Quote:

If your first instinct as a westerner is to criticize and lecture 3rd world communist movements, instead of learning from their successes, then you have internalized the patronizing arrogance of the colonial system you claim to oppose.

  • Hlodwig@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    “Successes”?

    Most of them are 3rd world countries because of these movements…

    The few who succeeded only use “communism” as label but are aggressively balls deep into capitalism like China.

    • Dessalines@lemmy.mlOP
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      3 days ago

      Most of them are 3rd world countries because of these movements…

      There’s far too many of these to list, but lets take Vietnam and the DPRK as examples:

      • Between 1963 and 1973, The US dropped ~388,000 tons of napalm bombs in vietnam, compared to 32,357 tons used over three years in the Korean War, and 16,500 tons dropped on Japan in 1945. US also sprayed over 5 million acres with herbicide, in Operation Ranch Hand, in a 10 year campaign to deprive the vietnamese of food and vegetation cover.
      • US dropped large amounts of Agent Orange, an herbicide developed by monsanto and dow chemical for the department of defense, in vietnam. Its use, in particular the contaminant dioxin, causes multiple health problems, including cleft palate, mental disabilities, hernias, still births, poisoned breast milk, and extra fingers and toes, as well as destroying local species of plants and animals. The Red Cross of Vietnam estimates that up to 1 million people are disabled or have health problems due to Agent Orange.1, 2
      • US Troops killed between 347 and 504 unarmed civilians, including women, children, and infants, in South Vietnam on March, 1968, in the My Lai Massacre. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated. Soldiers set fire to huts, waiting for civilians to come out so they could shoot them. For 30 years, the three US servicemen who tried to halt the massacre and rescue the hiding civilians were shunned and denounced as traitors, even by congressmen. 1
      • In 1967, the CIA helped South Vietnamese agents identify and then murder alleged Viet Cong leaders operating in villages, in the Phoenix Program. By 1972, Phoenix operatives had executed between 26,000 and 41,000 suspected NLF operatives, informants and supporters.1

      Vietnam and the DPRK are absolutely success stories, for breaking their colonial chains, and defeating the most powerful and evil empire in history.

      Alse China is not a capitalist country, its a mixed economy with the planned socialist sector predominant, and the communist party standing above the political system.

      • Hlodwig@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        FYI i am currently working in Vietnam. Let me be clear: its a tourism country, corrupted and social programs are a joke compared to Europe… China is one of the worst countries in distribution of wealth. The communist country is a capitalist mafia ruling the country (and the party itself).

        But yeah, i do agree, US is a dickhead country.

        Communism is not, never was and will never be about socialism.

        Like seriously, guess which country (the state itself) is spending the most of its GDP in social help? Not even the first one, look at the top ten. Guess what? None of them are communist countries or even had communist at the head of the state during their history…

        • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.ml
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          3 days ago

          Europe/US have social programs because they plundered other countries and continue to do so through financial mechanisms, which they built with plundered wealth, it’s idiotic to make this comparison.

          • IHave69XiBucks@lemmygrad.ml
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            3 days ago

            And its not even accurate. This person you replied to is taking a very narrow view of social programs to mean direct government handouts. All communist nations are still in development stages and most of their social spending goes towards building vital infrastructure, and helping communities become self sufficient and independent. In the Nordic countries a poor village may be given a cash handout to buy food for example, but in China a poor village will be provided with skills and resources to support themselves indefinitely. This is how China raises people out of poverty permanently while European social programs simply put a bandaid on the problem.

    • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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      3 days ago

      Most of them are 3rd world countries because of these movements…

      Lol. Name one country that went from first world to third world because of communist movements.

      • Hlodwig@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        I dont oppose colonialism. Its anti-colonialism that have created the worst blood thirsty and arrogant country in the world with its Uber capitalistic ideology: The US… Should have the “US” remained into UK colonies, we would have a better and more peaceful world right now. Same could be sayed about Israël and China… Hmmm… I see a pattern here… One common things between these… UK!

        • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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          3 days ago

          I dont oppose colonialism. Its anti-colonialism that have created the worst blood thirsty and arrogant country

          That’s insane. The supremacy and dehumanization here is crazy

        • Kras Mazov@lemmygrad.ml
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          3 days ago

          What the actual fuck am I reading? I have never been exposed to such pungent liberal brain rot in my life as I have reading your comments in this thread.

        • Dessalines@lemmy.mlOP
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          3 days ago

          The US was not an anti-colonial country; it was a british settler garrison that broke away in order to conquer the continent unhindered by British treaties with native peoples. Westward genocidal expansion and the theft of land were the goals.

          The actual anti-colonialists in the revolutionary war (the indigenous peoples), rightly sided with the British in that conflict. Unfortunately their loss resulted in the decimation and near-genocide of hundreds of tribes. Sun-yat-sen and Ho Chi Minh and other revolutionaries were rightly scared that their countries would suffer the same fate.

          • edel@lemmy.ml
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            3 days ago

            I was aware of the atrocities and agreement violations, but not that perspective that colonials wanted to get free from any agreements the British did with the natives… Is that a common knowledge in the academia, disputed or a minority one? It is not to discredit it at all the idea, just to genuinely know its status at university level?

            • Dessalines@lemmy.mlOP
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              3 days ago

              I believe they have noted it, but they consider it more minor and less important than Marxist historians do.

              Interestingly just like the british, the US itself went through various phases of disputes with its own settler frontier terrorists that it empowered, when it wanted to do the conquering in a more “orderly” manner (although the goal never changed). A lot of these are chronicled in Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz - an indigenous people’s history of the US.

              • edel@lemmy.ml
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                3 days ago

                Thanks for the info and all references you do in Lemmy. I don´t consider myself with a similar ideology as you, but indeed I am learning lots of info from your posts.

        • besbin@lemmy.ml
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          3 days ago

          I dont oppose colonialism

          Oh! So you are just a Western colonist who spread the patronizing arrogance propaganda your “leftist” westerner compatriots are slopping up. The wall is that way, go face it!

    • vfreire85@lemmy.ml
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      3 days ago

      Most of them are 3rd world countries because of these movements…

      with perhaps the exception of south korea and with some good will taiwan, not a single capitalist country reached the so called “developed” status coming from underdeveloped. all of those who did received a downpour of american taxpayer money.