Granted, the part

The globally recommended app by privacy and security experts, Signal, is now being downloaded massively and tops the Danish Google Play Store

is a little ironic, but you gotta push this winning tide and then work from that.

  • Muffi@programming.dev
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    2 days ago

    I am from Denmark. I have spent the last 10 years fighting to get schools and government institutions to switch away from American software.

    What a waste of time, when all it takes is the threat of an imperialist take-over of Greenland to actually get my fellow countrymen to finally listen and act.

    • biofaust@lemmy.world
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      8 hours ago

      Italian in Denmark here.

      I thank you so much for this! I am amazed at the dependence of all facets of social life and information on Meta and Google’s properties.

      I am cut out of my building’s initiatives because I don’t have a Facebook account. There are no events (such as dance events, protests, etc) published anywhere else than on Facebook’s Events.

      When I propose to be contacted on Signal people look at me as if I was an alien.

      You are doing God’s work, as a Christian would say.

        • CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world
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          7 hours ago

          Ignorant feels harsh, technically accurate but harsh. Yes technology permiates our lives but its such a broad term that no one can be fluent in all its aspects and most of us have to have in depth knowledge of at least one part of it to do our day jobs. We can’t expect everyone to have the time to learn about the inner workings of communications infastructure.

        • Wrdlbrmpfd@feddit.org
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          8 hours ago

          Concerning the usability, yes. Otherwise Matrix would be the best option, it can be hosted locally.

        • architect@thelemmy.club
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          6 hours ago

          Why do you think that? The owner of it is alt right and the fascists are using it. Why feel safe on it? Doesn’t make sense.

        • saimen@feddit.org
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          1 day ago

          Problem is if they change to Signal now they are less likely to change again to something “better”.

              • devfuuu@lemmy.world
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                7 hours ago

                They are supreme denialists and try to gaslight people into believing that Foward Security is a thing you don’t need. I may have it installed and the ui is cute enough, but I can’t even consider it hitting close to the level of security Signal employs. It’s basically a toy experiment.

                  • devfuuu@lemmy.world
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                    5 hours ago

                    I went there to read it again and their position changed recently. So it’s not there, but now they claim that a design is planned to include it in the future, maybe, eventually. Which is better than before since they were really trying to tell people with manyyyy arguments why we shouldn’'t need it, which was a completely insane position to have in the world we live in.

              • AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zip
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                20 hours ago

                Is that not just chat over email? I thought it used to be, and some of the language on the site is still kind of suggestive of it, but it does sound kinda different. Maybe I’m confusing it with something else. If it’s still just fancy email, I’m not sure I like that idea since email has so many privacy issues baked in deep.

            • alfredon996@feddit.it
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              1 day ago

              Telegram is still better, while not being ideal, of course. But at least its servers aren’t located in the USA.

              The ideal options are decentralized/p2p, but for now they have very few users (not many less than Signal, to be fair).

                • alfredon996@feddit.it
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                  1 day ago

                  E2E encryption it’s not the only feature that matters. By the way, I am not promoting Telegram, I only mean that relying on US-centric infrastructure is bad because you can be disconnected away at any moment.

              • RepleteLocum@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                1 day ago

                Telegram is worse. There’s only pedos and russians on it, not to mention the french government having full access to the servers.

              • 9bananas@feddit.org
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                1 day ago

                telegram is the absolute wirst when it comes to constant spam from scams and bullshit group chats… it’s an utter cesspool.

      • Vincent@feddit.nl
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        1 day ago

        But at least the US government can’t listen in on your conversations, and if they don’t know your phone number, can’t block your specific communications either.

          • Vincent@feddit.nl
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            11 hours ago

            Well yeah, but if you take into account theoretical vulnerabilities, then nothing is safe, including your self-hosted decentralised server (let alone your conversation partner’s).

          • Noja@sopuli.xyz
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            1 day ago

            You were downvoted because what you posted is completely irrelevant to Signal. The only way to read the messages is to install spyware on your phone.

          • Ofiuco@piefed.ca
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            1 day ago

            It’s the fediverse, signal is sacred and will not be questioned nor criticiced, anyone else who wishes to have a non-US instant messenger gets downvoted to hell.

            Wish I was joking but just look at the other guy who dared to like Telegram.
            It’s basically signal or matrix in here.

            I personally don’t use it, it’s much more suspicious that other messengers get so much flak and signal is defended so fiercely… And it’s also USA based.

            • Pup Biru@aussie.zone
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              19 hours ago

              It’s the fediverse, signal is sacred and will not be questioned nor criticiced

              you can question signal just as much as you want, but you’d better come with actual arguments rather than just conspiracy, because signal has counters to pretty much every claim that non-experts try to make

              signal was built and is run by one of the worlds foremost security researchers and privacy activists

              it uses standard encryption that is used in huge numbers of things. if there were a problem with any part of that, the world would have a much bigger problem than individual communications. the US government does not behave in a way that suggests these algorithms are compromised

              it has been repeatedly audited by 3rd parties

              the fact that it’s US-based is barely worth mentioning… why is that a problem? are you sure it’s not solely a knee-jerk reaction?

              it’s free (so you’re not supporting the US economy), the client - and server, though that’s not important because E2EE - is FOSS (so it’s auditable and extendable by anyone: AFAIK they also ensure repeatable builds), the encryption is basically as good as it gets (they even have various protections for quantum computing), their architecture means they can’t even see metadata like senders… so, again, in this case what are you giving up by having it US-based? perhaps a little bit of soft power, perhaps an acknowledgment that in this 1 case the US produced a good product counter to their governments interests

              the other guy who dared to like Telegram

              because telegram is not for security or privacy conscious people, despite their marketing: they actively muddy the waters and make people less safe

              their encryption is custom, written by mathematicians not cryptographers so doesn’t include features like perfect forward secrecy, replay protection, etc

              and their default chat mode isn’t even e2ee - only secret chats use their custom encryption, and nobody actually uses them!

              there are numerous sources documenting these problems, and plenty more

              it’s okay to like telegram: i like it as a chat app, and i use it for the features it provides… but it’s not okay to say in a privacy and security context that they’re even remotely comparable

                • Pup Biru@aussie.zone
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                  9 hours ago

                  Signal punished their spec and WhatsApp re-implemented it, yes but critically only the messaging parts rather than all the other privacy parts

                  the reasons to switch basically start with WhatsApp is owned by Meta, and given that these things become more important:

                  • WhatsApp is closed source so it’s difficult to confirm if their implement is “correct”
                  • they may have the ability to extract your keys from your device somehow
                  • i’m not sure who is the ultimate key-holder for whatsapp: if it’s like apple, they hold your private keys and thus can decrypt anything they like (different to signal where devices transfer your keys between each other via qr codes etc)
                  • on that last point, i can confirm that to login with whatsapp on the browser just now my process was: enter phone number, type an 8-digit code from my phone… this could be an temporary key of some kind used to e2ee between the devices to transfer my master key or something, but i’m very suspect on this being anything more than plain text verification that meta could man in the middle
                  • whatsapp stores your contacts, and message metadata… that’s all i personally need to avoid it: meta doesn’t need to know who and how often i message people to add to their profile on me

                  meta says whatsapp is secure exactly for this reason: people think “why switch?” when it’s really about the metadata for them… they are experts and building a profile with scraps of metadata

                  writing a secure application is about more than technically rock-solid encryption and protocol

                  • pressanykeynow@lemmy.world
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                    7 hours ago

                    the reasons to switch basically start with WhatsApp is owned by Meta

                    So both are the US companies susceptible to backdoors and other USA shenanigans.

                    WhatsApp is closed source so it’s difficult to confirm if their implement is “correct”

                    Valid point, however I doubt that most(or any) of the people installing Signal now do it from f-droid or alternatives, so for them there’s no difference, they receive whatever Google/Apple give them which may be quite different from what’s in the source code.

                    they may have the ability to extract your keys from your device somehow

                    If they can then Signal can as well, right? Or more likely Google and Apple will. Same for your next points.

                    I mean not using anything Meta is good just because we know Meta is bad. But as I understand it any US company will have to store and provide metadata, logs, etc when the government agencies tell them to. With that context I don’t see much difference between using Signal or WhatsApp apart from the “Meta bad”(which in itself is a valid reason).

              • Vincent@feddit.nl
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                11 hours ago

                signal was built and is run by one of the worlds foremost security researchers and privacy activists

                Small sidenote, but Moxie is no longer running Signal. (He’s doing Confer now.)

            • Saryn@lemmy.world
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              20 hours ago

              Or, or…hear me out in this… Just maybe

              You’re fucking wrong and there is no conspiracy to make you look bad

              Crazy, I know

      • Muffi@programming.dev
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        2 days ago

        True. I was more referring to the fact that nobody has wanted to move away from Meta, Google and Microsoft solutions because of convenience (until now).