protagonists, but I doubt we’ll get there, sadly.
Literally her only trait that I can remember.
If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re upset that he improved Chani? Or do you just prefer 1 dimensional women characters who are defined entirely by their man?
It’s not an improvement, not at all. Chani in the books is someone I can picture becoming the muse and pillar of a complex man burdened with knowledge and duty (which is narratively necessary in both Dune and Messiah!). Lippy, immature, irrationally rebellious and feisty Zendaya’s Chani is not that. Again, many books, including Herbert’s own later in the series, have female protagonists who are not “1 dimensional” (although none as shallow and silly as the girl boss Chani of Denis, who certainly isn’t 1 dimensional, lol 🙄) and are fantastic. And upset is a big word, more like “disappointed and dissatisfied”, but money follows audiences so I understand. 🤷
Lippy? 😬
Like yappy, but with a disrespectful attitude for no reason. 😅
I’m familiar with the word… I just think it betrays a bit of misogyny. Probably not even consciously.
No, it was certainly deliberate (and a little cheeky), but without any generalized hatred. Zendaya’s Chani just happens to exhibit it and, as such, she cannot realistically be the idealised extremely mature, softly feminine (but realistic and pragmatic because she’s a Fremen still) and self-sacrificial teenager both Muad’dib (another teenager but a princeling infused with excess, inhuman knowledge) and the story need for it to make sense. Paul needs someone of his caliber, but a yin to his yang, and OG Chani is exactly that. The sexes are different and our shortcomings come in different shades: needlessly argumentative and difficult “lippy” is to women what arrogant “mansplaining” or physical and erratical “brutish” is to men, for example. 🤷
Is this “the west” here in the room with us?
Unless Lemmings suddenly became majority Pakistani/Maori/Persian/Nigerian/Dagestani/Indonesian/Algerian/etc., ofc! 😅
Honestly it feels like you dislike the actor and are projecting it on to the character.
You’re the king/queen of avoidance.