European countries, especially Germany and the UK are mayor supporters of Israel and the support went on as the genocidal intent was made louder and louder by the Israeli government.
The UN says that within the next days 14,000 babies will be killed by starvation through the total aid blockade and hundreds of thousands of people are on the brink of starvation.
Again European countries support this or remain inactive about it. Suggesting now to “pause content” is quite unhinged. People are being subjected to the most heinous crimes and the only thing that can achieve a change is to keep up pressure, which starts by keeping to talk about it.
It really doesn’t help the case when people say stuff like “Germany supports the genocide”. Not doing enough to stop it? Easy to argue. Not opposing, or even supporting? That’s slander.
Germany kept sending arms to Israel. Among other things outgoing chancellor Scholz and his coalition had approved another 100 million € of weapons to Israel as late as October 2024.
The current chancellor announced that he wants Netanyahu to come to Germany and that he would find a way around the ICC arrest warrant, aka defy the rules based international order to host a suspected war criminal.
Just last week Germanies president was shaking hands with Netanyah in Israel. Germany is the only country siding with Israel in the genocide case at the ICJ. Germany delayed the ICC proceedings against Netanyahu, Gallant, Sinwar and Deif and Hanye with ridiculous arguments in their notes to the court. Just yesterday the German government in their press conference said that it was an “important and good step” that Israel allowed 9 trucks into Gaza. 9 trucks as the minimum to end starvation are 500 trucks a day.
Germany continues to support Israel financially, diplomatically and with weapons. The lip services are worthless, as the actions speak continued support.
Germany is not going to play the bad cop someone else will have to take up that mantle. You know exactly why. No, not what you think, but as long as Germany stays a good cop the Israeli left still has an ally, is able to exert political pressure.
Among other things outgoing chancellor Scholz and his coalition had approved another 100 million € of weapons to Israel as late as October 2024.
Weapons exports were halted for a long time, most of those 100m aren’t weapons but military goods (say, helmets or replacement parts for radars), Germany has demanded a pledge from Israel to only use it for actions compatible with international law. I know how that sounds, I know what you think about it: “Oh, interesting, they’re setting a trap”. (That is what you thought, didn’t you?).
It’s not like Israel wouldn’t be able to produce all the weapons they need to turn the whole of Palestine into mulch on their own, btw. Germany basically does this out of the recognition that Hezbollah etc. exist and would exploit Israeli weakness. The situation cannot be solved with economical pressure, that’d be pissing in the wind. At worst, you’d accelerate Israel’s slide into complete fascism with command economy, arresting the opposition, and everything. Noone would be helped by that.
The current chancellor announced that he wants Netanyahu to come to Germany and that he would find a way around the ICC arrest warrant,
Not going to happen that’s just Merz being impulsive, running his mouth. There’s no legal way for them to do it short of leaving the ICC which is a political impossibility.
Just last week Germanies president was shaking hands with Netanyah in Israel.
Anniversary of 60 years of diplomatic relations, it had to be done. Why, pray tell, did the presidents visit the other country, and not the prime minister / chancellor? Would’ve been appropriate to do a president + prime minister combination at such a big anniversary. You tell me.
Germany delayed the ICC proceedings against Netanyahu, Gallant, Sinwar and Deif and Hanye with ridiculous arguments in their notes to the court.
Defence attorneys doing defence attorney things, they want to be sure they’re in the loop and have access. And before I hear “Israel can defend themselves” no they can’t, they’re only making things worse for themselves as they believe their own propaganda. And btw can you explain what practical impact the “delay” has. The warrants are still out, they’re still not in custody.
Just yesterday the German government in their press conference said that it was an “important and good step” that Israel allowed 9 trucks into Gaza. 9 trucks as the minimum to end starvation are 500 trucks a day.
As humanitarian donors, we have two straightforward messages for the Government of Israel: allow a full resumption of aid into Gaza immediately and enable the UN and humanitarian organisations to work independently and impartially to save lives, reduce suffering and maintain dignity.
but as long as Germany stays a good cop the Israeli left still has an ally, is able to exert political pressure.
The Israeli left, who is persecuted in Germany, for instance by forcing Omri Boehm out of the Buchenwald liberation commemoration. Also “good cops” dont hand weapons to mass murder suspects.
Germany has demanded a pledge from Israel to only use it for actions compatible with international law. I know how that sounds, I know what you think about it: “Oh, interesting, they’re setting a trap”. (That is what you thought, didn’t you?).
It is more like “give me a pinky promise and i trust you. Just let me out of responsibility”. Also that radar is used to facilitate bomb and drone strikes. It doesn’t matter if it is not the explosive part of a weapon system that is delivered. Any military or dual use good is complicity.
It’s not like Israel wouldn’t be able to produce all the weapons they need to turn the whole of Palestine into mulch on their own, btw.
Except they didn’t because they couldn’t and mostly relied on foreign military aid. but even if they had the production capacities, they would need the raw materials. These again facilitate complicity.
Germany basically does this out of the recognition that Hezbollah etc. exist and would exploit Israeli weakness.
The Hezbollah that was pressured into a ceasefire through a heavy bombing campaign on Lebanon killing thousands of people at the time these new shipments were announced?
Also pick one. Either Israel can make all the stuff themselves or they need help. Both at the same time isnt possible.
Anniversary of 60 years of diplomatic relations, it had to be done.
No. Shaking hands with a wanted war criminal never has to be done. See Putin not being visited for the 80 years end of WW2. Unless you want Putin to be visited and his hands shook?
And btw can you explain what practical impact the “delay” has. The warrants are still out, they’re still not in custody.
Every month of earlier pressure means earlier sanctions means earlier end to the atrocities, means hundreds if not thousands or tens of thousands of people killed.
It is also completely insufficient, yes.
As has been all responses to German demands for the past two years. Remaining on the side of just making demands without exerting real pressure means to remain apathic to the atrocities committed at best, but very often complicit.
As has been all responses to German demands for the past two years. Remaining on the side of just making demands without exerting real pressure means to remain apathic to the atrocities committed at best, but very often complicit.
Ok, let’s game this out: Germany halts all weapons exports to Israel, the EU sanctions Israel into oblivion. What happens? The US quadruple down, Israeli fascists take the opportunity and wrap up the last Israeli in their victim narrative (“see we told you they’re all antisemites they want us dead”), leading to the fascists reigning with complete impunity. Commence mulching of Palestine. And all that because the adults decided to leave the room.
I would also very much like to live in a different world. In a world where simple, moral acts result in simple, moral, results. But that ain’t the world we’re living in.
Save your breath when it comes to Germany, if you want to change the equation focus on the US. One of the two would like to build skyscrapers on the Gaza beachfront to make some quick bucks, the other’s reaction to that is “WTF dude”.
Also pick one. Either Israel can make all the stuff themselves or they need help. Both at the same time isnt possible.
Turning Palestine into mulch is much easier done than defending against incursions by actual armies. Starving Palestine is even easier, and no amount of not sending weapons will prevent Israel from doing that.
EU makes full sanctions -> bans all ships carrying military and dual use goods from entering ports -> Option A Israel stops. Option B, EU countries agree on a military mission to force an aid corridor into Gaza by Sea. If Israel attacks, Nato article 5.
The idea that Israel would hold back and the US willing to double down and ramp up support and Israel somehow listening to the EU while doing the exact opposite of what is demanded is absurd. If the EU would get its shit together, the US and Israel would stand alone. The EU could get access to the surrounding countries and exert pressure to block US influence. Then the US would have to decide to go to WW3 against the EU to protect Israel? This wont happen.
This is appeasement nonsense. And it is in no way representing “adult” politics. Appeasement didnt work with South Africa. Appeasement didnt work before. Appeasement doesn’t work with Russia. Appeasement never works with fascists. The only thing that stops them is to take away any support they have.
And time is running out. We are looking at hundreds of thousands if not millions of people being genocided by starvation this year. There is nothing “adult” about watching a crime and not doing anything to stop it.
European countries, especially Germany and the UK are mayor supporters of Israel and the support went on as the genocidal intent was made louder and louder by the Israeli government.
The UN says that within the next days 14,000 babies will be killed by starvation through the total aid blockade and hundreds of thousands of people are on the brink of starvation.
Again European countries support this or remain inactive about it. Suggesting now to “pause content” is quite unhinged. People are being subjected to the most heinous crimes and the only thing that can achieve a change is to keep up pressure, which starts by keeping to talk about it.
Instead demanding silence is morally wrong.
As many fights there are in here. We should just refrain from posting about Israel and Palestine in c/Europe.
https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/newsroom/news/e3-gaza-2714878
It really doesn’t help the case when people say stuff like “Germany supports the genocide”. Not doing enough to stop it? Easy to argue. Not opposing, or even supporting? That’s slander.
Germany kept sending arms to Israel. Among other things outgoing chancellor Scholz and his coalition had approved another 100 million € of weapons to Israel as late as October 2024.
The current chancellor announced that he wants Netanyahu to come to Germany and that he would find a way around the ICC arrest warrant, aka defy the rules based international order to host a suspected war criminal.
Just last week Germanies president was shaking hands with Netanyah in Israel. Germany is the only country siding with Israel in the genocide case at the ICJ. Germany delayed the ICC proceedings against Netanyahu, Gallant, Sinwar and Deif and Hanye with ridiculous arguments in their notes to the court. Just yesterday the German government in their press conference said that it was an “important and good step” that Israel allowed 9 trucks into Gaza. 9 trucks as the minimum to end starvation are 500 trucks a day.
Germany continues to support Israel financially, diplomatically and with weapons. The lip services are worthless, as the actions speak continued support.
Germany is not going to play the bad cop someone else will have to take up that mantle. You know exactly why. No, not what you think, but as long as Germany stays a good cop the Israeli left still has an ally, is able to exert political pressure.
Weapons exports were halted for a long time, most of those 100m aren’t weapons but military goods (say, helmets or replacement parts for radars), Germany has demanded a pledge from Israel to only use it for actions compatible with international law. I know how that sounds, I know what you think about it: “Oh, interesting, they’re setting a trap”. (That is what you thought, didn’t you?).
It’s not like Israel wouldn’t be able to produce all the weapons they need to turn the whole of Palestine into mulch on their own, btw. Germany basically does this out of the recognition that Hezbollah etc. exist and would exploit Israeli weakness. The situation cannot be solved with economical pressure, that’d be pissing in the wind. At worst, you’d accelerate Israel’s slide into complete fascism with command economy, arresting the opposition, and everything. Noone would be helped by that.
Not going to happen that’s just Merz being impulsive, running his mouth. There’s no legal way for them to do it short of leaving the ICC which is a political impossibility.
Anniversary of 60 years of diplomatic relations, it had to be done. Why, pray tell, did the presidents visit the other country, and not the prime minister / chancellor? Would’ve been appropriate to do a president + prime minister combination at such a big anniversary. You tell me.
Defence attorneys doing defence attorney things, they want to be sure they’re in the loop and have access. And before I hear “Israel can defend themselves” no they can’t, they’re only making things worse for themselves as they believe their own propaganda. And btw can you explain what practical impact the “delay” has. The warrants are still out, they’re still not in custody.
It is a good step. It is also completely insufficient, yes. Which is why they also said:
The Israeli left, who is persecuted in Germany, for instance by forcing Omri Boehm out of the Buchenwald liberation commemoration. Also “good cops” dont hand weapons to mass murder suspects.
It is more like “give me a pinky promise and i trust you. Just let me out of responsibility”. Also that radar is used to facilitate bomb and drone strikes. It doesn’t matter if it is not the explosive part of a weapon system that is delivered. Any military or dual use good is complicity.
Except they didn’t because they couldn’t and mostly relied on foreign military aid. but even if they had the production capacities, they would need the raw materials. These again facilitate complicity.
The Hezbollah that was pressured into a ceasefire through a heavy bombing campaign on Lebanon killing thousands of people at the time these new shipments were announced?
Also pick one. Either Israel can make all the stuff themselves or they need help. Both at the same time isnt possible.
No. Shaking hands with a wanted war criminal never has to be done. See Putin not being visited for the 80 years end of WW2. Unless you want Putin to be visited and his hands shook?
Every month of earlier pressure means earlier sanctions means earlier end to the atrocities, means hundreds if not thousands or tens of thousands of people killed.
As has been all responses to German demands for the past two years. Remaining on the side of just making demands without exerting real pressure means to remain apathic to the atrocities committed at best, but very often complicit.
Ok, let’s game this out: Germany halts all weapons exports to Israel, the EU sanctions Israel into oblivion. What happens? The US quadruple down, Israeli fascists take the opportunity and wrap up the last Israeli in their victim narrative (“see we told you they’re all antisemites they want us dead”), leading to the fascists reigning with complete impunity. Commence mulching of Palestine. And all that because the adults decided to leave the room.
I would also very much like to live in a different world. In a world where simple, moral acts result in simple, moral, results. But that ain’t the world we’re living in.
Save your breath when it comes to Germany, if you want to change the equation focus on the US. One of the two would like to build skyscrapers on the Gaza beachfront to make some quick bucks, the other’s reaction to that is “WTF dude”.
Turning Palestine into mulch is much easier done than defending against incursions by actual armies. Starving Palestine is even easier, and no amount of not sending weapons will prevent Israel from doing that.
EU makes full sanctions -> bans all ships carrying military and dual use goods from entering ports -> Option A Israel stops. Option B, EU countries agree on a military mission to force an aid corridor into Gaza by Sea. If Israel attacks, Nato article 5.
The idea that Israel would hold back and the US willing to double down and ramp up support and Israel somehow listening to the EU while doing the exact opposite of what is demanded is absurd. If the EU would get its shit together, the US and Israel would stand alone. The EU could get access to the surrounding countries and exert pressure to block US influence. Then the US would have to decide to go to WW3 against the EU to protect Israel? This wont happen.
This is appeasement nonsense. And it is in no way representing “adult” politics. Appeasement didnt work with South Africa. Appeasement didnt work before. Appeasement doesn’t work with Russia. Appeasement never works with fascists. The only thing that stops them is to take away any support they have.
And time is running out. We are looking at hundreds of thousands if not millions of people being genocided by starvation this year. There is nothing “adult” about watching a crime and not doing anything to stop it.