K, so, for whatever reason, this decade has been popular for articles from seemingly scientific sources saying that geomagnetic storms are causing negative health effects on the body, through magnetic field fluctuations. I looked it up…and during the most extreme geomagnetic storms, Earth’s magnetic field fluctuates at a rate of about 500 nanotesla per minute. Is that rate of change enough to induce enough of a current that it acts as a cellular stressor?

edit: I was reading through a Reddit thread earlier where ER staff mentioned how during geomagnetic storms the ER is unusually busy and how their hospital is considering installing magnetic field detecting devices so they can plan accordingly…?

  • HubertManne@piefed.socialEnglish
    2·
    1 day ago

    you can’t really prove a negative. you can’t prove god does not exist and you can’t prove anything that interacts with our cells and bodies have no noticable effect. Like anything else its up to studies to prove that they do with a decent statistical likely hood that the study is accurate. I mean things that are well studied and considered modern miracle medicine still gets skepticism.

  • CameronDev@programming.dev
    32·
    2 days ago

    Nah, sounds like nonsense. An MRI is 1.5-3 Tesla, and people sit inside those with no negative effects.

    As for the ER thing, how do they know there is a geomagnetic storm going on if they don’t have the detectors already? And how would the detectors help, if they don’t provide advanced warning?

    Edit: neodymium magnets are also in the same region, 1.3-1.5T, and they are in everything. Your headphones have them inside, and those go directly in your ears.

    • coasterrider@lemmy.cafeOPEnglish
      213·
      2 days ago

      I thought so, too, but it does seem like a lot of seemingly reputable sources are talking about it as if it’s common knowledge now… https://magneticstorms.co/health/heart and yeah, good point! I think there are sites where you can track space weather, but if someone’s a paramedic I’d hope they’d be tracking patients more than space weather…

      • CameronDev@programming.dev
        32·
        2 days ago

        talking about it as if it’s common knowledge

        This is basically saying to the viewer “only idiots don’t know this, you’re not an idiot are you?”, common sales/snake oil trick, makes you feel unsafe to push back

        ( of course, this comment also fits into that trick as well :) )

      • Beacon@fedia.io
        15·
        2 days ago

        That is very clearly a NOT reputable source. A reputable source on a scientific topic will almost NEVER be a site that’s entirely about a single highly specific topic and be painting it all negatively or all positively.

  • Envidon@feddit.nl
    3·
    2 days ago

    Hey OP, I looked through the paper you linked in another comment (https://doi.org/10.1007/s00484-013-0660-0) I am unsure if you know but you can access the full thing through Scihub. Look at 2d and h, and look at the error bars around these lines. According to this data maybe it increases risk, but almost just as likely it decreases risk. I think we can be quick to dismiss things that don’t fit into our current scientific understanding. If you’re asking this purely because you are curious and want to know, the answer could be: maybe? It’s hard to really say there are so many other variables ans the effect is clearly quite minor. The authors offer some potential meganisms in their discussion.

    If you’re asking because you are concernes for your health, or someone is trying to sell you something, the only reasonable answer is no. As the paper says temperature and pressure give way more signifcant effects, are you going to live in a controlled atmosphere the rest of your life, or control this in some other way? And consider as others have mentioned the mri machine, it gives a way stronger magnetic signal, and hospitals use it on people that already have bad hearts. If there was really an effect doctors all over the world would have noticed don’t you think?

  • radix@lemmy.worldEnglish
    18·
    2 days ago

    I can’t vouch for the complete accuracy of the numbers here, but if they’re true, 500 nanotesla is basically identical to standing 1 foot away from a running dishwasher, and less than using an electric can opener or a vacuum cleaner.

  • cardboardboxfort@lemmy.world
    14·
    2 days ago

    Earths magnetic field isn’t even powerful enough to make naturally occurring magnets (lodestones) with. So no, it’s not anywhere near powerful enough to mess with your cells. There maybe some biological functions are an influenced or can sense the magnetic field (one theory why birds seemingly know which direction north is) but as far as I know these are all theories or myth (men have metal in their nose which they use to sense north which is why they never get lost.)

    Naturally occurring magnetic rocks, for anyone who is curious, are created by lightning striking iron-rich deposits in the ground. You can make a ferrous metal magnetic in a similar way (quick bursts of electricity.)

    • vaionko@sopuli.xyz
      2·
      2 days ago

      men have metal in their nose which they use to sense north which is why they never get lost

      Is this how I find out I’m not a man lol

    • coasterrider@lemmy.cafeOPEnglish
      25·
      2 days ago

      The narrative isn’t so much the static magnetic field but fluctuating/time varying magnetic fields induced on Earth during magnetic storms. When a magnetic field changes it can induce currents in tissues. It’s proportional to both the strength of the field and the rate of change. During an extreme geomagnetic storm, the rate of change can be up to 500 nanoteslas per minute.

      It’s being argued that these tiny (less than 1% of Earth’s static field strength) fluctuations in Earth’s magnetic field are stressing cells and the body, resulting in the correlations between geomagnetic storms and heart attacks, strokes, autonomic dysfunction, and other serious illnesses.

      • cardboardboxfort@lemmy.world
        15·
        2 days ago

        Still insignificant. Solar storms and fluctuating magnetic fields have been happening for longer than humans have been here and have been happening while humans were here. Theres tons of pseudo-science gaining popularity online, can’t believe astrology is still so popular with people, and this sounds like one of them to be honest.

  • SippyCup@lemmy.world
    3·
    2 days ago

    This sounds like woo. People believe the phase of the moon has an effect too.

    Humans are really good at finding correlating events and linking them together, even when they’re completely unrelated. Often, the assumptions that lead to the conclusion don’t get in the way of being correct.

    However when a link is completely unfalsifiable, unprovable, and unlikely, we’re also really good at making up bullshit and convincing ourselves it’s true.

    You’ve kinda already made up your mind what category you want to fall in to, seems like you came here looking for justification, not falsification. So, I won’t waste any more energy on this.

    The short answer is no.

    The long answer is there is absolutely no scientific data to support this claim, and anyone that tells you otherwise is sniffing the same bullshit they’re selling.

  • cosmicrose@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    13·
    2 days ago

    My bullshit alarm is going off. MRI machines use very powerful magnets for imaging: usually around 1.5 Teslas, but some go up to 10 T, and there are concepts for machines up to 14 T. That is a billion times stronger than a 500 nanotesla fluctuation. And MRIs are completely safe. If a 500 nanotesla fluctuation was a cellular stressor, I could only imagine that a 10 T MRI would cause very obvious damage.

    • Alex@lemmy.ml
      1·
      2 days ago

      Not completely safe, you do for example have to take care there are no chunks of metal in you or attached to you.

    • coasterrider@lemmy.cafeOPEnglish
      19·
      2 days ago

      Mine did, too, then I looked into it and it does seem there’s a lot of research concluding that fluctuations in the Earth’s magnetic field during geomagnetic storms is causing more heart attacks, nervous system dysregulation, etc. https://magneticstorms.co/health/heart but I’m not as well versed in science compared to many of the people on Lemmy.

      • cosmicrose@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        1·
        2 days ago

        That’s pretty interesting, honestly. It’s a good sign that the site cites specific research and gives names, at least. So that beats my speculation. I’m not qualified to interpret any of the research though. I get the impression this phenomenon needs more research before regular folks can draw any of their own conclusions.

  • BreadOven@lemmy.world
    2·
    2 days ago

    Looking at the comments, seems like op really wants to believe this is a thing. Take the advice from all the other posts and accept it’s just junk science op.

  • ElChinchilla@lemmy.world
    7·
    2 days ago

    Not going to pretend I have looked into this whatsoever, but just consider the forces you are evaluating here. Planetary magnetism and solar ionization. You are a critter on a planet that came from other critters that came from other critters that came from a crit (single cell joke) and all those things were all subjected to these forces for hundreds of millions of years. Planet itself going on 5 billion years. Aside from that pesky moon slamming into us, and that one time all the blizzards (bird lizards) got annihilated, pretty okay place in the universe to be alive on.

    Whatever sources you are diving into are probably not worth your mental effort. Maybe use a bamboo toothbrush and less plastic or something else manageable.