Well, that’s on her then. Not knowing about laws does not make them not apply to you.
Brexit was decided 10 years ago. So 10 years to sort out the consequences of Brexit. What did she expect? That Brexit does not apply to her? Yet she never felt the need to apply for Swedish citizenship despite calling it her home for more than 20 years now?
Yes, it is a personal tragedy, but why now blame Sweden for something the British populace decided? And what could easily be avoided by her in the last 10 years?
Her husband, Gwynne, died in 2023 of cancer. It was on a trip back from the UK in 2022, when they visited their second son in Brighton, that they first learned they should have made a formal application to stay in Sweden after Brexit.
She said her husband had been meticulous at keeping up with news relevant to British people in Sweden and had taken responsibility for all the administration in their household. She was sure he would have made the Brexit application had he known about it.
While late applications are permissible under the UK’s withdrawal agreement with the EU, Thomas’s submission was rejected in 2024 as she could not demonstrate “reasonable grounds” for applying late. A subsequent application to stay under national immigration laws was also rejected.
As someone with ADHD and debilitating allergy to bureaucracy, I can’t help but relate. I see what you’re saying, of course, but I also know that it’s too damn hard to navigate this kind of crap and figure out exactly what paperwork you need to submit and to where. Things slip through the cracks, and some forgiveness should be afforded.
As someone with ADHD and debilitating allergy to bureaucracy, I can’t help but relate.
Sure. Yet you will still find ways to pay your taxes, apply for passports, obey the traffic rules, etc. You either fight through it yourself and/or have people around you helping with what is most difficult for you. It doesn’t mean these rules and obligations don’t apply to you.
It was on a trip back from the UK in 2022, when they visited their second son in Brighton, that they first learned they should have made a formal application to stay in Sweden after Brexit.
Honestly: how can you, after hearing/seeing Theresa May on all channels and newspapers in Europe year after year repeating her “Brexit means Brexit!!!” mantra, be under the impression for so long that this won’t affect you, a foreign national living abroad? Because they are British? Because Brexit would only mean they can’t come to us, while we are still free to go wherever we please? I can’t help to feel some amount of arrogance emanating from this.
She said her husband had been meticulous at keeping up with news relevant to British people in Sweden and had taken responsibility for all the administration in their household. She was sure he would have made the Brexit application had he known about it.
I mean, we aren’t in the 50s any more. She’s her own person and has her own responsibilities. Also, the article mentions a family (son + grandchildren) in Sweden, so they weren’t alone these last 10 years. That would be one of the first things I’d ask them as their son after the Brexit vote passed: mum, dad, have you sorted out your citizenship here? This is serious.
Sure. Yet you will still find ways to pay your taxes, apply for passports, obey the traffic rules, etc. You either fight through it yourself and/or have people around you helping with what is most difficult for you. It doesn’t mean these rules and obligations don’t apply to you.
ADHD people often don’t. That’s what makes it a disorder. Also “or have people around you helping with what is most difficult for you” do you mean like her husband who was dying of cancer? Perhaps that was greater in the forefront of her mind than bureaucracy that the state could easily have automated.
Grief does strange things to people, particularly so for long term partners.
cus this sounds like distorted hyper empathy from a person who doesnt know what it’s like
i have really bad adhd but the most important things get done even if i procrastinate on them for often a really long time.
adhd doesnt make things impossible, even if really hard and what feels like impossible. if youre bleeding to death, you will call the emergency number even if making calls is extremely hard.
if your residency is at risk, you will of course sort it out even if it’s near the deadline. the deadline was 6.5 years ago. this is just ignorance from that british person in the article
I fully understand. But on the other hand, I really don’t like the, please pardon the word, sob-story approach chosen by the Guardian here. Not because it isn’t sad what happened to her, just to make that clear. But because the whole angle seems designed to deviate from the fact that they simply did not sort out their affairs for years. In a prolonged careless manner that wouldn’t be acceptable for neither you nor me or anyone else.
do you mean like her husband who was dying of cancer?
I.a. her son, who according to the article also lives in Sweden with his family. Or the other son who lives in the UK and hence at least should be very much aware on what was happening since 2016. We’re not talking about a situation that suddenly surfaced in 2023, when her husband was gravely ill, but about a situation that developed since 2016.
Grief does strange things to people, particularly so for long term partners. If you still can’t grasp how administrative formalities can feel like a Sisyphean task to some I recommend watching this
Trust me, no need to tell me. Lost a very close family member some months ago and I know only too well how you’re suddenly supposed to handle grief and overwhelming administrative formalities at the same time, with the latter not showing any sign of consideration for the special situation you’re suddenly in. On the other hand, at the risk of again coming across as callous, Brexit was ten years ago. It honestly is beyond me how no-one in that family (not even the sons) at one point thought of the inevitable consequences.
I think they looked for instructions and were convinced that they already had sorted out everything, and possibly had good reasons to think so. In 2022 (before the husband’s death), they learned for the first time that this wasn’t the case, and it sounds like they turned in the paperwork immediately afterwards.
I think she didn’t know she needed to do that. Doesn’t matter how long you could have done something if you never knew about it.
I only skimmed the article earlier, I think it explains the whole situation if you’re interested.
Well, that’s on her then. Not knowing about laws does not make them not apply to you.
Brexit was decided 10 years ago. So 10 years to sort out the consequences of Brexit. What did she expect? That Brexit does not apply to her? Yet she never felt the need to apply for Swedish citizenship despite calling it her home for more than 20 years now?
Yes, it is a personal tragedy, but why now blame Sweden for something the British populace decided? And what could easily be avoided by her in the last 10 years?
As someone with ADHD and debilitating allergy to bureaucracy, I can’t help but relate. I see what you’re saying, of course, but I also know that it’s too damn hard to navigate this kind of crap and figure out exactly what paperwork you need to submit and to where. Things slip through the cracks, and some forgiveness should be afforded.
Sure. Yet you will still find ways to pay your taxes, apply for passports, obey the traffic rules, etc. You either fight through it yourself and/or have people around you helping with what is most difficult for you. It doesn’t mean these rules and obligations don’t apply to you.
Honestly: how can you, after hearing/seeing Theresa May on all channels and newspapers in Europe year after year repeating her “Brexit means Brexit!!!” mantra, be under the impression for so long that this won’t affect you, a foreign national living abroad? Because they are British? Because Brexit would only mean they can’t come to us, while we are still free to go wherever we please? I can’t help to feel some amount of arrogance emanating from this.
I mean, we aren’t in the 50s any more. She’s her own person and has her own responsibilities. Also, the article mentions a family (son + grandchildren) in Sweden, so they weren’t alone these last 10 years. That would be one of the first things I’d ask them as their son after the Brexit vote passed: mum, dad, have you sorted out your citizenship here? This is serious.
You come across as callous.
ADHD people often don’t. That’s what makes it a disorder. Also “or have people around you helping with what is most difficult for you” do you mean like her husband who was dying of cancer? Perhaps that was greater in the forefront of her mind than bureaucracy that the state could easily have automated.
Grief does strange things to people, particularly so for long term partners.
If you still can’t grasp how administrative formalities can feel like a Herculean task to some I recommend watching this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LCgHX5i6Ph4&t=2460s
do you have adhd?
cus this sounds like distorted hyper empathy from a person who doesnt know what it’s like
i have really bad adhd but the most important things get done even if i procrastinate on them for often a really long time.
adhd doesnt make things impossible, even if really hard and what feels like impossible. if youre bleeding to death, you will call the emergency number even if making calls is extremely hard.
if your residency is at risk, you will of course sort it out even if it’s near the deadline. the deadline was 6.5 years ago. this is just ignorance from that british person in the article
Yes. And many admin tasks have been procrastinated to the point of no longer being done because of it.
“I’ll do it tomorrow” over and over until it’s too late
ADHD also often comes with memory issues so there’s a chance of it just being plain forgotten after a while as well
I fully understand. But on the other hand, I really don’t like the, please pardon the word, sob-story approach chosen by the Guardian here. Not because it isn’t sad what happened to her, just to make that clear. But because the whole angle seems designed to deviate from the fact that they simply did not sort out their affairs for years. In a prolonged careless manner that wouldn’t be acceptable for neither you nor me or anyone else.
I.a. her son, who according to the article also lives in Sweden with his family. Or the other son who lives in the UK and hence at least should be very much aware on what was happening since 2016. We’re not talking about a situation that suddenly surfaced in 2023, when her husband was gravely ill, but about a situation that developed since 2016.
Trust me, no need to tell me. Lost a very close family member some months ago and I know only too well how you’re suddenly supposed to handle grief and overwhelming administrative formalities at the same time, with the latter not showing any sign of consideration for the special situation you’re suddenly in. On the other hand, at the risk of again coming across as callous, Brexit was ten years ago. It honestly is beyond me how no-one in that family (not even the sons) at one point thought of the inevitable consequences.
I think they looked for instructions and were convinced that they already had sorted out everything, and possibly had good reasons to think so. In 2022 (before the husband’s death), they learned for the first time that this wasn’t the case, and it sounds like they turned in the paperwork immediately afterwards.