We have extremely different perspectives
Rupert Murdoch’s Skynews:
The protesters rallying for migration control on Sunday aren’t knuckle-dragging racists, but normal people who think open borders is a bad thing – that’s something that will shake the progressive activists to their core
In much of the media, the impulse has been to give less emphasis to the mass of people and try to shape the narrative around the rowdier reactionaries in the crowd and speakers with dubious ties and divisive platforms. While such elements deserve scrutiny, this doesn’t take into account, and even wilfully ignores several realities.
The Guardian:
Neo-Nazis used the shield of ‘ordinary mums and dads’ anti-immigration rallies to sell white supremacy
From online grievances about migration to men dressed in black in a sea of Australian flags, far-right groups clearly intended to capitalise on events
Politicians:
“There’s always good people who turn up to demonstrate their views on particular issues, but what we have seen here is Neo-Nazis being given a platform,” Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said.
“[These events were] attended by people of goodwill but hijacked by violent Neo-Nazis spouting hate and racism,” said Opposition Leader Sussan Ley.
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Murdoch is way off here. Even if we accept that the majority of protesters aren’t motivated by racism - I don’t accept that, but for the sake of argument - these protests drag the discourse to the right and make the fascists(I tried to type racists but autocorrect got it right this time) seem more reasonable.
Murdoch is pushing the nationalist narrative that they have spent millions of dollars locally and billions of dollars internationally pushing.
It’s the same Narrative that lead to Brexit and the same Narrative that lead to Trump.
It is a narrative that needs to be rejected at every opportunity.
I’d say the mere act of expressing these views publicly, possibly intimidating minorities, says enough about someone’s character.
And the protests were organized by neo-nazis IIRC.
None of them except the first paragraph are false, and even that one could be true if it were qualified instead of generalised.
They have biases, they might suggest and emphasise parts inappropriately, but the fact is this event, or rather these events were more complex than most articles or comment sections said.
Even some of my earlier comments were affected by missing information, generalisation and a bit of shock. For example, after having talked to a few different (socialist) people who were present visiting the racist rallies in Sydney, they pointed out that:
- The NSN were being sneaky in how they represented themselves, such as not leading the march out of Belmore Park, but then having a dozen of them jump to the front once the march was underway for the photo ops. Most of the people in the march would not have seen this at all.
- There were only about 30 of them, many out of uniform
- When they went up to speak, there was the same generic applause that other speakers got, and about half the reactions were boos instead of cheers once they started saying things, with many leaving
- Their attempted march on Newtown just got redirected down a side street where they changed clothes and went to the train station
Now, this does not change that it was well-known and well-publicised in advance that neo-Nazi organisations would be present, that they were involved in the organisation of many of the events and the main website.
It does not change that the protests themselves were based upon racist deflectionary arguments, including ones made by Labor members. This doesn’t mean all marchers are inherently racist, or that they were aware of the racism, but they’re repeating and supporting racist claims that immigration is to blame for various crises, or that some cultures (read: non-white cultures) are a major problem while others aren’t.
It does not change that a large amount of attendees were openly white nationalists, and that a large amount of attendees were knowingly tolerant of neo-Nazis. It does not change that the attendees who didn’t contest the Nazis accepted and emboldened them.
But we should try to avoid being careless and suggesting that everyone there is irredeemable and was there to be racist. It was foolish, ignorant and harmful for them to attend. But in my opinion, this was a way for many people to voice legitimate grievances which they believed were unvoiced, like housing. And so long as Liberals and Labor deflect that crisis onto immigrants, and as long as those to the left can’t get their voices heard in the mainstream, fascists will be there to collect their rage. If you want to stop neo-Nazis from being validated, we have to let citizens know we’re fighting for them.
To add to and continue your theme,
A Voice from Independent Media
In Sydney, protest organiser Jesse Stewart spoke about the “Great Replacement” conspiracy theory – the key ideological underpinning of the Christchurch shooter who murdered 51 Muslims.
The leaders of neo-Nazi groups were handed the microphone to rail against “Indians, Africans, and Chinese” migrants who were “exploiting” Australian land. They received loud cheers.
In Brisbane, when some participants expressed dismay that Nazis were being platformed, the crowd dismissed them.
“The protesters rallying for migration control on Sunday aren’t knuckle-dragging racists, but normal people who think open borders is a bad thing – that’s something that will shake the progressive activists to their core”
This is right. Almost all of the protesters and followers just want to close the border until we can fix the massive issues that are compounded the more people we let in.
… close the border until we can fix the massive issues…
What issues do you think we will fix once we close the border?
None of them are fixed by closing the border, and that’s not what anyone is suggesting. By closing the border you stop the problem from getting worse and worse. This allows you to start addressing the problems much easier. It’s like plugging the hole in a sinking boat before grabbing the bucket versus just trying to empty it with a bucket while the hole is still there.
If we keep bringing in more people, the housing availability crisis keeps getting worse since there are more and more people looking for houses - to the tune of 1500 a day.
Do you understand? Do you disagree?
Sheesh here we go with the 1500 a day thing again, people like you ought to be banned from (mis)interpreting OAD and NOM datasets released by the ABS.
Net overseas migration Net overseas migration is the net gain or loss of population through international migration to and from Australia.
In the year ending 30 June 2024, overseas migration contributed a net gain of 446,000 people to Australia’s population. This was a decrease from the record 536,000 people the previous year.
How do you think this is being misinterpreted?
First of all because the trend is downwards by about 90 thou, secondly because Net overseas migration was negative during COVID, so these large figures are a stastical anomaly in response to that.
People who claim the rate is the same now are using OAD data which includes same individuals taking multiple flights in/out of the country therefore it cannot be used to quantify NOM.
Lastly your perspective is that immigration is a net drain on our society, but in reality we would experience severe economic downturn by implementing isolation policies that cull immigration since we’re a developed nation on a fucking island.
If you want someone to whinge at for housing affordability blame Howard for negative gearing and CGT concessions. Billions of dollars are pilfered out of the country by big corporations every year without a cent paid on tax, this money gets put into private funds that invest into our housing, artificially inflating its value by a system he helped create. I know this because I used to work in this system.
You are being robbed blind by these people and they’re telling you to blame immigration for it. Wake up this country needs a fucking shake up.
NOM, as reported by the ABS, was 1500+ a day in 2023. In 2024 it was over 1200 a day. We’ve definitely had an increase this year, especially with stuffing electorates with labor-voting immigrants.
We don’t have NOM figures for this year, but we know that it is tightly aligned with OAD figures - and the 2 OAD figures are at an all time high for one, and the second highest on record for the other……so hmm do you think it’s possible that the NOM will be high?
your position is that immigration is a net drain on society
Woah woah woah - where did you get that from? My position is that increasing demand while keeping supply the same in an already undersupplied market makes the situation worse. I have never said that immigration is a net drain on society lol.
Who is to blame for the current housing crisis is irrelevant in fixing it. Labor are doing nothing to fix it, while allowing it to get worse every single day by increasing demand. Labor are in power - they’re the only ones that can act NOW to try and fix it. That’s their job - or at least it’s supposed to be. No point crying about John Howard ffs lol
Again OAD data cannot be used to quantify NOM data. I’m telling you what the current issues are that are causing housing affordability to be obscene.
I agree Labor are doing fuck all about it, I’m livid at this current governments inaction on many issues but destroying the economy by killing immigration isn’t going to solve anything, direct your anger where it’s needed.
I am sorry you are unable to comprehend these things, asking for people to disagree with you then clearly ignoring their arguments is a pretty pathetic look, even on the internet.
Nice try, knuckle dragging racist
What did I say that is racist?
Do you think housing availability will get better by importing 1500 more people who need housing every day, or worse?
Do you think house affordability will improve with more demand, or get worse?
The ‘1500 per day’ figure that was bandied about isn’t accurate:
https://aussie.zone/comment/18671602
We don’t know the current numbers per day in net migration, but we know that just 2 years ago it was 1500 per day because the ABS themselves tell us on their own website. Last year it was over 1200 per day. This year it is likely closer to 1500 with how quickly the government has been importing voters.
Have you been involved in or supported any housing affordability or public housing campaigns? i don’t think I saw a single campaigner or group that has been organising the campaigns for housing affordability or to save public housing come out in support of closing the borders or lowering immigration or in support of these rallies. Conversely you’d be hard pressed to find a single person that went to any of these rallies who has ever lifted a finger to organise their communities to stop the privatisation of public housing or campaign for better housing affordability.
Can you point me to single person or group that spoke at these rallies or helped to organise them that has done so?
Cool attempted gatekeeping of who is allowed to have an opinion and attend a march.
They never said you can’t have an opinion or attend a march, that’s a strawman on your part. You’ve been telling everyone that you know best about who organised, spoke at and attended the march, yet you are suddenly unwilling or unable answer a pretty simple and direct question about who was there.
Your question is irrelevant. They weren’t organised by neo-nazi. Only 1 of them I believe let one of the neo-Nazis speak, and they were rightly criticised for doing so.
Neo-Nazis attempting to take over a march about X and turn it into Y doesn’t make it a march about Y. You guys need to stop pretending it does, all you’re doing is trying to convince yourself and again - turning everyday people against you.
Your question is irrelevant.
Dodging it again, I see.
They weren’t organised by neo-nazi.
This has already been debunked multiple times in this thread (or the others). Repeating your lie won’t make it true.
You guys need to stop pretending it does, all you’re doing is trying to convince yourself and again - turning everyday people against you.
Only one person is “against us” here. Learn to take an L champ.
You may be intending that, but you’re getting lead by the fascists like a bull by the nose ring.
lol someone is being manipulated and lead on here, but it’s not me - it’s the people like you eating up all the mainstream media’s “it is a racist neo-Nazi march!” propaganda.
