- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
Europe, in its trade dealings with China, needs to act “in a more offensive way” to protect its own interests and those of its companies, [Germany’s] Bundesbank President Joachim Nagel said.
[…]
When it comes to China, let me only say one thing: China needs Europe more than Europe needs China," Nagel, who sits on the ECB’s Governing Council, said.
[…]
We are a strong economy. We are four hundred fifty million people… So we should play the European card in a more offensive way."
Nagel said Europe needed to avoid a trade war with China and should maintain a dialogue but also needed to protect its own markets.
“The point that I would like to say here is that Europe should play the cards in a way that we are more convinced about ourselves, because the most important market for the European is Europe itself,” Nagel told a financial event.
[…]
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I hate Western European exceptionalism and smugness.
The EU has been a struggling empty shell of an economic project, with no vision, no progress.
EU politicians should 閉嘴 (shut up), be humble, and learn from China.
delusional.
we can’t keep up with better chinese products at lower prices and get protective about it. why? idk man… maybe because top-eu manufacturers only went for short term profits and shot themselves in the foot in the long run. e.g. vw and their suv market that us thinning without a plan b for affordable products
stop crying, reareange your businesses. china is not the issue here.
Yeah, who needs SUVs? No one. The problem here aren’t SUVs but the Chinese government, though. Europe has been awakening of late, but it needs to get tougher.
in what sense is the chinese government a big problem compared to the us with whom we try to keep good relations despite the fact they screw us over geopolitically the 1st chance they get? (they can ground ozr f35’s on a whim, nordstream was a thorn in their eyes, they sanction us for trying to be digitally independet etc.)
what did china do? sell cheap ev’s that compete with european manufacturers and they took over the lead in solar because european politicians stopped incentivizing innovation. wow.
Yeah, the U.S. goes in the wrong direction, straight into a dictatorship. China is already there, though. I agree that Europe must be tougher.
in what sense is china a dictatorship? their political system completely differs from western democracies. on a communal level it is highly democractic on a communal level and seems to look out for it´s people in general. i am no huge china fan and have my own issues with it but strictly calling it a “dictatorship” and dismissing it as a valuable partner leaves a sour taste in my mouth - something about europeans with their own problems (rise of fascism and going the same path of billionaires dictating policy like the us) thinking they are the only valid democracy.
I agree, there are a lot of problems in European democracies, far-right and - by now to a lesser extent, far-left - groups try to undermine the rule of law and human right. We must not forget they are supported by the Chinese party-state. It is unsurprising, as China turned to fascist rule, too.
the first article you mentioned just stated “political extremists like china which is bad” from a deeply western viewpoint without any critique other than “the right wingers are pragmatic and the leftists praise the central economy” and then they make a whole case that china influences both extremes on the example of one czech social media guy with little to no influence… IMO the article didn´t really have a point.
the 2nd article is really interesting because now it comes down to the definition of fascism. from my perspective fascism is a faux “grassroots movement” which mobilizes disillusioned workers to strengthen the powers that already oppress them in a pseudo-revolution - the picture of an enemy or outgroup can be used to further strengthen the movement. - the book “blackshirts and reds” by michael parenti really explained how fascism works to me now from this definition china is definetly NOT fascist as it did a lot to lift people out of poverty and enabled mass-class upwards mobility. now all these “4 hallmarks of fascism” seem like made up points. because all western countries check these boxes aswell except for the cult of personality, which has obvious historic reasons.
chinas mass surveillance is an overblown issue which requires more than a sentence to dismiss, the treatment of the uyghurs was framed as a genocide by western intelligence agencies, falun gong members and a german far right covid denier guy. and the hyper-nationalism is just a straight up lie because the official party line is to open the doors to the outside world - be it with inviting western influencers like ishowspeed for propaganda reasons or promoting tourism and business opportunities for westerners.
look at the author of the 2nd article, he really believes in american exceptionalism and has an extreme bias
news about china are riddled with false information, it is important we question all “facts” we get presented
it is important we question all “facts” we get presented
Well, this is so true. Not exclusively, but also for China. Beijing’s mass surveillance of its own citizens (China 1 surveillance camera for every 2 citizens) is a massive problem, as well as the ‘influencers’ covering the genocide in Xinjiang and elsewhere, as you touched it. But there are a lot more reasons. This is why we can easily agree to the linked report, it’s absolutely fair to say that Europe needs to be tougher on China.
I agree—china’s power has gone unchecked for too long. The world must stop treating us as a playground and start recognizing us as a player on the world stage.
The world must stop treating us as a playground and start recognizing us as a player on the world stage.
True. But it’s up to us to change that.
When it comes to China, let me only say one thing: China needs Europe more than Europe needs China," Nagel, who sits on the ECB’s Governing Council, said.
I’m sorry, what? How is this guy so delusional?
Every time we try getting aggressive with China, they just cut exports or raise the prices and we immediately cave in. Because they don’t need us and we need them. For us, China is the sole source of many goods, while for them Europe is just extra money.
Generally, the EU should be more aggressive. However, perhaps not towards a superpower it has no leverage whatsoever with. All this does is hurt both China and us, except it hurts us way more. Stop this brain dead strategy of suicide.
This is precisely why the EU is so weak at the moment. I’m all for a stronger Europe; one that could be a global superpower and dictate its own rules where appropriate and/or necessary. But this is absolutely not how we get there.
Every time we try getting aggressive with China, they just cut exports …
If China can’t sell its overcapacity to the world -and Europe is a huge market - the Chinese government would soon be in big trouble. Beijing’s desperate attempts to redirect goods from the US to the EU and other regions has already been observed in recent months and are very revealing. They can’t even afford ‘to cut exports’ for too long.
A tougher stance is definitely the best and supposedly even the only way for Europe. It’s already late, but better late than never.
If China can’t sell its overcapacity to the world -and Europe is a huge market - the Chinese government would soon be in big trouble.
How so? They’re richer than ever, rapidly getting even richer every year. The government is breaking records in terms of the nation’s support. I’m sure they appreciate the extra income coming from Europe, but that’s all it is - extra cash. They need it in the same way you need a $50 check from the government. Is it nice to get? Of course. Is it in any way necessary to fulfill your needs? You can answer this yourself.
They can’t even afford ‘to cut exports’ for too long.
And yet, that’s precisely what they do all the time, and somehow, their economy cannot stop growing, while Europe’s stagnates or faces a recession.
A tougher stance is definitely the best and supposedly even the only way for Europe. It’s already late, but better late than never.
Absolutely agree here. Europe has been way too submissive for decades. We definitely do need to grow some balls and toughen up. Otherwise we’ll simply continue being exploited, mostly by the American Empire.
Washington has just ordered the Netherlands to completely illegally take over a Chinese chip manufacturing company, threatening them with sanctions otherwise. This has resulted in the company’s employees refusing to work and China cutting exports from the Chinese branch of the company to the EU. We’re losing big on this, China is losing pennies, and the US is probably gaining something. Once again, we’re following the Americans’ orders to our own loss. Meanwhile China is being relatively friendly when unprovoked. Who should we be hostile towards here?
Remember the food that is thrown away. Overcapacity doesn’t matter.
As long as China makes enough money to buy needed external resources, everything is ok for them.
