My biggest concern isn’t the “general” Lemmy community—I’m focused on building my community. If a group of people on some distant server decide they don’t like me, that’s perfectly fine. I’m not there to serve them.
But if that dislike turns into dogpiling or harassment—as I’ve already experienced—I’ll use the tools available: blocking, banning, and defederation. Once my server is live, those are exactly the measures I’ll rely on.
And yes, I know this approach may feel at odds with the broader Lemmy culture. But Lemmy itself is still quite small—around 36,000 users. That’s a drop in the bucket compared to the wider Fediverse, and practically invisible next to social media as a whole.
That’s why I’m confident I can create something federated that doesn’t have to follow Lemmy’s norms or culture.
Yeah, I get that. And you’re right, you can do whatever you want including deciding “this community is all just wrong and I’m going to make something right,” and that’s the nice thing about user-hosted networks like this. And I’ve certainly come down on the side of “the Lemmy community can get lost because the majority is wrong on whatever issue we’re talking about” in the past.
Personally in my judgement I don’t really see it as harassment in this case, I just see people disagreeing strongly with your actions and then getting snarky or insulting about it as people are wont to do – like I said, the only thing I really know about you is that you started banning people for downvotes and “bro” both of which seem ridiculous to me. (And also a tactical error, since rightly or wrongly it’ll invite a kind of dogpiling publicity which I don’t think you want.) But yeah, everyone has the ability to draw their own distinction and follow through on their own server / own community based on you being right and everyone else being wrong versus the other way around.
Well, I can only tell you what actually happened: dogpiling and harassment did occur. I had to lock down !fediversenews, and even after that, people followed me into other communities I moderated to continue harassing me.
At that point, the intention behind the original post matters less than the outcome. If the purpose of a community is to amplify outrage, it’s not surprising when some people inevitably take it too far.
Well but like I say, I think you made kind of a tactical error if you don’t want stuff like that to happen. I have plenty of times seen a mod ban for some reason that almost everyone disagrees with. I have never seen a mod snoop on the upvotes for the banned comment and also attempt to ban people from expressing their approval for the banned content, and then send every one of them a snotty DM about it. I think that’s very obviously an overreach, and there is sort of a societal immune system that automatically wants to backlash against that kind of thing by marking the person who did it as “enemy” and making sure they hear about it that that behavior is unwanted. And of course the internet being what it is, sometimes that backlash takes on a life of its own and turns into something incredibly toxic and unwarranted. I think though that this idea that you’ll set yourself apart from that kind of thing ever happening to you, because you can just run your own server and control everything about how people interact with you, is just a non starter. I think reexamining your own behavior is a lot more positive way to approach making sure you won’t get harassed as much in the future.
IDK man, maybe I’m wrong or I missed finding out about some important details of how it happened. And for all I know some people did harass you in some out-of-pocket way. I’m just saying how I see it, that’s all.
You know, I only tried the private message approach because someone suggested it was the best way to de-escalate. Before that, I would simply ban—no conversation, no debate.
On the servers I run myself, I go even further: I de-federate. No warnings. It’s clean, simple, and fast.
Where I misjudged things—and I see this clearly now—was in thinking that private messages would actually reduce conflict. They don’t. If someone shows signs of being toxic, or openly supports toxic behaviour, it’s best to take them at their word. A conversation in that situation won’t lead anywhere productive.
So yes, messaging turned out to be a big waste of time. The real takeaway for me is simple: own the space, set clear expectations, and act quickly when problems arise.
I think the issue was banning for giving votes you didn’t agree with, not with sending the DMs. I’ve sent DMs instead of doing admin actions before, just to open a dialogue, or to give people a chance to push back or explain before I take some kind of action, and that part seems fine. I can’t even really articulate why it was that this rubbed people so badly the wrong way, but I think sending the DMs and getting in an extended back and forth did somehow make it worse. Definitely doubling down and banning people (and also DMing them) because their reaction and vote on it wasn’t the “correct” and permitted one according to you made it worse.
People can vote. People can react. Setting yourself up as this lord and arbiter of what’s right and wrong is always going to make a backlash. If it was me, I would have made a public reply instead of a DM so that other people can weigh in, I would have framed it in terms of “what I allow here” and made sure to clarify the rules on the sidebar instead of framing your point of view as the one that’s objectively the right one (which you’re still doing here, when you describe calling someone “bro” as “toxic” instead of saying that you personally think it’s rude and don’t allow it). And then if they still don’t agree, you’re still within your rights to just say yes okay fine but that’s the rules, sorry, and ban them (and then move on yes).
I still think you would have gotten backlash, but framing it in that way would have at least shown you have some awareness that these categories and judgements are just your categories and judgements, and regardless of what the Lemmy software’s mod controls have led you to believe, other people are allowed to have their own that are different from yours. If you’d done that I don’t think it would have really developed to anything, there might have been one YPTB post about it at worst and then people would have shrugged and moved on with their day.
I’ll say this again: the DM wasn’t about a single vote. It was about endorsing toxic behaviour.
Now, about this word “bro.” On the surface, it comes across as casual, even friendly. But in practice, “bro” tends to be shorthand for a culture that excuses arrogance, entitlement, and pack mentality under the banner of camaraderie.
A “bro” is the person who laughs at cruelty because it’s entertaining. The one who treats someone else’s discomfort as sport. The one who believes inside jokes and mockery outweigh basic respect. That isn’t just harmless slang—it’s a posture that normalizes being inconsiderate.
So when people lean on the word “bro,” they’re not just using a throwaway expression. They’re reinforcing a culture built on lowest-common-denominator bonding, where aggression is rewarded, harm is brushed off, and civility is treated like weakness. That’s not a culture I want to foster in spaces I’m responsible for.
Now, you may disagree, and that’s fair. But this is my interpretation. And when everyone doubled down on “bro”—using it in the exact way I find problematic—it only confirmed for me that they were subscribing to bro culture. I don’t do bro, bruh, brah, or dudebro for good reason.
What struck me is that nobody asked why. They just assumed it was a quirk. But to me, it’s not a quirk—it’s a principle. Maybe these are simply my categories and judgements, but I believe the world genuinely needs fewer bros. Fewer Andrew Tates. Fewer Donald Trumps.
Yes, this is one of my lines in the sand. And the fact that so many people on Lemmy seem comfortable embracing “bro” as an identity—that, to me, is a real problem.
Sure. That’s all your opinion. And the rest of Lemmy is letting you know how they plan to react, when instead of trying to convince them of that while respecting their ability to make up their own mind at the end of the day, you ban them for expressing even a hint of any other viewpoint, and insist that they’re being bad.
I don’t even think your viewpoint is crazy or wrong or anything, but bouncing on mod controls and insisting to people implicitly that they’re being “toxic” if they think anything different even if they literally didn’t mean anything wrong or offensive, and there’s a 0% chance that their viewpoint has any validity and 100% that yours is the objectively right viewpoint, isn’t going to make progress on turning people around to it.
You don’t like “Bro-culture”. That’s a description of a specific sort of gross social movement. You are extending that dislike to a ubiquitous word that only has that connotation when used as a descriptor of “Bro-culture-Bros”.
The word itself and it’s common usage have nothing to do with that, it’s one of the most commonly used, informal, globally-colloquial expressions in our current era.
It’s like getting mad at the word right cause it’s part of right-wing, and people use it all the time to indicate direction which is causing a rise of global fascism. It’s not just silly, it’s a common reason for you to have an argument with a person.
It’s not an opinion, it’s a little loaded argument gun you always have cocked, it’s really silly and obvious you just like to argue and this is a pit trap full of sharpened spikes. Grow up.
That’s just one reason. Another reason I don’t like “bro” is because it’s often used as a diminisher. Chill out, bro. Don’t take it so seriously, bro. It’s shorthand for brushing someone off, trivializing their feelings, or cutting them down while pretending it’s casual. That dynamic doesn’t build respect—it erodes it.
Also, “bro” creates a sense of fake familiarity. It gets used to imply closeness that isn’t there, as if a single word can override the need for trust or mutual understanding. That kind of assumed intimacy often feels presumptive and even manipulative, especially in spaces where people don’t know each other well.
So basically there’s three solid reasons to not allow bro-talk.
There’s one reason to use the word “bro”, which I find perfectly acceptable: if someone is a literal sibling. Otherwise, you don’t need it. It shouldn’t be in your vocabulary.
Be that as it may, you may disagree. In which case there’s several Lemmy servers in which it’s perfectly allowable—but not mine.
EDIT: And while we’re at it, there’s two more reasons to avoid bro-talk:
Even if meant positively, it’s exclusionary
Assumes gender, magnifying the risk of misgendering
![[Update] AtomicPoet has deleted the piefed.social communities where he was the sole moderator (!movies@piefed.social being the exception). Content is still available, details in the linked post](https://lazysoci.al/pictrs/image/cb7c5a29-e297-41a8-bde5-698ba205c3fd.png){kind=link}
I’ll respond to your edit directly.
My biggest concern isn’t the “general” Lemmy community—I’m focused on building my community. If a group of people on some distant server decide they don’t like me, that’s perfectly fine. I’m not there to serve them.
But if that dislike turns into dogpiling or harassment—as I’ve already experienced—I’ll use the tools available: blocking, banning, and defederation. Once my server is live, those are exactly the measures I’ll rely on.
And yes, I know this approach may feel at odds with the broader Lemmy culture. But Lemmy itself is still quite small—around 36,000 users. That’s a drop in the bucket compared to the wider Fediverse, and practically invisible next to social media as a whole.
That’s why I’m confident I can create something federated that doesn’t have to follow Lemmy’s norms or culture.
Yeah, I get that. And you’re right, you can do whatever you want including deciding “this community is all just wrong and I’m going to make something right,” and that’s the nice thing about user-hosted networks like this. And I’ve certainly come down on the side of “the Lemmy community can get lost because the majority is wrong on whatever issue we’re talking about” in the past.
Personally in my judgement I don’t really see it as harassment in this case, I just see people disagreeing strongly with your actions and then getting snarky or insulting about it as people are wont to do – like I said, the only thing I really know about you is that you started banning people for downvotes and “bro” both of which seem ridiculous to me. (And also a tactical error, since rightly or wrongly it’ll invite a kind of dogpiling publicity which I don’t think you want.) But yeah, everyone has the ability to draw their own distinction and follow through on their own server / own community based on you being right and everyone else being wrong versus the other way around.
Well, I can only tell you what actually happened: dogpiling and harassment did occur. I had to lock down !fediversenews, and even after that, people followed me into other communities I moderated to continue harassing me.
At that point, the intention behind the original post matters less than the outcome. If the purpose of a community is to amplify outrage, it’s not surprising when some people inevitably take it too far.
Well but like I say, I think you made kind of a tactical error if you don’t want stuff like that to happen. I have plenty of times seen a mod ban for some reason that almost everyone disagrees with. I have never seen a mod snoop on the upvotes for the banned comment and also attempt to ban people from expressing their approval for the banned content, and then send every one of them a snotty DM about it. I think that’s very obviously an overreach, and there is sort of a societal immune system that automatically wants to backlash against that kind of thing by marking the person who did it as “enemy” and making sure they hear about it that that behavior is unwanted. And of course the internet being what it is, sometimes that backlash takes on a life of its own and turns into something incredibly toxic and unwarranted. I think though that this idea that you’ll set yourself apart from that kind of thing ever happening to you, because you can just run your own server and control everything about how people interact with you, is just a non starter. I think reexamining your own behavior is a lot more positive way to approach making sure you won’t get harassed as much in the future.
IDK man, maybe I’m wrong or I missed finding out about some important details of how it happened. And for all I know some people did harass you in some out-of-pocket way. I’m just saying how I see it, that’s all.
You know, I only tried the private message approach because someone suggested it was the best way to de-escalate. Before that, I would simply ban—no conversation, no debate.
On the servers I run myself, I go even further: I de-federate. No warnings. It’s clean, simple, and fast.
Where I misjudged things—and I see this clearly now—was in thinking that private messages would actually reduce conflict. They don’t. If someone shows signs of being toxic, or openly supports toxic behaviour, it’s best to take them at their word. A conversation in that situation won’t lead anywhere productive.
So yes, messaging turned out to be a big waste of time. The real takeaway for me is simple: own the space, set clear expectations, and act quickly when problems arise.
I think the issue was banning for giving votes you didn’t agree with, not with sending the DMs. I’ve sent DMs instead of doing admin actions before, just to open a dialogue, or to give people a chance to push back or explain before I take some kind of action, and that part seems fine. I can’t even really articulate why it was that this rubbed people so badly the wrong way, but I think sending the DMs and getting in an extended back and forth did somehow make it worse. Definitely doubling down and banning people (and also DMing them) because their reaction and vote on it wasn’t the “correct” and permitted one according to you made it worse.
People can vote. People can react. Setting yourself up as this lord and arbiter of what’s right and wrong is always going to make a backlash. If it was me, I would have made a public reply instead of a DM so that other people can weigh in, I would have framed it in terms of “what I allow here” and made sure to clarify the rules on the sidebar instead of framing your point of view as the one that’s objectively the right one (which you’re still doing here, when you describe calling someone “bro” as “toxic” instead of saying that you personally think it’s rude and don’t allow it). And then if they still don’t agree, you’re still within your rights to just say yes okay fine but that’s the rules, sorry, and ban them (and then move on yes).
I still think you would have gotten backlash, but framing it in that way would have at least shown you have some awareness that these categories and judgements are just your categories and judgements, and regardless of what the Lemmy software’s mod controls have led you to believe, other people are allowed to have their own that are different from yours. If you’d done that I don’t think it would have really developed to anything, there might have been one YPTB post about it at worst and then people would have shrugged and moved on with their day.
I’ll say this again: the DM wasn’t about a single vote. It was about endorsing toxic behaviour.
Now, about this word “bro.” On the surface, it comes across as casual, even friendly. But in practice, “bro” tends to be shorthand for a culture that excuses arrogance, entitlement, and pack mentality under the banner of camaraderie.
A “bro” is the person who laughs at cruelty because it’s entertaining. The one who treats someone else’s discomfort as sport. The one who believes inside jokes and mockery outweigh basic respect. That isn’t just harmless slang—it’s a posture that normalizes being inconsiderate.
So when people lean on the word “bro,” they’re not just using a throwaway expression. They’re reinforcing a culture built on lowest-common-denominator bonding, where aggression is rewarded, harm is brushed off, and civility is treated like weakness. That’s not a culture I want to foster in spaces I’m responsible for.
Now, you may disagree, and that’s fair. But this is my interpretation. And when everyone doubled down on “bro”—using it in the exact way I find problematic—it only confirmed for me that they were subscribing to bro culture. I don’t do bro, bruh, brah, or dudebro for good reason.
What struck me is that nobody asked why. They just assumed it was a quirk. But to me, it’s not a quirk—it’s a principle. Maybe these are simply my categories and judgements, but I believe the world genuinely needs fewer bros. Fewer Andrew Tates. Fewer Donald Trumps.
Yes, this is one of my lines in the sand. And the fact that so many people on Lemmy seem comfortable embracing “bro” as an identity—that, to me, is a real problem.
Sure. That’s all your opinion. And the rest of Lemmy is letting you know how they plan to react, when instead of trying to convince them of that while respecting their ability to make up their own mind at the end of the day, you ban them for expressing even a hint of any other viewpoint, and insist that they’re being bad.
I don’t even think your viewpoint is crazy or wrong or anything, but bouncing on mod controls and insisting to people implicitly that they’re being “toxic” if they think anything different even if they literally didn’t mean anything wrong or offensive, and there’s a 0% chance that their viewpoint has any validity and 100% that yours is the objectively right viewpoint, isn’t going to make progress on turning people around to it.
Good luck with your instance I guess.
If Lemmy and bro culture are synonymous, then Lemmy has to be fixed.
If Lemmy will not fix its bro culture, then I will defederate Lemmy.
I believe not all of Lemmy is bro culture. But for those servers that are fine with bro culture, I will de-federate them.
You don’t like “Bro-culture”. That’s a description of a specific sort of gross social movement. You are extending that dislike to a ubiquitous word that only has that connotation when used as a descriptor of “Bro-culture-Bros”.
The word itself and it’s common usage have nothing to do with that, it’s one of the most commonly used, informal, globally-colloquial expressions in our current era.
It’s like getting mad at the word right cause it’s part of right-wing, and people use it all the time to indicate direction which is causing a rise of global fascism. It’s not just silly, it’s a common reason for you to have an argument with a person.
It’s not an opinion, it’s a little loaded argument gun you always have cocked, it’s really silly and obvious you just like to argue and this is a pit trap full of sharpened spikes. Grow up.
That’s just one reason. Another reason I don’t like “bro” is because it’s often used as a diminisher. Chill out, bro. Don’t take it so seriously, bro. It’s shorthand for brushing someone off, trivializing their feelings, or cutting them down while pretending it’s casual. That dynamic doesn’t build respect—it erodes it.
Also, “bro” creates a sense of fake familiarity. It gets used to imply closeness that isn’t there, as if a single word can override the need for trust or mutual understanding. That kind of assumed intimacy often feels presumptive and even manipulative, especially in spaces where people don’t know each other well.
So basically there’s three solid reasons to not allow bro-talk.
There’s one reason to use the word “bro”, which I find perfectly acceptable: if someone is a literal sibling. Otherwise, you don’t need it. It shouldn’t be in your vocabulary.
Be that as it may, you may disagree. In which case there’s several Lemmy servers in which it’s perfectly allowable—but not mine.
EDIT: And while we’re at it, there’s two more reasons to avoid bro-talk: