Wait…element is only text and voice correct? It doesn’t support video calls? Esp group ones. Please correct me if I’m wrong but used matrix proto a while ago…back then it didn’t even support file uploads. Again, correct me if I’m wrong. Tbh, matrix protocol is pretty good how much I’ve used it
It’s hard to get people to move from what they know and use to something else. If you moved them to Google, they’d say it’s shit. Same for Zoom. They all do some stuff better than others.
Element is perfectly servicable. They’re using Element Pro which is billing itself as built for government. The first problem is they called it pro, which sets expectations higher than they should be. It’s not going to make them go WOW this is so much better at first glance.
Trying to onboard a gigantic number of people is going to be difficult for a system that doesn’t already have a gigantic number of people on it. I can only imagine how rough the system is at the moment, but it’ll work out.
I found element quite alright compared to teams, honestly. I wish the EU actually invested money in matrix to make it better instead of just using the base and building a bunch of stuff on top of it.
Most accurate description of Element I’ve ever heard to be honest. It’s literally just Discord, with all of it’s bloat, but with a protocol that wants to have “security” bolted on. And all of the security related dialogs have race conditions in them. Actually, not just in Element, all clients, even nheko and fluffychat, have race conditions in the fucking security dialogs. All of my devices are just unverified now, I just gave up.
XMPP at least functions reliably, if you ignore all of the protocol extensions and use it like IRC with images of course.
Tox supermacy! Though the main and only good Android client got archived. But like, whatever. Fuck phones anyway.
what security dialogs? and what race conditions? do you know what that means, or are you just throwing around words?
if you mean the “verify your new device” dialog, yeah, it has a problem. it won’t appear most of the time on clients that were not open when you sent the verification request from the new device. I don’t know why, and this is not comfortable, but then I can start verification from a device I already have, and it will work. or I can also just fill in the password from my password manager, which you surely have too.
but I haven’t seen other problems with it recently.
XMPP at least functions reliably, if you ignore all of the protocol extensions and use it like IRC with images of course.
which does not even have a bolted on security that way.
Though the main and only good Android client got archived.
calling element classic good is a bit of a stretch. it was very slow.
That series of dialogs and pretty much everything else, including “verified devices” menu. Also, apart from race conditions it’s often just desync. Like, right now for me, nheko and Element say everything is unverified but fluffychat says everything including itself is verified.
Not Element Classic, I meant aTox (Tox for Android). It still functions, though.
Yeah I gave up on Element/Matrix too, for other reasons.
First of all the clients don’t work for shit and every update breaks something IME, got tired of that. Also for all of my normie friends and family it was “too hard” to use, I disagree, but regardless what good is a chat app if I have nobody to use it with? Further, the one friend I did convince to join also joined the public Ras Pi room, and some dickhead posted CP in it, he saw, and then I had to explain “no, this isn’t a ‘pedo app,’ that is spam and they get banned,” and I’m gonna be real I don’t want to have to do that again and I can’t in good faith recommend my mother use a goddamn app that very possibly could spam her with CP.
So, I moved to Delta Chat. Fixes all those problems, no complaints. Easy to use, easy onboarding, no discoverability, just chats.
Tox did their own insecure crypto and got roasted by the Wireguard dev
Everyone does crypto in their own way and roasts each other. On a quantum physical mathematical psychological level unidentified flying object Yugoslavia UFO something something. I only really believe stuff in relation to exploits when there’s a demo.
the trick is to not mention XMPP to the end users. if they dig deep in the app settings they can find it out, but otherwise all that end users need to know is just, download the app named conversations, and use this domain and username. the domain could likely be hidden from them by deep linking, and sending the link in a company email. then they just need to log in as anywhere else.
https://astrachat.com/ paid XMPP. It claims the US army, apart from a few other government entities around the world, use it. I find this funny because this implies someone integrated Grok into XMPP.
Also, the old name for XMPP is Jabber. That sounds less techy, you know.
element is much lighter weight, my god wgat fuck are you even dreaming up about, discord is fucking unresponsive and horrible to use, I do agree that the device verificstion still barely works sometimes, and you can also just use a different a client, as far as web clients go cinny is really good honestly, cinny is fast and responsive it even feels almost native, which compared to garbagecord is a night and day difference in usability beyond DOING ALL OF THIS WHILE USING LESS RESOURCES, for android Schildichat Next is my choice
Here, the webapps are measured via the very scientific method of Firefox about:processes, doesn’t even account Firefox itself which is like 760 megs (decimal MB or MiB? I am not sure) if I were to believe it.
On amd64, loonix with glibc and all that crap, zero memory pressure (assuming I am reading “shared” correctly in htop which I assume to be libraries like glibc and glib):
Discord: starts at 800 megs, garbage collects down to 704 to 710-ish (overburned CD size?); turning on/off equicord doesn’t affect it much
Element: 367 mystery units after clicking around for a while, 341 unfocused
Nheko: 362 MiB, 201MiB shared (probably with Firefox, can’t close cuz I am typing here rn)
Dino: 334MiB, 116 shared (probably with Firefox)
Mumble (random server with a long text greeting and nobody in voice): 169MiB, 130MiB shared.
random forum with a bunch of emotes and table decorations (for comparison sake): 69 meters (NICE)
qwebirc (1 server): 61 megs
Weechat (6 servers): 65392 bytes, out of which 33396 shared (with system daemons I am guessing).
Toxic: 44648 bytes, out of which 0 are shared. Plus ~90000 for Alacritty (65160 shared when multiple).
element. based on matrix
Wait…element is only text and voice correct? It doesn’t support video calls? Esp group ones. Please correct me if I’m wrong but used matrix proto a while ago…back then it didn’t even support file uploads. Again, correct me if I’m wrong. Tbh, matrix protocol is pretty good how much I’ve used it
I just googled “open source teams alternatives” and Mattermost seems to be much better.
Element does support video calls. I had one with my friend a few months ago
Bruh I use that on the daily, and it works great.
It’s hard to get people to move from what they know and use to something else. If you moved them to Google, they’d say it’s shit. Same for Zoom. They all do some stuff better than others.
Element is perfectly servicable. They’re using Element Pro which is billing itself as built for government. The first problem is they called it pro, which sets expectations higher than they should be. It’s not going to make them go WOW this is so much better at first glance.
Trying to onboard a gigantic number of people is going to be difficult for a system that doesn’t already have a gigantic number of people on it. I can only imagine how rough the system is at the moment, but it’ll work out.
As long as there’s a web version so I don’t have to install another stupid client, i’m ok with it.
I found element quite alright compared to teams, honestly. I wish the EU actually invested money in matrix to make it better instead of just using the base and building a bunch of stuff on top of it.
Most accurate description of Element I’ve ever heard to be honest. It’s literally just Discord, with all of it’s bloat, but with a protocol that wants to have “security” bolted on. And all of the security related dialogs have race conditions in them. Actually, not just in Element, all clients, even nheko and fluffychat, have race conditions in the fucking security dialogs. All of my devices are just unverified now, I just gave up.
XMPP at least functions reliably, if you ignore all of the protocol extensions and use it like IRC with images of course.
Tox supermacy! Though the main and only good Android client got archived. But like, whatever. Fuck phones anyway.
what security dialogs? and what race conditions? do you know what that means, or are you just throwing around words?
if you mean the “verify your new device” dialog, yeah, it has a problem. it won’t appear most of the time on clients that were not open when you sent the verification request from the new device. I don’t know why, and this is not comfortable, but then I can start verification from a device I already have, and it will work. or I can also just fill in the password from my password manager, which you surely have too.
but I haven’t seen other problems with it recently.
which does not even have a bolted on security that way.
calling element classic good is a bit of a stretch. it was very slow.
That series of dialogs and pretty much everything else, including “verified devices” menu. Also, apart from race conditions it’s often just desync. Like, right now for me, nheko and Element say everything is unverified but fluffychat says everything including itself is verified.
Not Element Classic, I meant aTox (Tox for Android). It still functions, though.
Yeah I gave up on Element/Matrix too, for other reasons.
First of all the clients don’t work for shit and every update breaks something IME, got tired of that. Also for all of my normie friends and family it was “too hard” to use, I disagree, but regardless what good is a chat app if I have nobody to use it with? Further, the one friend I did convince to join also joined the public Ras Pi room, and some dickhead posted CP in it, he saw, and then I had to explain “no, this isn’t a ‘pedo app,’ that is spam and they get banned,” and I’m gonna be real I don’t want to have to do that again and I can’t in good faith recommend my mother use a goddamn app that very possibly could spam her with CP.
So, I moved to Delta Chat. Fixes all those problems, no complaints. Easy to use, easy onboarding, no discoverability, just chats.
Tox did their own insecure crypto and got roasted by the Wireguard dev, now they are apparently rewriting it.
I agree that Matrix is complex but personally never had issues with key verification. Just try to restart it, maybe on the other device?
Everyone does crypto in their own way and roasts each other. On a quantum physical mathematical psychological level unidentified flying object Yugoslavia UFO something something. I only really believe stuff in relation to exploits when there’s a demo.
Yeah but XMPP sounds so techy you know… /s
I bet that if someone scraped together the bare minimum and found a catchy name it’d be the winner easily.
Et-tu-Brutus would slay IMO.
the trick is to not mention XMPP to the end users. if they dig deep in the app settings they can find it out, but otherwise all that end users need to know is just, download the app named conversations, and use this domain and username. the domain could likely be hidden from them by deep linking, and sending the link in a company email. then they just need to log in as anywhere else.
https://astrachat.com/ paid XMPP. It claims the US army, apart from a few other government entities around the world, use it. I find this funny because this implies someone integrated Grok into XMPP.
Also, the old name for XMPP is Jabber. That sounds less techy, you know.
Jabber, now that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time…
Snikket.org
element is much lighter weight, my god wgat fuck are you even dreaming up about, discord is fucking unresponsive and horrible to use, I do agree that the device verificstion still barely works sometimes, and you can also just use a different a client, as far as web clients go cinny is really good honestly, cinny is fast and responsive it even feels almost native, which compared to garbagecord is a night and day difference in usability beyond DOING ALL OF THIS WHILE USING LESS RESOURCES, for android Schildichat Next is my choice
Here, the webapps are measured via the very scientific method of Firefox about:processes, doesn’t even account Firefox itself which is like 760 megs (decimal MB or MiB? I am not sure) if I were to believe it.
On amd64, loonix with glibc and all that crap, zero memory pressure (assuming I am reading “shared” correctly in htop which I assume to be libraries like glibc and glib):
lmao