- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
cross-posted from: https://scribe.disroot.org/post/4931252
Here you can see a trailer (3 min, scroll to the bottom of the page)
More about the film and upcoming events to watch across the globe are on the documentary’s website: https://www.childreninthefire.com/
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Children in the Fire [is] a new documentary directed by Evgeny Afineevsky, a Russian-born, US-based film-maker whose previous works include Cries from Syria, about the Syrian civil war, and the Oscar-nominated Winter on Fire, which covered the 2013-14 Euromaidan protests in Ukraine. Along with horrifying stories of abduction and forced adoption, the new film also features children who have endured extensive burns, injuries and amputations since February 2022.
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The film includes footage of Putin stating that, “Wars are not won by generals, but rather by schoolteachers and priests.”
“He is saying that re-education is the key element of winning the war. And it applies not only to Ukrainian kids; it applies to the entirety of Russia. He is trying to create a sort of Hitler Youth movement.”
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[Edit typo.]
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So what have tankies got to say here?
They seem real quiet.
Dude I grew up socialist at heart, my great-grandpa was at the ford riots where people got shot.
But this shit nonsense that tankies spew make me almost want to rebrand my beliefs. You can’t just say that atrocities didn’t happen because you like the general philosophy of the political system. (Even though it was communism for exactly 3 minutes before sliding into good ol’ authoritarianism)
I get the same shit talking to some super pro china folks. Yes, amazing leaps and technological bounds are happening and socially a lot of commendation is due. I am really, really in awe of some of their progresses. But it’s really really weird how they go into full-on denial mode if I mention that one time a local mayor or whatever farted during a town hall. That apparently becomes “western propaganda”, no matter how happy I am to talk shit about the shortcomings of my country as well. Blind nationalism makes me really crazy. And I’m American who’s lived in Asia for a long time so I can really feel it when they’re just talking shit. I grew up with mindless US propaganda, and have spent the past 20ish years hearing Asian “never ever lose face” "everything is fine and always has been fine forever aside from that one time when we defeated the despicable enemy of our glorious party!!!
Guys it’s just as stupid to hear from your nation as it is to hear from the US. We’re all flawed. Admit it so we can continue to improve instead of locking into a shitty system so we don’t offend the great grandfather of the nation or whatever dumb thing. Be yourself ffs. A lot of people from the past were horrible dicksuckers and you should have more confidence in your own personal ideas, be careful choosing idols. Most of them were just shitbags who ended up the victors. And as we all know, history i written by the victors.
*Not directed at you Bruce, just taking the chance to yell at tankies.
+1, I get it.
I don’t know how to say this inoffensively, but I think China (speaking broadly) has a cultural victim complex, which is understandable given their history.
And I think China and Russia governments stoke this victimization for political benefit, kinda like the US convervative movement is doing now.
Anyway, I think that leads to reflexive denial of their own atrocities as if its an abuser blaming a more enlightened victim. And as for the tankies actually outside of those countries, well… I don’t really know.
I think part of it is younger people waking up to how propagandized our government has made them, and then swinging to the opposite side. Like “All that stuff the soviets or ccp said must have been true if so much of what our government said was a lie”. I did something like that after leaving the evangelical church when I was 18. Strong to atheism before adopting a more open-minded approach with room for the fact that I can be very mistaken.
I understand the cultural victimization thing, and it is completely understandable. China is a very unique case, we can learn a lot from them, I just hope that we can come to respect each-other enough to learn from our advantages instead of one-upping our destructive tendencies. Chinese people are awesome, Americans are cool too. And each nation has an equal amount of uncool people. Progress could be easier if we could all be nationalistically humble. Course it would help if we didn’t have a millenia-long history of just killing and taking what we want, that is a big phase to get out of.
Did you really need to watch a documentary to understand what was happening to kidnapped children from Russian war zones? The previous history wasn’t good enough evidence I guess. O well, that war made a great Republican talking point and presidential platform! Those kids are the acceptable losses to election victories here in the USA ❤️
Of course I need to watch it. What I have is a vague idea with a few stories powered by imagination. I will gladly replace the imagined horror of it with a actual account of it. One isn’t real no matter how accurately imagined. The other is a testimony.
Oh there’s plenty of testimony out there. You must not remember the trump administration deleting it a few months back
I didn’t say or imply that there wasn’t other testimony.
If anyone doesn’t know, this is one of the UN’s criteria for Genocide.
“Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”
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https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Forcibly+transferring+children+of+the+group+to+another+group
Yes, you are correct in that people should be wary of basically everything they read on the internet.
The previous poster not only told you the context but also gave a trivially searchable string. And it is always good to do your own research rather than decide you don’t trust someone to tell you the truth but you DO trust them to tell you they are telling the truth.
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Lemmy is the public facing internet. It is no different than anywhere from a community standpoint (and has a lot of implications from a privacy/security one).
But, to harp on that: You randomly popped in and accused someone of potentially spreading misinformation. I pointed out that they actually already provided the source of that quote and you could find it yourself with a quick google.
Which gets into the idea of algorithm driven versus self curated online experiences. The Algorithm is wonderful for getting your rocks off. But, as you rightfully pointed out, it is not a good idea to have other people curate your facts and information. Hence: Learn to verify stuff yourself.
asking for a source is not the same as accusing someone of spreading misinfo
no it isn’t at all
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Sources!? Lol, seriously though. Don’t ask for something you can search in three seconds. If you genuinely cannot find it, then perhaps you could request a source.
Asking for sources is most of the time disingenuous unless it is a scientific forum. So if you get pushback it is because countless trolls use this as a way to be dismissive and abusive.
Even in a scholarly discussion, giving the source of a quote (“the UN’s criteria for Genocide”) is usually more than enough for a discussion and arguably even a journal paper.
Optimally? Yes, you do actually get your bibtex on. But fricking nobody likes footnotes in a discussion. If it is central to the thesis then you definitely cite (and date/archive that). But as an aside or a fun fact? You’ll get dinged in English class but made fun of by editors who acknowledge you are correct but also want to give you a wedgie for actually doing it.
Really fucking dark story time!
Back before the latest war kicked off and nobody gave a shit about Ukranian sovereignty outside of that one bit on Seinfeld, Crimea was a discussion point for one reason or another. With the main argument being that russia can’t give it back because it is not even Ukranian in culture or ethnicity and is really russia anyway.
And a friend pointed out… they aren’t wrong. Because they ethnically cleansed the hell out of it after invading.
they aren’t wrong. Because they ethnically cleansed the hell out of it after invading.
Pretty sure that was literally the plan
Russia has a long history of cultural and ethnic cleansing. They treat every territory they hope to eventually claim like the apocryphal story of “the Nazi bar”. The first guys who show up are perfectly polite and helpful, with good reasons for being there. Then they bring in their friends and family which is totally reasonable. Then those people bring in their friends and family. And it keeps happening, and eventually they are so culturally and linguistically distinct that it’s time for them to demand autonomy and independence, which they won’t be able to get on their own. So then they send in Russian troops to protect their Russian civilians, and before you know it, it turns out your country was actually Russia all along. All of Russia’s neighbors and post-Soviet states understand this because they’ve been victims of it. Sometimes more than once.
This is literally “great replacement conspiracy theory” applied to Russians… Replace the word “Russians” with “Arabs” or “Muslims” and you’re saying literally the same as European Neofascists
Another component is Sevestopol, within Crimea, which has largely been a (colonial) Russian city for almost its entire history. The USSR eedesignated it as a part of Ukraine in the 1950s.
anyone familiar with the american history of manifest destiny (aka the colonial genocide of the native american peoples) will recognize both what russia is doing, and the map of ethnic peoples in russia. czarist russia, the soviet union, and now the russian federation, have all been engaged in an imperial colonial project. the russian treatment of the Ukrainian people has been extraordinarily similar to the united states’ treatment of the Cherokee and Iroquois nations
What you say of the Russian Empire and the contemporary Russian Republic regarding treatment of the Ukrainians is true, but it’s simply false when it comes to the USSR. The USSR defended Ukrainian sovereignty from the start, creating a Ukrainian republic with Ukrainian as the official language, a majority of publications in Ukrainian, right to an education in Ukrainian, and representation of Ukrainian politicians to the point of the USSR having as party leaders for the most part Ukrainians such as Khruschev or Brezhnev. Had it not been for the Soviets (including Ukrainian themselves), Ukraine would have turned into a genocided German colony in the 1940s according to Generalplan Ost, or at best many of its territories would still belong to Poland such as the city of Lviv.
Then why crush the existing Ukrainian self governance of the Makhnovshchina?
Because associated independent preindustrial farms can’t face invasion from industrialized nations. Leaving the farmers in the past would have been the death of them. Remember: the USA, France, Poland, Japan, Greece, Estonia, Romania, Serbia and Italy invaded the RSFSR during the Russian Civil War for the sin of being communist. Stalin famously predicted the Nazi invasion 10 years in advance:
We are 50–100 years behind the advanced countries. We must make good this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or they crush us.
-Stalin, 1931, talking about the industrialization of the Soviet Union.
Indeed, a lot like Canada’s residential school system as well.
What are we, a bunch of North Americans!?
i’m not sure i understand, but i am north american. the reason i posted this is there’s a particular set of people on here who believe everything done by the usa is bad (a form of black and white thinking that’s frankly quite understandable) therefor any country that accepts aid from the usa must be evil (a form of black and white thinking i can absolutely not endorse) and any country that undermines US imperialism must be good (another form of black and white thinking i can absolutely not endorse). this crowd is frequently on lemmy saying that russia’s genocide in eastern ukraine is:
- not really happening and is a fabrication of the cia controlled western media
- if it is happening, is limited to a few troops acting against their commander’s orders
- if it is widespread, it’s not really a big deal because talking about it is just a distraction from the genocides in Gaza and Sudan (though they usually don’t bring up Sudan, they only want to talk about Palestine. and they certainly don’t want to talk about the latin american genocide or the |uygher genocide)
- if it is a big deal, it’s ultimately not russia’s fault, it’s simply what war is and russia must commit to war in order to bring about communist utopia everywhere through a process that can only be described as “somehow”
- if it is russia’s fault, it was simply an understandable miscalculation any country could have made
- if russia did intend to commit genocide against the Ukrainian people, it’s because all Ukrainians, yes all of them, even the anti-zionist jewish ones, are nazis
this particular crowd will say the most absurd shit like that spelling Kyiv “Kyiv” is russophobic. i don’t know how you can even hold that position. Kyiv is a living community filled with people who spell it “Kyiv”. when they ask that news outlets spell it “Kyiv” instead of “Kiev” it’s because they live there. it’s the name of their city. it more accurately portrays how the people there think of and pronounce the name of the community they are part of. calling that russophobic is like saying the fact that the first english colony in north america is spelled “Virginia” now instead of “Firginia” is anglophobic.
anyway. i try to point out to people that my enemy in this global system of terror is not strictly speaking russia, or the russian people, or even really the kremlin or putin. these are all entities that are complicit in the actions of my true enemy, but i am, just like everyone, complicit in the actions of my true enemy: colonialism. i unfortunately have a very solid understanding of the ravages of colonialism. my family arrived in the united states fleeing genocide in the old country. i live on stolen land in a community whose history is primarily centered on the extractive exploitation of petrochemicals. i do not see russia’s actions and see liberators. i see more of the same. i see my enemy: colonialism.
so i speak. i name what i see for what it is in hopes that others will begin to understand that our global system of terror provides us no pure allies and no single individual entity to blame. colonialism was not brought into this world by the usa, china, or russia, though all three are engaged in it in order to further their aims of control. no people will ever be made whole by the black and white thinking that any of the empires are their true ally or true enemy. in fact, black white thinking is a tool of our opressors. it makes us easier to manipulate.
I feel kinda bad for making you type that out. I agree with you.
I was making fun of “What are we a bunch of Asians”, which is a common stock phrase deployed to mock critiques that compare developing autocracies to other autocratic regimes (i.e. Kuomintang, Maoist China, Korea at various points).
who would i be without long thoughts no one asked for.
but i realized there was value to making my stance explicit and i used your comment as my excuse 😉
Russia is the greatest nation for having defeated Napoleon.
That’s the example to choose?
Can’t bring up the fascists in WW2 because they don’t want to alienate their base.
it was when russian controlled territory was at its greatest extent. they are advocating for that russia should control eurasian territories all the way from the pacific ocean to france. it’s a very specific russian territorial claim that dates back to josef stalin and puts their full imperial aims on display
Can you provide a source for Stalin saying that?
“Tsar Alexander made it all the way to Paris”
This quote was recorded by his interpreter, V.M. Berezhkov
From your link:
[Stalin said] “The Russian tsars did many bad things. They plundered and enslaved the people. They waged wars and grabbed territory in the interests of the landowners. But they did do one good thing—they created a huge state that stretches all the way to Kamchatka. We have inherited that state. And for the first time we, the Bolsheviks, have brought together and consolidated this state as a single, indivisible state… for the benefit of the workers”
At the Berlin train station on the eve of the Potsdam Conference in 1945, U.S. Ambassador to the Soviet Union Averell Harriman asked Stalin how it felt.to arrive in the capital of a defeated enemy as a victor. Stalin replied, “Tsar Alexander made it all the way to Paris.”
That is absolutely not a territorial claim, it’s a statement about Russian history. He specifically mentioned the horrors of the tsarist empire
Using historical territories as a basis for modern claims? British and Mongolian empires loom omanously.
