- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
Europe, in its trade dealings with China, needs to act “in a more offensive way” to protect its own interests and those of its companies, [Germany’s] Bundesbank President Joachim Nagel said.
[…]
When it comes to China, let me only say one thing: China needs Europe more than Europe needs China," Nagel, who sits on the ECB’s Governing Council, said.
[…]
We are a strong economy. We are four hundred fifty million people… So we should play the European card in a more offensive way."
Nagel said Europe needed to avoid a trade war with China and should maintain a dialogue but also needed to protect its own markets.
“The point that I would like to say here is that Europe should play the cards in a way that we are more convinced about ourselves, because the most important market for the European is Europe itself,” Nagel told a financial event.
[…]
in what sense is the chinese government a big problem compared to the us with whom we try to keep good relations despite the fact they screw us over geopolitically the 1st chance they get? (they can ground ozr f35’s on a whim, nordstream was a thorn in their eyes, they sanction us for trying to be digitally independet etc.)
what did china do? sell cheap ev’s that compete with european manufacturers and they took over the lead in solar because european politicians stopped incentivizing innovation. wow.
Yeah, the U.S. goes in the wrong direction, straight into a dictatorship. China is already there, though. I agree that Europe must be tougher.
in what sense is china a dictatorship? their political system completely differs from western democracies. on a communal level it is highly democractic on a communal level and seems to look out for it´s people in general. i am no huge china fan and have my own issues with it but strictly calling it a “dictatorship” and dismissing it as a valuable partner leaves a sour taste in my mouth - something about europeans with their own problems (rise of fascism and going the same path of billionaires dictating policy like the us) thinking they are the only valid democracy.
I agree, there are a lot of problems in European democracies, far-right and - by now to a lesser extent, far-left - groups try to undermine the rule of law and human right. We must not forget they are supported by the Chinese party-state. It is unsurprising, as China turned to fascist rule, too.
the first article you mentioned just stated “political extremists like china which is bad” from a deeply western viewpoint without any critique other than “the right wingers are pragmatic and the leftists praise the central economy” and then they make a whole case that china influences both extremes on the example of one czech social media guy with little to no influence… IMO the article didn´t really have a point.
the 2nd article is really interesting because now it comes down to the definition of fascism. from my perspective fascism is a faux “grassroots movement” which mobilizes disillusioned workers to strengthen the powers that already oppress them in a pseudo-revolution - the picture of an enemy or outgroup can be used to further strengthen the movement. - the book “blackshirts and reds” by michael parenti really explained how fascism works to me now from this definition china is definetly NOT fascist as it did a lot to lift people out of poverty and enabled mass-class upwards mobility. now all these “4 hallmarks of fascism” seem like made up points. because all western countries check these boxes aswell except for the cult of personality, which has obvious historic reasons.
chinas mass surveillance is an overblown issue which requires more than a sentence to dismiss, the treatment of the uyghurs was framed as a genocide by western intelligence agencies, falun gong members and a german far right covid denier guy. and the hyper-nationalism is just a straight up lie because the official party line is to open the doors to the outside world - be it with inviting western influencers like ishowspeed for propaganda reasons or promoting tourism and business opportunities for westerners.
look at the author of the 2nd article, he really believes in american exceptionalism and has an extreme bias
news about china are riddled with false information, it is important we question all “facts” we get presented
Well, this is so true. Not exclusively, but also for China. Beijing’s mass surveillance of its own citizens (China 1 surveillance camera for every 2 citizens) is a massive problem, as well as the ‘influencers’ covering the genocide in Xinjiang and elsewhere, as you touched it. But there are a lot more reasons. This is why we can easily agree to the linked report, it’s absolutely fair to say that Europe needs to be tougher on China.
i think we have 2 distinctly different conclusions from this.
chinas mass surveillance is not even close to what the uk does or what european countries want with palantir and chat control and the so-called ‘genocide’ in xinjiang was only pushed by western far right think tanks.
Yeah, this is exactly the point. China’s total control of the web and the society is far ahead with devastating consequences for the Chinese people and their freedom, and Palantir and ‘chat control’ is supposedly a timid step in this direction. But China is, again, far ahead. We see that in Xinjiang, Tibet, and Inner Mongolia, for example, where several rights groups, personal witnesses, and international organizations provided ample evidence of China genocidal policies.
So, check the ‘facts’ you read! I don’t know where you get your information, but you may search for alternative sources.