Nobody ever accused china of bombing cities and murdering children. You’re thinking of israel.
Genocide can take forms other than bombing and starvation.
Residential school system in Canada is considered a form of genocide on the native population. We dont have to literally bomb them out of existence to be considered a bad thing
i really don’t understand all these people on .ml (who clearly aren’t chinese) bootlicking for china
look, i’m a “communist” as well… i hate capitalism, blah blah blah… you guys are right about so many things. china is great, the west fucking sucks. i 100% agree…
but i don’t understand why it has to extend to, “ALL criticism of china is invalid”… china has a clear objective of unifying the nation and the culture. and that means pushing out the non-han minorities such as the uyghur people.
is this achieved through extreme violence? of course not. that’s barbaric and not-subtle.
china knows how to play the long game. decades if needed. the west doesn’t see anything beyond a 4 year election cycle…
That’s a lot of words to avoid saying “I believe China is committing genocide because they are doing ____”.
You have a friend over there but haven’t said what their experience is. You have said genocide doesn’t have to look like Israel but haven’t specified how it applies to China from your perspective. Make a claim.
it’s a family i know here, who left china due to oppression… nobody said anything about violent genocide.
i really don’t need to type out their whole family situation because why waste my time getting instantly downvoted? you’ve all already decided that talking to uyghurs is fake news…
I mean, it’s just the entire crux of your argument. I’m also not the same person you’ve been talking to. All I did was ask you to make a claim instead of vagueposting about the definition of genocides being pretty wide and getting on a soapbox. It’s hard to have discussions when you refuse to communicate about the topic, but rather delve into meta-commentary as soon as you’re asked for any details that have brought you to your conclusion.
the claim is right there in the OP’s meme… “…china is oppressing uyghurs”. i don’t know why you keep demanding “claims” when it’s right in the meme that i was responding to.
the meme suggests that the only evidence comes from some fucker named adrian, whom i’ve never heard of, and RFA and falun gong.
i merely suggested that first hand accounts from my friends might actually be valid… maybe at least something to think about… but apparently listening to actual uyghur people and talking to my actual family in china is just western propaganda… so discussion is already non-starter
anyway. it was a fun afternoon of earning capitalist value tokens while pretending to add value at work… thanks all for the discussion
I love how you unquoted “evidence” in the original meme. I just wanted to know how the people you know were affected, and every message you send that avoids that screams “I totally have a girlfriend but she lives in another country and she doesn’t like her picture taken, but trust me, she definitely exists”
There is good criticism of China, but the problem with how Xinjiang is portrayed is that it’s the most reactionary, anti-communist people that are pushing the genocide theory the most. They armed seperatists and radicalized them in order to foment a block in the Belt and Road Initiative. The idea that China is pushing out non-Han ethnicities is wrong, China’s NPC has great minority representation, ethnic minorities are well protected, and Uyghur culture is flourishing.
the problem with how Xinjiang is portrayed is that it’s the most reactionary, anti-communist people that are pushing the genocide theory the most.
so just because reactionaries/anti-communists are pushing the narrative to support their own ends makes the issue fake/invalid?
so if neo-nazis started supporting palestinians to push an anti-semitic agenda, that makes their oppression fake/invalid?
The idea that China is pushing out non-Han ethnicities is wrong, China’s NPC has great minority representation, ethnic minorities are well protected, and Uyghur culture is flourishing.
lol, again…100% non-chinese telling us how great it is over there (for non-han minorities). how do i know most of you aren’t even chinese?? ZERO actual chinese people, even the most woke ones, announce their preferred pronouns…
i’d love to see all you “they/them” folks try actually living in china…
btw, not making fun of pronouns… i support… i’m just pointing out the irony…
Neo-Nazis aren’t really supporting Palestinians, and moreover there is ample evidence of Palestinian genocide while there’s very little evidence of a supposed genocide in Xinjiang. The Xinjiang atrocity campaign is being used the same way as Saddam’s supposed WMD, which also had little to no actual evidence.
Secondly, some Chinese do list their pronouns on English sites, but moreover I can support the combatting of western atrocity propaganda while also believing China has a long way to go on LGBTQIA+ rights. I consider myself cis, I list “they” as an alternative because I know some people don’t want to be referred to as “they/them.” I prefer he/him in most cases, but am okay with being referred to as they/them, while others certainly aren’t.
Right now you’re doing the bit where Zionists say queer people shouldn’t support Palestine because groups like Hamas are anti-LGBTQIA+. The wheel of social progress moves faster when not being killed at scale, and we can see improving LGBTQIA+ rights in China over time.
while there’s very little evidence of a supposed genocide in Xinjiang.
again, nobody is saying china is doing an israel genocide on uyghurs… read the original meme post… it says oppression
while also believing China has a long way to go on LGBTQIA+ rights
why do you believe this? i heard that china is amazing at supporting gay/trans people… anything else you heard is just anti-communist western propaganda… you see how that works?
Right now you’re doing the bit where Zionists say queer people shouldn’t support Palestine because groups like Hamas are anti-LGBTQIA+
no, i’m doing the bit where a bunch of woke white people are strangely acting like china has zero credible criticisms… while also strangely admitting that china has a long way to go on LBGTQIA+ rights
Clearly you can see that my point is that some criticism is real and some is not, right? I’m not “strangely” admitting anything, I’m acknowledging real critique while pointing out that some critique is not genuine. There are people saying China is doing to Xinjiang what Israel is doing to Palestine. They are wrong, of course, but acting like they don’t exist is silly.
Critiquing China based on real issues is good. “Critiquing” China based on exaggerations and atrocity propaganda is bad. LGBTQIA+ rights fall into the former category, the overwhelming majority of allegations surrounding Xinjiang fall into the latter. This is in no way contradictory.
“my friends” is not valid evidence of genocide , thousands of pictures of dead children and destroyed cities is
Nobody ever accused china of bombing cities and murdering children. You’re thinking of israel.
Genocide can take forms other than bombing and starvation.
Residential school system in Canada is considered a form of genocide on the native population. We dont have to literally bomb them out of existence to be considered a bad thing
and yet majority of people that accuse china of genocide deny israel doing genocide
Make a claim
i really don’t understand all these people on .ml (who clearly aren’t chinese) bootlicking for china
look, i’m a “communist” as well… i hate capitalism, blah blah blah… you guys are right about so many things. china is great, the west fucking sucks. i 100% agree…
but i don’t understand why it has to extend to, “ALL criticism of china is invalid”… china has a clear objective of unifying the nation and the culture. and that means pushing out the non-han minorities such as the uyghur people.
is this achieved through extreme violence? of course not. that’s barbaric and not-subtle.
china knows how to play the long game. decades if needed. the west doesn’t see anything beyond a 4 year election cycle…
The burden of proof is in you. Make a claim
That’s a lot of words to avoid saying “I believe China is committing genocide because they are doing ____”.
You have a friend over there but haven’t said what their experience is. You have said genocide doesn’t have to look like Israel but haven’t specified how it applies to China from your perspective. Make a claim.
it’s a family i know here, who left china due to oppression… nobody said anything about violent genocide.
i really don’t need to type out their whole family situation because why waste my time getting instantly downvoted? you’ve all already decided that talking to uyghurs is fake news…
I mean, it’s just the entire crux of your argument. I’m also not the same person you’ve been talking to. All I did was ask you to make a claim instead of vagueposting about the definition of genocides being pretty wide and getting on a soapbox. It’s hard to have discussions when you refuse to communicate about the topic, but rather delve into meta-commentary as soon as you’re asked for any details that have brought you to your conclusion.
the claim is right there in the OP’s meme… “…china is oppressing uyghurs”. i don’t know why you keep demanding “claims” when it’s right in the meme that i was responding to.
the meme suggests that the only evidence comes from some fucker named adrian, whom i’ve never heard of, and RFA and falun gong.
i merely suggested that first hand accounts from my friends might actually be valid… maybe at least something to think about… but apparently listening to actual uyghur people and talking to my actual family in china is just western propaganda… so discussion is already non-starter
anyway. it was a fun afternoon of earning capitalist value tokens while pretending to add value at work… thanks all for the discussion
I love how you unquoted “evidence” in the original meme. I just wanted to know how the people you know were affected, and every message you send that avoids that screams “I totally have a girlfriend but she lives in another country and she doesn’t like her picture taken, but trust me, she definitely exists”
There is good criticism of China, but the problem with how Xinjiang is portrayed is that it’s the most reactionary, anti-communist people that are pushing the genocide theory the most. They armed seperatists and radicalized them in order to foment a block in the Belt and Road Initiative. The idea that China is pushing out non-Han ethnicities is wrong, China’s NPC has great minority representation, ethnic minorities are well protected, and Uyghur culture is flourishing.
so just because reactionaries/anti-communists are pushing the narrative to support their own ends makes the issue fake/invalid?
so if neo-nazis started supporting palestinians to push an anti-semitic agenda, that makes their oppression fake/invalid?
lol, again…100% non-chinese telling us how great it is over there (for non-han minorities). how do i know most of you aren’t even chinese?? ZERO actual chinese people, even the most woke ones, announce their preferred pronouns…
i’d love to see all you “they/them” folks try actually living in china…
btw, not making fun of pronouns… i support… i’m just pointing out the irony…
No. Complete lack of evidence that can withstand even the slightest scrutiny makes the issue fake/invalid.
Neo-Nazis aren’t really supporting Palestinians, and moreover there is ample evidence of Palestinian genocide while there’s very little evidence of a supposed genocide in Xinjiang. The Xinjiang atrocity campaign is being used the same way as Saddam’s supposed WMD, which also had little to no actual evidence.
Secondly, some Chinese do list their pronouns on English sites, but moreover I can support the combatting of western atrocity propaganda while also believing China has a long way to go on LGBTQIA+ rights. I consider myself cis, I list “they” as an alternative because I know some people don’t want to be referred to as “they/them.” I prefer he/him in most cases, but am okay with being referred to as they/them, while others certainly aren’t.
Right now you’re doing the bit where Zionists say queer people shouldn’t support Palestine because groups like Hamas are anti-LGBTQIA+. The wheel of social progress moves faster when not being killed at scale, and we can see improving LGBTQIA+ rights in China over time.
again, nobody is saying china is doing an israel genocide on uyghurs… read the original meme post… it says oppression
why do you believe this? i heard that china is amazing at supporting gay/trans people… anything else you heard is just anti-communist western propaganda… you see how that works?
Clearly you can see that my point is that some criticism is real and some is not, right? I’m not “strangely” admitting anything, I’m acknowledging real critique while pointing out that some critique is not genuine. There are people saying China is doing to Xinjiang what Israel is doing to Palestine. They are wrong, of course, but acting like they don’t exist is silly.
Critiquing China based on real issues is good. “Critiquing” China based on exaggerations and atrocity propaganda is bad. LGBTQIA+ rights fall into the former category, the overwhelming majority of allegations surrounding Xinjiang fall into the latter. This is in no way contradictory.