- cross-posted to:
- collapse@sopuli.xyz
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design thinking, that’s the think they always talk about in my technobro bullshitting classes that they decided, was a good idea to add to the engineering currriculum.
This thing you love is killing the planet
Important to recognize that the thing you love isn’t what’s killing the planet. The excess unmanaged waste is killing the planet. And we can manage the waste as a matter of regional policy. But only when we value the long term health of the planet over the short term privatization of profits.
This thing you love is killing people
Important to recognize that the thing you love isn’t what’s killing people. The unchecked advance of a massive military industrial complex is what’s killing people. And we can recall these troops, end the bombings and assassinations, and pursue a global policy of peace and prosperity. But only when we value all human life equitably, rather than seeing some niche group or ideology as unimpeachable while another group as intrinsically evil.
The thing you love is killing you
No it fucking isn’t. The thing is essential to your existence. That’s why you crave it. What’s killing you is the commercial need to reduce the cost of its production, in order to yield a product that has an extended shelf life and an easily marketable branding. You can enjoy a good meal without poisoning yourself. What you lack is the time to prepare your own treats, the facilities to perform the preparation, and the skills necessary to do it properly. And all of these are easy to do, so long as we’re afford the time and space and education to do it.
Blaming the end consumer is a major part of the pattern of consumerism. Don’t blame yourself for living in society. Don’t blame yourself for being born somewhere or being subject to certain historical conditions. Do what you can when you can. Value your time and labor. And make some fucking friends, damnit, don’t live alone in a god damned cave. Don’t become reliant on commodities. And for the love of god don’t let yourself become a commodity.
I’m sorry, but consumers are killing the planet. Hiding behind this idea that a society’s functions are dictated by just the ultra wealthy and corporations is just wrong. We fund it all. The Trumps, Epsteins, big oil, big pharma, Taylor Swift… They’re rich and powerful because we the people make them so.
Hard disagree. The amount of money and energy that has gone into manipulation and corporate lobbying has ensured that most people are brainwashed without ever knowing it. It’s NOT the people’s fault, it’s the ultra weathy
The battery in the device you’re hard disagreeing with me on was created by slave and child labor. You knew that and bought it anyway. I assume you still eat meat despite knowing the environmental impact. Are you brainwashed too then or does how you spend your money somehow not affect the world?
👍
What slight improvement to society is being talked about here? I know you wanted to participate, but try adding something to the conversation instead of a misused meme.
you are dismissing talk of holding actual problems accountable, to focus on inconsequential individual accountability, specifically using the “but you have are using an iphone, i am very smart” argument to not actually have to argue a point. you have been consistently dishonest in your messaging and it shows.
Thanks for dismanteling his argumentation and putting it into context so well :)
So what then? You are here, clearly you are participating as well. There is no ethical consumption here. I doubt the rocks you’re throwing are thrown from somewhere safe when they inevitably get thrown back.
I live a very minimal life, often to my own determent. I do the best I can to lessen my impact and contribution to other’s suffering.
I get more rocks thrown at me for speaking my mind on these types of topics because people absolutely hate the idea that they have more control in this awful system than they want to admit. It’s worse now because more and more people are calling for change, but refuse to sacrifice their comforts to enact that change. They’ll blame the system for making rent too high and fearing homelessness, but at the same time twiddle their thumbs while rent goes up and more people are forced into the homelessness they fear.
You want the people fight for the better. That’s I think noble. But at the same time you argue against that the enemy is the government, and you put the blame on ordinary people instead. So you want people to fight themselves. I want people to fight the government. Law is the solution for many of these issues. E.g.: It’s not big pollution vs small pollution, I’d like NO pollution.
The point is that it’s your choice where to make sacrifices for the causes you believe in. Everybody already knows that fossil fuels cause pollution, this is not some big secret. People don’t just get to hide behind “brainwashing” as a defense.
It’s not really a choice though. We have to work harder, longer, faster for a wage that doesn’t increase anywhere as fast as the efficiency of the workers. We have no time to do things the old way. I literally sacrificed a week of vacation to set up my homelab because I want to reduce my dependency on techbro bullshit. In many countries everything is done via smartphones. It’s near impossible to live without one. It wouldn’t be so bad if techbros wouldn’t come up with addiction driven software, but here we are.
And yes, many people are brainwashed into hating vegans. They are being controlled by the media they consume.
If our schools would teach the children his fucking bad all this tech is, we might stand a chance. But again, schools are controlled by rich assholes in power.
Yeah I think everyone gets that, but what then? We can acknowledge that the path of least resistance is destructive, while also acknowledging that some folks will be on that path through no fault of their own, and the rest of us are heavily incentivized to follow that path. It’s far more efficient to try and fix the system routing the paths, than to individually change everyone’s behavior en masse.
To clarify, I’m all for fossil fuel regulation. The fossil fuel industry is different from most in that it has huge externalities, and those can only be controlled via regulation (as explained by Tragedy of the Commons). However, what I’m saying is that personal responsibility is still important. In fact, in a democracy it’s basically all that matters. Whether you vote for public policy or you vote with your wallet, both have the power to affect change.
Changing the system and rerouting the paths and forcing everybody to follow, sounds nice in theory. And in this case I do agree that some regulation is necessary. However changing the system can end up enormously good and also enormously bad. It has both incredible power and risk. The problem is that nobody agrees on how to change it. Every few years the group in power changes, and reverses the policies created by the opposing group. I am not confident that this is as efficient as you say it is.
What I don’t like about resorting to regulation, is that it’s all or nothing. The policy passes or it doesn’t. The free market is much more flexible. If 20% of people vote with their wallet, that wouldn’t have been enough to get a policy to pass, but it sure is enough to get an industry to re-think their strategy and try to re-capture that 20%.
this idea of “brainwashing” is a convenient way to dodge personal responsibility. Next time I think about returning the shopping cart I’ll remember I’m “brainwashed” and leave it in the middle of the parking lot. I guess the US people who voted for Trump, are blameless because propaganda exists. I guess the people who use AI tools to write code or make art, are blameless because advertising exists.
We’re on lemmy right now because we chose to be on it. It doesn’t take an ultra wealthy person to do that.
I’m not wasting any more energy on you. Have fun being cynical
You’re the one being cynical, telling people they don’t have personal responsibility
They made the world to fill us with fear and then sell us a remedy for the fear. They give us pointless work to fill up our time, and then sell our time back to us in the form of convenience. They made the world filled with anger, and then sold us outlets for our anger.
They had the stuff, so they made the rules, so they made the rules to favor them getting more stuff, so they have the stuff, so they make the rules…
The Ouroboros eats itself starting from the tail, but it’s the head that does the eating. These actions always start with someone who has enough wanting more. If we had the ability to shape our own destiny, we’d grow far beyond these petty things (think of how much generational trauma starts with “we can’t afford to live” as the ignition point). That requires the people with the boots to get off our necks first.
Or for people to collectively decide to throw the boots off, but we’ve been waiting all of written history for that. I’m not sure humanity is capable of it, as a whole.
We are capable of it, but the incentives are all fucked for it. It requires people to put in a fuck ton of effort… and then not suck up more then they need in doing so. Then, while they’re not vacuuming up excess resources, they also have to fight all of the people who want them to fail in order to maintain the status quo. It’s gonna be hard, but it isn’t impossible. Once a big enough group gets past that line, it’ll get easier for the rest of us to cross it as well (assuming no unnecessary lines get drawn in the doing so)
Hard disagree. But feel free to tell me how your attempt of stopping to fund all of that goes, surely you know how to do that without joining the Amish and being on the run from your countries’ tax agency.
You can’t even realistically avoid Nestlé and all its smaller brands (way too many). Stop blame the fucking people for the mess of the different power structures we were all born in, it’s nobodies fault but those in charge of those systems. Which is not us, systemically. Nobody is “funding” this crap, everyone’s forced into it. Welcome to fucking capitalism.
I don’t have to tell you anything. You can believe whatever you want, but throwing your hands up and just consuming because “system bad can’t fix” is exactly why the system is bad.
The system has been rigged so people can’t afford to not consume the products.
Exactly.
Food, shelter, health, social interactions, mobility, now “intelligence” (well, a bad simulation of it). EVERYTHING has been capitalised. To believe anyone could change shit by just “consuming differently” is very much stuck in the same ideology that created this disaster.
Is anyone here aware of the concept that you can both take some personal responsibility and attempt to change the system?
Changing the system sufficiently WOULD result in many of the changes people could make on their own already. You don’t have to be the perfect sustainable human being in a society that doesn’t care. You also don’t have to be the person driving 3km to work in a car instead of using the perfectly fine public transport or bicycle infrastructure. There’s a middle ground.
consumers are killing the planet
Consumers have no control over the availability of the things they purchase.
Hiding behind this idea that a society’s functions are dictated by just the ultra wealthy and corporations is just wrong
It’s empirically proven.
Consumers have no control over the availability of the things they purchase.
Come on. That’s denialism. Let’s start by not eating beef nor lamb anymore. You’ve got a lot of choices : poultry, pork, fish, veganism, etc. Beef meat is producing plenty of carbon emission.
https://assets-global.website-files.com/61642bed5d6a8ae19539536c/6236d060438100394aa7a7e1_nhl1.jpg
That’s denialism.
That’s capitalism. The consumer has no democratic input into the economic process.
Let’s start by not eating beef nor lamb anymore.
Way ahead of you.
Of course, most meat produced in the US has historically been exported. Far more effective than individualist efforts at Veganism has been the Trump trade war with China. Far more effective than individual consumerism has been drought induced climate change.
Beef meat is producing plenty of carbon emission.
Cattle inventory has been on the decline since 1979 fully independent of cattle demand.
The cost per head has been rising. Beef share of the market is being priced out whether you eat it or not.
No control? Your purchases have no impact, eh?
Where do the ultra wealthy get there wealth again,
Through the private ownership over the means of production which they leverage against the proletariat through the commodification of community goods and resources in order to coerce their labor of which they then profit off in a cruel and oppressive cycle of forced dependency which is maintained through the state.
This is like Leftism 101.
And how do you stop it… You’re almost there…
By organizing to take back the means of production and revolutionize the system. Not uselessly deny yourself simple pleasures to feel morally superior to others by buying into the capitalist propaganda which shifts blame onto the consumer and away from the owners of production.
It’s literally Leftism 101 and you’re failing.
I’m failing? How’s that leftism 101 game plan working out again? Organizing much? Seizing the means of production much? It sure seems like intellectualizing and trying to eschew responsibility is doing an amazing job of ensuring capitalism thrives! At least what I do is putting my money where my mouth is.
Your purchases have no impact, eh?
Not under the profit motive, no. Industries monopolize. Territory is enclosed. Goods and services are enahittified. None of that is a consequence of consumer demand.
Where do the ultra wealthy get there wealth again,
The violent seizure of primitive and industrial capital from the working class.
Go right and try not to consume. You literally cannot. In many places, if you try, you will literally go to jail for not participating in the system.
Living good and ethically sound is a best-effort kind of thing these days
these days
Always has been.
Yeah it requires so much killing. Like I think even totally unopposed and switching hands my trigger finger would fall the fuck off if I really tried.
But what were we supposed to do? Put all the means of production in the hands of someone who wasn’t in the global transnational cabal of deeply chinese-room-ass genocidal Nazi pedophiles who compulsively restructure society to build the torment nexus they heard of most recently? Not delegate all our decision making and general coordination of society and its norms to a bunch of incredibly venal unaccountable pedophiles who won a popularity contest and will sell your soul and pave Yellowstone for a four figure bribe because we’re too fucking lazy to take an interest in the world after a long day of refusing to object to our own exploitation?
That’s fucking unreasonable. All there is to do is embrace The Horrors and learn to love the taste of the rare earth conflict minerals they started adding to doritos premium. So worth the cancer.
If you have some solution that doesn’t involve time travel, the world is all ears. As always, the only options available are to do as much as you can where you can, and realize you’re up against a tide of people who aren’t going to put in that kind of effort.
If you really think the the situation is that dire and that the solution is so obvious and easy that it justifies the kind of snark you’re displaying, it reflects more on you than anyone else that you’re here shitposting instead of taking the direct action you think is so critical and obvious. If you’ve got the answer, go and prove it.
as much as you can
By what metric? As much as you can without disrupting your routine? As much as you can without getting tired? As much as you can without putting yourself at risk?
Whatever the current standard, if things continue as they are, you die. I die. Everyone dies..
Like I said. I think given the devaluing of communication; a lot of killing is required. To the point even if you lined everyone who needed to die up and lined them up in front of me with a gun my finger would fall off before I killed them all.
So forgive me for being slightly dire and slightly bitter. I’m jot going to risk myself for anything that benefits you people; I think I would genuinely prefer to watch you die beside me than be even a best case hero/martyr. Too much gas lighting, too many itoldyouso’s. And the organization afterwards that would be required to survive? Not enough people are capable of that.
You’re doomed. There’s no saving you. Watching you flail around doing shit that would have been inadequate decades ago is annoying as shit.
Oxygen is slowly killing you. It’s just better than the alternative.
We’re all slowly burning
I’m almost out of bubblegum…
How is music killing the planet?
With Heavy Metals!!!
Yeah the comic is kinda lame.
/Rimshot
/Blastbeats
maybe that’s the album title
The music industry is pretty bad. Especially to musicians.
Also, data centers.
When you think of the countless number of more useful things you can do with a piece of plastic than make a record out of it, I feel the least we can do is say something worthwhile on it.
Just think of how many pieces of plastic there are in your town or city holding music. Then think of how many towns and cities around the world are the same. Millions upon millions of pieces of plastic just for music than can be served via digital means now but are kept on plastic because of nostalgia and a feeling of connection to the analog.
Those digital alternatives are provided by services that broadly reserve the right to pull your access to that media at any time. That doesn’t even get into how many of these services are owned by large corporations who take the money that you the consumer give them for access to the media that they control and contribute it towards political campaigns or environmentally damaging ventures far worse than manufacturing a CD and wrapping it in a layer of plastic.
And if you’re wary of either choice knowing that, there’s always piracy, which naturally has been criminalized.
Those services aren’t the only option.
Bandcamp (and its plethora of alternatives) allow people to purchase digital files and do what they wish with them. Such as load them onto their phone, an mp3 player of some kind (my 14 year old iPod classic is still going strong!), or onto a server hosting something like Navidrome or Jellyfin.
Just because Spotify, Apple Music, etc have the biggest advertising budget doesn’t mean they’re the only alternative.
Bandcamp is one of those services.
Content you purchase in a Transaction cannot be guaranteed to be available to you perpetually. For example, if we receive a notification of claimed infringement from a copyright owner or its agent with respect to specific Content, then we may be required by law to remove that Content from the Service and not make it available for future sale and we may also have to deny continued access to anyone who previously purchased such Content. This means that you may lose access to purchased Content previously available to you through the Service.
If we are required by law to deny access through the Service to previously purchased Content, including by removing access to Content from a user’s personal collection through any mobile application, then Company will not provide the user who purchased that Content with a refund, except as required by applicable law. Users bear all risk from the denial of access to any Content purchased through the Service.
Company may terminate your access to all or any part of the Service at any time, with or without cause, with or without notice, effective immediately, which may result in the forfeiture and destruction of all information associated with your membership, including, without limitation, any access to any Music you may have purchased through the Service.
Downloading that music to your devices is all well and good until you experience a RAID array failure. Or your SD card gets corrupted. Or your old phone decides it doesn’t want to turn on anymore. Local digital storage is a limited, degrading resource. The device you put your file on is something you anticipate becoming eWaste that will be thrown away someday, and in anticipation of that happening we generally introduce redundancy that means more stuff that will eventually get thrown away.
I say this as someone who has his own Jellyfin NAS setup and who has both lost physical media in natural disasters and digital data to simple memory failure. None of these systems are infallible and physical media has value beyond simple nostalgia factor or novelty.
Spotify. /s? I think?
his head is upside down?
