Plenty of reasons to ask others to risk their lives without being willing to risk your own.
At the most basic level, that’s how specializations work: do you whip out your own drill when your tooth hurts? Or do you ask someone with the means and expertise to get the job done to do it for you?
If you’re a US tax payer, then you’re actively paying a shit ton of people to risk their lives on your behalf. All of those people swore an oath to defend the Constitution from all threats foreign and domestic - they are literally oath bound to engage Donald Trump the same way they do any other enemy of the US. Why shouldn’t we ask those people to do their fucking job?
The 2nd Amendment is a last-ditch effort kind of thing, but the longer we get nothing but crickets from the previous paragraph the more relevant it becomes. Fortunately (in this very specific context at least) the US is stuffed with absolute enthusiasts for the 2nd Amendment - why condemn someone for asking one of those people to act on their passion? These fuckers’ wet dream is to swoop in with their trusty ol’ boom stick and make themselves a national hero by slaying a home-grown tyrant. So go on, Cletus: make us proud ya wraskly ol’ cowboy!
In any case, we have a fuck ton of people either obligated or enthused to be the one to single-handedly step up and solve the Trump problem. As someone who’s neither obligated nor enthused, I don’t see any issue with calling on either of those two crowds to put their money where their mouth is, knowing full well that I’m not personally willing to risk my own life or freedom.
I wasn’t talking about asking others to risk their lives without risking your own though, I specifically said ‘especially keen’, as in eager to sacrifice others for their own enjoyment (or whatever.)
As a way of calling out the hypocrisy of the people who claim to be all gung-ho to stamp out tyranny from behind the barrel of a gun I have no issue with it, but ‘why aren’t you sacrificing yourself to satisfy my vicarious moral outrage’ is a bit fucking rich coming from someone who isn’t also lining up to do the same thing. One might even call that a kind of hypocrisy too.
That’s not what the previous poster said though, nor is that what ‘keen’ means.
I’m especially keen for someone to step up and do the deed, but that has nothing to do with my enjoyment, and goes way beyond just the morality of what’s happening (although that part of the situation is also fucked). But no, my country is under attack, and I want that attack to stop. And in every thread like this one where we express frustration with the people whose job is to stop the attack just standing idle and letting it happen; some jackass always chimes in with “well why don’t you do it??” as though it’s hypocritical to tell people to do their job. It’s not.
You know what, I think maybe I was a little overzealous in my reading of that person’s comment. I just went and reread it and realized there’s not a lot there, so I was probably assuming intent or meaning that may or may not have been there. My bad.
You might be shocked to learn that other countries exist and that the internet works in those countries and that your joke of a fucking constitution doesn’t apply there.
And you might likewise be shocked to learn that non-Americans don’t have a lock on the understanding of how maps work, or that the idea of hurling yourself pointlessly at a professional army/police force is just as unappealing here as it is in any of those countries. It’s easy to say ‘Someone should do something’ when you’re not the one who is going to be at risk in the doing, isn’t it? But I’m sure wherever you’re from is perfect, and even if it’s not there’s no reason to worry because others will no doubt be lining up to sacrifice themselves to satisfy your vicarious moral outrage so that you don’t have to get your own hands dirty.
Or, and hear me out, the country that built itself in part on being prepared to meet tyranny with force is the one who ought to actually meet tyranny with force when the time comes. Other countries, which did not do this, have every right to call out hypocrisy and cowardice for what it is, especially after decades of watching the cowards be cowardly.
And no, my country is far from perfect. Surely you see how irrelevant that is to this discussion.
UPDATE: How nice! You understood me after all. You also assumed some facts not in evidence, but in a discussion such as this, that’s likely to happen. I’m not “keen”, I’m merely fucking exhausted.
As a way of calling out the hypocrisy of the people who claim to be all gung-ho to stamp out tyranny from behind the barrel of a gun I have no issue with it […] https://lemmy.world/comment/16821307
That country doesn’t exist anymore, and it hasn’t in generations. Anyone who believes otherwise has been drinking a bit too much of the kool-aid. What we have left is a bunch of rednecks who trot out that line about tyranny to justify holding onto their guns, and otherwise a bunch of fat, happy people who have little to no real idea about what’s going on at home, much less around the world.
Mind you, as you pointed out in my comment elsewhere, I agree that it’s hypocrisy and cowardice, but that doesn’t mean I’m okay with expecting people to sacrifice themselves (especially when you’re not willing to put yourself on the line too) for some heavily-propagandized patriotic ideal that is pure fabrication at this point. Especially when the reality is that tyranny has been winning here for a long time and most people seem fine with it as long as things aren’t too uncomfortable for them (which amounts to: they get to drive their big stupid SUVs and watch football and pretend that they’re temporarily-embarrassed millionaires.) The idea of ‘rugged individualism’ has been drilled into this country’s head for at least the last 40 years I’ve been paying attention to politics, not because it comes from the core of our national identity, but because it divides us and hampers efforts to engender class consciousness.
What I’m trying to do here is thread the needle: yes there is hypocrisy and it should be called out, but, as the rest of the sentence you quoted says, it’s also a little bit hypocritical to expect others to do what you aren’t here doing too. I understand the frustration non-Americans feel at the direction this country is going and the implications it has for them, and trust me when I say that some of us feel the same way too. But I’m a disabled man in my 50s, I’m more useful on the information/ideas/inspiration side of things than on the front line.
You first. Unless there’s some reason you’re keen for others to risk their lives but not your own.
Plenty of reasons to ask others to risk their lives without being willing to risk your own.
At the most basic level, that’s how specializations work: do you whip out your own drill when your tooth hurts? Or do you ask someone with the means and expertise to get the job done to do it for you?
If you’re a US tax payer, then you’re actively paying a shit ton of people to risk their lives on your behalf. All of those people swore an oath to defend the Constitution from all threats foreign and domestic - they are literally oath bound to engage Donald Trump the same way they do any other enemy of the US. Why shouldn’t we ask those people to do their fucking job?
The 2nd Amendment is a last-ditch effort kind of thing, but the longer we get nothing but crickets from the previous paragraph the more relevant it becomes. Fortunately (in this very specific context at least) the US is stuffed with absolute enthusiasts for the 2nd Amendment - why condemn someone for asking one of those people to act on their passion? These fuckers’ wet dream is to swoop in with their trusty ol’ boom stick and make themselves a national hero by slaying a home-grown tyrant. So go on, Cletus: make us proud ya wraskly ol’ cowboy!
In any case, we have a fuck ton of people either obligated or enthused to be the one to single-handedly step up and solve the Trump problem. As someone who’s neither obligated nor enthused, I don’t see any issue with calling on either of those two crowds to put their money where their mouth is, knowing full well that I’m not personally willing to risk my own life or freedom.
I wasn’t talking about asking others to risk their lives without risking your own though, I specifically said ‘especially keen’, as in eager to sacrifice others for their own enjoyment (or whatever.)
As a way of calling out the hypocrisy of the people who claim to be all gung-ho to stamp out tyranny from behind the barrel of a gun I have no issue with it, but ‘why aren’t you sacrificing yourself to satisfy my vicarious moral outrage’ is a bit fucking rich coming from someone who isn’t also lining up to do the same thing. One might even call that a kind of hypocrisy too.
That’s not what the previous poster said though, nor is that what ‘keen’ means.
I’m especially keen for someone to step up and do the deed, but that has nothing to do with my enjoyment, and goes way beyond just the morality of what’s happening (although that part of the situation is also fucked). But no, my country is under attack, and I want that attack to stop. And in every thread like this one where we express frustration with the people whose job is to stop the attack just standing idle and letting it happen; some jackass always chimes in with “well why don’t you do it??” as though it’s hypocritical to tell people to do their job. It’s not.
You know what, I think maybe I was a little overzealous in my reading of that person’s comment. I just went and reread it and realized there’s not a lot there, so I was probably assuming intent or meaning that may or may not have been there. My bad.
Easy to assume malice when we’re surrounded by it irl. I do that shit all the time too… we’re all just fed up and exhausted.
You might be shocked to learn that other countries exist and that the internet works in those countries and that your joke of a fucking constitution doesn’t apply there.
Hint: I live in such a country.
And you might likewise be shocked to learn that non-Americans don’t have a lock on the understanding of how maps work, or that the idea of hurling yourself pointlessly at a professional army/police force is just as unappealing here as it is in any of those countries. It’s easy to say ‘Someone should do something’ when you’re not the one who is going to be at risk in the doing, isn’t it? But I’m sure wherever you’re from is perfect, and even if it’s not there’s no reason to worry because others will no doubt be lining up to sacrifice themselves to satisfy your vicarious moral outrage so that you don’t have to get your own hands dirty.
Or, and hear me out, the country that built itself in part on being prepared to meet tyranny with force is the one who ought to actually meet tyranny with force when the time comes. Other countries, which did not do this, have every right to call out hypocrisy and cowardice for what it is, especially after decades of watching the cowards be cowardly.
And no, my country is far from perfect. Surely you see how irrelevant that is to this discussion.
UPDATE: How nice! You understood me after all. You also assumed some facts not in evidence, but in a discussion such as this, that’s likely to happen. I’m not “keen”, I’m merely fucking exhausted.
That country doesn’t exist anymore, and it hasn’t in generations. Anyone who believes otherwise has been drinking a bit too much of the kool-aid. What we have left is a bunch of rednecks who trot out that line about tyranny to justify holding onto their guns, and otherwise a bunch of fat, happy people who have little to no real idea about what’s going on at home, much less around the world.
Mind you, as you pointed out in my comment elsewhere, I agree that it’s hypocrisy and cowardice, but that doesn’t mean I’m okay with expecting people to sacrifice themselves (especially when you’re not willing to put yourself on the line too) for some heavily-propagandized patriotic ideal that is pure fabrication at this point. Especially when the reality is that tyranny has been winning here for a long time and most people seem fine with it as long as things aren’t too uncomfortable for them (which amounts to: they get to drive their big stupid SUVs and watch football and pretend that they’re temporarily-embarrassed millionaires.) The idea of ‘rugged individualism’ has been drilled into this country’s head for at least the last 40 years I’ve been paying attention to politics, not because it comes from the core of our national identity, but because it divides us and hampers efforts to engender class consciousness.
What I’m trying to do here is thread the needle: yes there is hypocrisy and it should be called out, but, as the rest of the sentence you quoted says, it’s also a little bit hypocritical to expect others to do what you aren’t here doing too. I understand the frustration non-Americans feel at the direction this country is going and the implications it has for them, and trust me when I say that some of us feel the same way too. But I’m a disabled man in my 50s, I’m more useful on the information/ideas/inspiration side of things than on the front line.
Me too, man, me fuckin’ too.
I feel you. Let’s be exhausted together. Cheers.