- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
French President Emmanuel Macron on Saturday, February 14, urged calm and restraint after the fatal beating of a 23-year-old French youth aligned with the far-right on the sidelines of a conference by a hard-left lawmaker in the southeastern city of Lyon.
The death of the young man – identified only as Quentin – has intensified tensions between France’s far-right and radical left who are both eyeing 2027 presidential elections.
He had been hospitalized in Lyon on Thursday after being attacked while providing what his supporters said was security for a protest against an appearance by hard-left MEP Rima Hassan at the Lyon branch of the Sciences Po university.
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If some of you don’t know this, Macron is surpringly a good “no bullshit” person in international politics, however in terms of internal politics and government issues he’s not that popular.
In other words, he should be in Bruxelles. And he’s be a really solid guy.
If National Rally were in any position of power, this easily could have become France’s Reichstag Fire moment.
The French have seen a lot of political violence during the French revolution. France will create another Napoleon.
Such a tragedy
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Unfortunately, optics are incredibly important to win public opinion. As a radical leftist myself, I have little to no compassion for the man who died ; nonetheless I hope this doesn’t start a pattern.
Many people see these things as entirely vibes-based, so if we don’t look like the good guys, to many people that’s enough to decide we aren’t the good guys.
I think the world needs less radical left and more militant left.
We’ve tried talking for the last 80 years or so. Its not working so well. So maybe we need to bring back the violence that defeated fascism last time.
We need less polarisation. The far left and far right are both wrong because the world is a complex place full of nuance.
Personally I consider myself left of centre, but I also find policies that are absolutely core to the left abhorrent. That means I have voted centre right in the past, or centre depending on the situation.
What is absolutely certain is this kid did not deserve to die and the people that did it should JUSTLY face the full force of the law.
“Even if your sainted grandmother is a republican, they are evil and will burn in hell for all eternity.”
- Mike Malloy
Extreme centrism is also a thing. And it is as bad as the other, and reading your comment you could find yourself in this group.
If you’re going to adopt violence, you have to target the exact right people or you just plunge yourself into a long, dumb spiral of public outrage until whatever the organization originally meant to accomplish is lost in the news cycle of violence. People won’t remember what you represented, only what you did. And you can’t fix that with messaging, it’s just not how it works.
I can name a dozen different iconic seditious or rebellious groups in recent history and for every name read, you will see in your mind’s eye terrorism and bombings and violence, not what that group wanted to accomplish or what their goals were.
I get gnashing teeth reminding people of this fact, but Mussolini was not defeated by a plucky band of rebels who dragged him out of his bunker, he was arrested by his own king and government and handed over the opposition. We still need political action or we’re just embracing mindless chaos, we will need politics to both secure an actual victory and we will need politics to deal with the millions of people who didn’t vote for any of your actions but will still live next to us after.
The man who died was a far right militant, member of a group who regularly descends in the street to beat everyone not looking like their idea of a French.
I don’t think killing people is a solution. But if you think violence is sometimes justified against some people, this dude was as close as it gets.
“The means are the end,” to quote a line from The Dispossessed by Ursula K Le Guin (anarchist and legendary fiction writer). While I agree that we need most parts if the left for revolution (Andor does a decent job demonstrating this), I’m highly skeptical that lasting change can be built on revolution that is primarily enacted through violence.
revolution that is primarily enacted through violence
How many incidents does it take before it reaches “primarily”? Because this is one incident.
Mmh… I think that tribal identification is a basic problem (the us vs their conundrum): the danger is obvious, admit this general simplified view to conform the “only two collectives” and judge them by choiced individuals and not by the root ideas and what they bring, if humans cannot overcome this instinct they will remain ants that follow queens for no good reason…
The problem of course is that, bad as it may be to think this way, people (including me !) absolutely do think this way by default, unless consciously making the effort not to.
Maybe this can be deconstructed, but until then we need a good dose of “Realpolitik” that takes those biases into account, at least if we want to achieve anything concrete.
There is some truth to the “us vs them” between elites and the people, and the current elite is (somehow) very good at making a big part of the people they oppress think that “actually, you’re part of the elite too !”
Nazi lives don’t matter
Excuse me, but where does it say anything about nazi?
Not agreeing with the comment but, far-right = Nazi.
Tho I don’t think saying they deserve to die is true, those people have just fallen in the lies of the far right parties and are scared.
This is a war, there may be good people on the other side that were tricked into joining, but they are still on the other side.
those people have just fallen in the lies of the far right parties and are scared.
No, I’m done trying to find novel or justifiable reasons for people to support Nazis. The most likely answer is that there’s something in it for them. Not because they’re scared, but because they believe that naziism will get them something (power, control, money, etc) that they wouldn’t otherwise have. It’s an entirely self-serving ideology, so why would anyone follow it for reasons that aren’t rooted in selfishness?
Self-serving, and ultimately self-destructive.
I believe you’re confusing between far-right leaders and followers…
What do you call a low-level Nazi without any leadership responsibilities?
A Nazi.
Well now they have good reason to be scared.
Everyone is calling people far right nowadays just because they think the boarders shouldnt be kept open to anyone. This is why I ask, because the far left is throwing the word around like Nothin.
This dude was member of a far right collective who regularly would roam the streets of Lyon to beat up almost to death every individual they found not looking like their idea of a French person. This is very well known and documented in French media.
Stunning ignorance on display here.
So are they translating the Horst Wessel Song into French yet?
Why is it called “far-right” and then “radical left”
Aka the “Tubular Left” aka the “Cowabunga Left” aka the “Gnarly Left”
Michaelangelo is part of the Cowabunga left.
also to claim that “the radical left is eyeing 2027 presidential elections” is pretty wild. no radical leftists will be winning any election, sadly.
One is normalized and one is not
I don’t think I’ve heard of “radical left” outside of the US? In Europe I only recall “far left” and “far right”
In France the literal translation would be “extreme right” and “extreme left”.
Because the left is so dope!
It’s not often I’m able to read things in a voice other than my own, but I read this one as Jason Mendoza from The Good Place and it was perfect.
Jason figured it out? Jason? Well, this is a new low. Yeah, this one hurts.
radical /ˈradɪkl/ adjective adjective: radical 1. (especially of change or action) relating to or affecting the fundamental nature of something; far-reaching or thorough. "a radical overhaul of the existing regulatory framework" 2. advocating or based on thorough or complete political or social change; representing or supporting an extreme or progressive section of a political party. noun noun: radical; plural noun: radicals 1. a person who advocates thorough or complete political or social change, or a member of a political party or section of a party pursuing such aims.Radical change is literally the goal.
Denotation ignores connotation, and in the US, “radical left” has specific meaning, especially to nazis.
America has no concept of “radical left”. I can suggest something mild and end up being called a communist.
That’s radical dude. That’s rad.
Radical has always been progressive in america. Right out of the civil rights movement co-opted by hippies.
If you are backing down to the nazis and letting them change the meaning of words I am going to call you a weak dog.
Fuck being calm. Rightwingers keep assaulting normies and our own, because they had suffered no consequences. We should change that, forever. It is easy to be conservative, when you don’t pay for the wrongs you commit.
Nazi lives don’t matter.
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If Nazis are doing Nazi things. Yes.
You don’t want to be arbitrarily labeled a Nazi and punched for no reason.
If we need to be prepare for collective self-defense, killing violence is the field of the far right. I’m not saying “it’s wrong”, I’m saying that we will lose. Our collectives are made around care and support, their collectives prepare for war an terror
“Hatred that kills has no place in our country” - Man trying to stop hateful people who want to kill from facing consequences of their actions.
The paradox of hatred of hatred.
We’re experiencing a wave of racist attacks and murders and the only thing they talk about is the attack where a fascist was killed.
We don’t even know exactly what happened yet, most of the noise is coming from Nemesis another fascist “feminist” group.Coincidentally, our biggest leftist party was unilaterally labelled “far left” by our ministry of the interior a few days ago. (Le monde used hard left in the article, legally they are a generic leftist party)
Coincidentally also, mayoral elections are in about 4 weeks, with an uptick from said party.
Nothing to see here, France is definitely not sliding towards trumpism and fascism at a blinding speed.
From what I gather there was a group clash of 20+ people and the nazi dudes ran away leaving 1 behind who just got clobbered.
It was right extremists “counter protesting” and the dead guy seems like a professional agitator providing “security service” to right extremists.
Tl;dr: they fucked around and found out.
I forget, what is the only good nazi…?
It rhymes with shed I think
The only good nazi is a sled nazi? Crikey, I wish they’d all just die!
…
Hey, wait a minute!!!
Von Braun? No, that isn’t it.
