I’m afraid the rot has spread much farther than that. Yes, without a violent upheaval of some sort, the U.S. is fucked but the problem had long since broken containment…
In the Borderlands in-game universe, there’s references to historical “corporate wars”, when the corporations seized political power and promptly began to duke it out to see who was going to be on top of the pile. At least that’s how I imagine it in my head. But fuck if it doesn’t look like that’s the most likely future coming our way.
Never forget, it was Taco Bell that won the Franchise Wars.
I think the United States as we knew it is dying. I feel no kinship with the MAGA nor the Epstein Class, my desire to be kind and fair towards that lot has long since evaporated. Odds are, many folks in Tennessee and Minneapolis feel the same.
I think the United States as we knew it is dying
I grew up in the US south.
This IS the US as I’ve known it.
The rest of the country got complacent about the people that supported the splitoff faction that wanted to own people as backwoods hicks and not as a viable threat despite them infesting many of the states that literally sent men to die to stop them. Laughed when they said “The south will rise again” despite them having an outsized power in politics and when called out were nice when they said “It’s heritage, not hate.”
They were ready to arrest those who went against the president during Bush Jr era. Nixon welcomed them into the fold after LBJ pissed off the Dixiecrats by signing in the Civil Rights Acts and every Republican since, just as the Democrats did before. The country never finished the job and now the house is infested.
The United States as those of us who read books knew:
- https://archive.org/details/DemocracyForTheFew16147062951821
- https://files.libcom.org/files/A People's History of the Unite - Howard Zinn.pdf
- https://www.bloomsbury.com/ca/rogue-state-9781350362253
- https://chipublib.bibliocommons.com/v2/record/S126C2462237
- https://www.michael-parenti.org/book-inventing-reality
- https://archive.org/details/pdfy-q0ULBH2DJICRS3Vg
- https://november8ph.ca/psychological-warfare-in-the-strategy-of-imperialism-v-l-artemov
- https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/1958-america-as-overlord
I think the people in power will make sure they do everything they can to spin the narrative to make sure that we are divided and more so that Trump’s supporters continue believing he has their interests in mind.
More ranting...
They (the rich and complicit) will always make us (working people) out to be the enemy just as how media has continued to make China and Russia the enemy of the world–when clearly, and how it’s been made so evidently clear, the US is just as bad. Committing war crimes in Venezuela? Supporting Isreal-led genocide? Really, it’s the people in power at each of these “super powers” that are corrupt and deserve to be removed.
Why the hell did the guy from El Salvador kiss Trump’s ass for the mega prison? Obviously corrupt/collusion happening there. They’re so stuck up their own ass that they can’t see beyond their fantasy. They literally have a god complex and actively believe they can rule the world.
It’s these people that should be removed, not us. We did nothing wrong, but they insist that we should be deported? Put in jail? Killed by pawns like I.C.E.? Killed on a boat? Killed by racist shitheads?
All we have to do is march across DC and force them to resign. Why can we waste so much time “going on vacation” and doing other mundane things like joining competitions but we can’t all just in one fell swoop march at the capitol? The news and politicians painted a bad picture about it but at least the misguided Trump supporters had the balls to DO something about it. Even though they were doing so in bad faith and on the wrong basis, they WENT there.
Based on Trump’s actions in his term and the meek inaction of the supposed only other party (that don’t want to support ppl like Mamdani), I have no faith that anything significant will change even if somehow Trump is removed. Everything happening now is because people don’t want to make change happen. The corrupt 1% like Trump want to keep us enslaved and to keep inequality alive.
Instead of playing chicken, waiting for some miracle to save us from this occupation of corrupt leaders, we the people should be taking action to remove them. Fuck the constitution and the state. History has shown the only real way to take out dumbasses in power but we’re all afraid to do anything about it. Even a soft revolt like leaking company secrets, trade secrets, and anything that would actually cause a stir is asking for too much apparently. Can’t even fucking hack the US to get Epstein files? Seriously? FFS
The Democrats so rarely have full control of the executive and legislative branches, and when they do it is by such slim margins that the most right-leaning Democrat has the whole thing by the balls.
Looks at Obama’s Presidency: Democrats had a single vote margin in the House for only 41 days. That single vote was an Independent (Joe Lieberman). We would have had single payer health care if not for him. What we got disappointing but it was a lot better than nothing. Outside of those 41 days everything had to be a compromise with the Republicans.
I think we need to stop the “both sides are the same” stuff until we’ve actually given the Democrats a big margin in both houses for an extended period so that we give the left leaning members an opportunity to get some things moving.
The rule for needing 60 votes is set by a vote of 50.
I think we need to stop the “both sides are the same” stuff until we’ve actually given the Democrats a big margin in both houses for an extended period
Are you thinking on the scale of hundreds of years? To get back to FDR…?
Problem is that waiting, hoping and praying for a Democrat super majority is the exact fallacy they want you to believe. “Put down those pitchforks and torches, you just gotta wait until the good guys win the presidential election, the house, the Senate, the DOJ, AND they aren’t a conservative in disguise that vetos or votes against whatever the Democrats are currently working towards”
American politics is kayfabe. If it hadn’t been Lieberman, it would’ve just been someone else.
You aren’t the only one, this has been the rhetoric from the far right for over a decade now. The “Boogaloo Boys” were named for what they forsaw as “Civil War 2: Electric Boogaloo”. They gained notoriety during Trump’s first term, and later rebranded/forked into the Proud Boys. Now you don’t hear about any of them as much because they’re all hired as ICE agents, military, or working for Hegseth at the Pentagon.
The thing to recognize is, while we’re all flirting with the idea that maybe, if we’re not careful, we might see a civil war in the US’ future, the Trump administration is talking and behaving like we’re already in phase 1: determining allegiances and positioning forces.
The trump administration has a lot of factions involved with a lot of different long-term goals, but right now their common goal is to dismantle the US, and they are currently on track. If at some point one or more states decide the only way to put a stop to unconstitutional federal action is through force, they’ll use the military to “keep the peace”. But that will be the tipping point, and they’ve been preparing for a while…
What leads you to the belief that the elite have a common goal of dismantling the US?
First off, I’m not a fan of the fuzzy term “elite”, but I’ll assume we both know what that refers to.
People think the rich just like to get richer, that Musk and Bezos are competing to have the biggest number in their bank account. But no, they have no interest in “USD”, they don’t care about being crowned “richest person on the playground”, they want to own the playground. They don’t want to be confined by some government’s laws. After a certain point, the only reason to keep accruing wealth is to one day become the government and write your own laws. To me, that goal IS what makes someone “elite”. Conversely, a wealthy person who welcomes high taxes on the rich because it makes the society around them better is still wealthy, but not “elite”.
The elite are always looking for a route to absolute power, and they all see the Trump administration as an opening and are all jumping at it. The only thing they have in common is they want the US govt to be weakened beyond repair, but where they differ is they all want to be the one to take its place (or retain a position of influence like Little Finger).
Got it. We generally agree on the elite motivation. But I think we disagree on government.
For me, bourgeois government is the structure of collaboration between and among the elite, not a separate entity. So I don’t think Musk wants to dismantle the US government, he is playing the game between and among other elites and the field of play is the government that represents the collaboration. In so far as the government limits the power of the elite, it generally does so with the consent of the elite. The problem is that the laws remain even though the state of play changes. The system designed by and for the robber barons of the gilded age didn’t work for the entrepreneurial 1950s and the system of the 1950s didn’t work for the financial transformation of the 1980s and the regulation of the 1980s didn’t work for the tech revolution. None of these were dismantlings of the US but reformations of the system from the old state made by the old elites for the old conditions into a new state by the new elites for the new conditions.
They fundamentally want the US to continue. It gives them a military, a way to repress the masses, access to massive natural resources, a reliable money spigot, and dominating power globally. They don’t want to dismantle it. They just need to reconfigure the machine collaboratively to maximize their power.
The difference in what we’re saying is semantic.
They fundamentally want the US to continue
If this means a government “of the people, for the people, by the people” that maintains a monopoly on violence to ensure no one is above the law/Constitution, then I disagree.
If this means a puppet state that the “elite” holds oligarchal control over, but maintain whatever facade of democracy they need to, then I agree. But I would not call that the US govt. You could say that because they call it the “US Govt” it’s still the US govt, and you could say that because they call it the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, it’s a democratic republic. But I would disagree on both points.
Yeah obviously they’re not going to personally crown themselves as supreme ruler on a towering citadel constructed where the whitehouse once stood like a caricature of a villain. But if the structure of “government” that we end up with is completely powerless against them, then it’s objectively not the US anymore; it’s just the “elite”, the govt is whatever they say, they are the govt, wealth only flows wherever they say it’s allowed to in order to maintain power.
And that’s always their goal, to become the govt, that’s what I mean.
It’s always been an oligarchy. At no point were the masses in charge of the US. It was founded by rich, landed gentry from Europe leading the common man to battle under the banner of liberal values, but they formed the entire government to be by of and for the land owners. They even gave MORE power to land owners who also owned people. That’s how committed they were to oligarchy from the beginning. It’s always been a structure by which the elite manage their affairs including how best to prevent a revolt by the masses.
The US has always been a project of the elite; US democracy was only ever a facade.
Revolution is necessary, because the bourgeois state cannot be dismantled and a proletarian state put in place via peaceful means.
I think you’re probably right, but I do worry about any violence that would ensue . . .
Violence is an unfortunate necessity when pacifism ensures loss.
If they thought we could vote our way into socialism, they wouldn’t let us vote.
Definitely true!
Hence the supreme court decision and the mad rush to gerrymander the fuck out of every state they can.
The DNC isn’t socialist though, it’s just two factions of capitalists duking it out.
While that’s true, I do think that neither of those camps is willing to so much as slide back into a welfare state (even with extra imperialism on the side). The DNC doesn’t want any more Mamdanis (even though he’s a socdem at best), and if they think this’ll prevent that, they’ll let it happen, no matter how much they claim to oppose it. If there were any possibility of an actual socialist being elected, we’d see way worse than this.
Agreed! I actually think the current factional war within the DNC might make room for a third party.
I think you may be right. I just hope we can get them to move left instead of right. Nate Bear’s recent post really gave me pause, because I know a lot of people who want to maintain their treats above all else. I want to have some faith in humanity, but we’re definitely going to have our work cut out for us, I think.
I won’t hold out for the DNC moving left. Entryism doesn’t seem to be a valid approach.
☭ 🫡
At this rate, yeah.
I mean, that’s how America was originally founded. We got sick of Imperial Britain’s shit, fought them to get the fuck away from us. Then, when critical ideals came ahead about slavery, we had our civil war. We definitely need another, but the problem is, with how the world has changed.
Because, it’ll be very bloody simply because one side will have all of the guns and ammunition (Government, police, military .etc) and the opposing side would only have numbers. In either case, it would send a very impactful and long-standing message about what happens when things are left unchecked for too long.
I don’t think Democrats are that interested in fixing or helping things anymore, they have their own agendas, disguised in the form of progressive measures. They helped fund ICE earlier this year. They didn’t fight hard enough to prevent any measures Trump and Republicans have taken that has undone what progress we have done.
So, if shedding blood has to be the answer to make anyone see or realize what really needs to be done, then that’s what it is going to take.
You should really rethink the American Revolution. The crown was a restraining force on the colonists’ genocidal drive Westward, and legal cases were proceeding that were lying the groundwork to end chattel slavery. Both of these things, coupled with the massive economic potential of North America that was being subordinated to London’s financiers and the crowns taxation all led to the American Revolution. It was first and foremost a drive for unfettered greed and unfettered dominance.
The Civil War was not about ideals. It was about economics. The North saw much larger profits in industrializing compared the cash cropping of the South. Cash cropping meant remaining subordinated to London, primarily. The cotton from the plantations were raw materials. It was London that turned them into high fashion. Essentially, what we see today in overexploited nations where the people are employed in the lowest rung of the value chain like cobalt mines and what not, that’s what the American South was economically. The Northern financiers wanted to move to industrializatoon and that would require a different labor configuration. You can’t use illiterate chattel slaves in factories, you need a different mode of labor. That would inevitably mean changing the nature of ownership of human beings from private property to wage slaves. And that meant the South would lose their investments both in cash cropping and in humans. So the South seceded in order to create a separate nation with a separate economy from the industrializing North. And the war was fought under the command of Lincoln who not only didn’t care whether slavery persisted or not but believed that black people should leave the US and go back to Africa. His Emancipation Proclamation only offered emancipation to enslaved people in the rebelling states and only if they took up arms against the rebels. It was a recruitment gambit, not an expression of ideals.
As for war, we have consistently seen how guerilla warfare always beats the empire. Hell, the American Revolution was won primarily as a guerilla war and not a direct confrontation. Vietnam. Korea. Afghanistan. It’s imminently plausible for the US military to lose to a domestic uprising. And even more important, war is primarily a destruction of economies first, people second. The US is struggling desperately to manage its own economic output and can barely produce war machines and munitions at this point. A civil war would further destroy the economy here, cementing China permanently and the UD elites would have nowhere to go except back to Europe which is also floundering.
I hope there is. War is never the answer but these two parties are really pushing everyone to extremes
I looked it up a while back so forgive me if I didn’t get it right but I believe there have been two cases in history of a peaceful transition from fascism to democracy. Anyway, I’m hoping for that.
Portugal and Spain in the 1970s?
There are several other examples of a more or less peaceful transition from autocracy to democracy.
As things stand, unfortunately, the far-right is significantly better armed and better prepared for a breakdown in government.
While I would prefer to peacefully reform the system, it’s increasingly clear that there’s validity to the saying, “If you want peace, prepare for war.” The fact that the right is better positioned for a breakdown in order allows them to push further and further without fear. Civil war or revolution isn’t going to be something the left chooses, rather, if current trends continue (and it seems like they will) we may end up in a situation where it’s forced upon us and we are left but no choice to defend ourselves.
It’s not necessarily an all-or-nothing deal. There are methods of fighting back that are more effective than relying on the Democrats but don’t constitute full-on revolution, such as strikes. While strikes are non-violent, history has shown that they have potential to become violent, for example, if a boss hires mercenaries to force people back to work at gunpoint.
Likewise, if masked gunmen started showing up to people’s workplaces, demanding some of the workers to be handed over to be taken as hostages, workers need to be prepared to deal with that emergency.
Practically speaking, even if you wanted a revolution, there’s now way that would even be viable while practical steps for community defense have not been made. I’m not sure it’s rhetorically necessary to go further than that, particularly on a public forum.
I’m only quibbling with the right is better prepared.
The core issue for them is they are building their preparedness around “rugged individualism” and we prepare with resilient communities.
Great point I don’t see made enough. The right in the US is better armed, but preparedness involves more than just arms. Obviously creating communities and networks is incredibly important as well.
I think that the Trump Regime has inadvertently created the communities that will resist them in the future: former military staff of good character and skill have been exiled, as have many government workers. These people will form the backbone of future governments.
The Trump Regime has self-selected for corruption, cowardice, and servility, while creating foes that very much lack such qualities.
“I, John Brown, am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land can never be purged away but with blood. I had, as I now think, vainly flattered myself that without very much bloodshed, it might be done.”
- John Brown
I would like to see the “United States of America” burn to the ground and cease to exist entirely as a political and military entity.
If the petrodollar fails that’s exactly what’s going to happen. The rest of the world won’t miss the opportunity to hamstring the US during their moment of weakness and ensure they turn into an insular, regional isolationist power. It’ll be well deserved too…
The petrodollar will fail. It’s a certainty now that it will happen soon, historically speaking.
Yeah I agree with you there. It’s going to be a free for all once that happens…
when*
Anything else on your wish list? Just curious.
I guess that you have to live outside the US to see what a scary man-baby it is. If a country has all the power in the world, and then decides that rules don’t apply to them, it quite a short step to wishing that they would fail and leave the rest of us alone. The delusion is that they have adopted the world cop role. The reality is that they are the world bully.
No.
No.
Elections were meant to be bloodless revolution. What about “You are forced to vote for someone who doesn’t represent you” screams bloodless revolution?
Usually this is where I would make a long winded comment about replacing First-past-the-post voting with a voting system that allows more then two parties to exist without a spoiler effect… but that time has long since passed us by.
Democrats refused to implement the change Obama promised, Republicans eventually won. GG no RE. Good luck out there yall.
Democrats have no intention of changing anything meaningful. We learned that when Obama had a supermajority and became a black Dubya, despite his extravagant progressive promises.
Our only power is local now, and they know this, which is why they swift-boated Mamdani and ran a Democratic partisan against him.
Yes, it will take a major disruption to necessitate any meaningful change at the national level.
Correct to answer OP, yes you can’t vote your way out of fascism. So we will need a war to get out of this mess.
Then to the Democrats the current Democratic Party is already right of Regan. It’s that racket effect. Fuck up part if things keep going as business as usual. Then your next major Democratic candidates will be no different then Trump.
But all that moot. Again we can’t vote our way out of this nightmare. And before 2030 we will all be living in hell run by oligarchy tecno bros. With all the AI data center sucking up all our water and they rounded up as much of the population that they can. Then it over.
You think North Korea is bad wait until we are living in just that type of world in America were statues of Trump liter the country and anybody that doesn’t worship him is locked in a work camp.
