I don’t understand why people live this book so much, we couldn’t stomach the misogyny and the ableism in the first book. It was so bad that the DNF (do not finish) vote was unanimous in book club.
Misogyny and ableism? I’m curious what you’re referring to.
Edit: (Not questioning your opinion of the series; not everything is for everyone. But I’ve gotten a lot of people to read this series and haven’t heard that take, so I’m curious.)
I also couldnt finish the book cause the 30% I read was 100% misogyny.
Carls exgirlfriend is everything icels see in confident gurls (ok she cheated thats not so nice ). We met the woman who lives next to carl for like a page and she is a portrait of the old mean woman. The next woman is dead and naked, a goblin woman has like 4 lines and one is she wants to fuck carl. The first boss fight is between a overweight latina woman who is a hoarder and Carl. The way the author describes her is just horrible and i dont understand how so many people get past that chapter.
Each of these characters could appear in a dungeon scenario, and there are also women who want to have sex directly and are looted until they’re naked, which makes sense in the book. There are women who cheat on their partners and nagging neighbors, as well as overweight women. But I find it disturbingly obvious that all the women who appear so far are dead and naked, disgusting, and unbearable. The way Carl views the boss fight, without any critical thinking or empathy, is also terrible. The book’s concept is good, but unfortunately, it’s full of misogyny. Good idea, poorly executed, and the writing style is anything but good.
Because it’s impossible for women to be flawed and abusive, and if there’s an ugly person deliberately made uglier by colonizing aliens to dehumanize them that’s obviously sexism?
There are plenty of great women characters in the book, you just decided women can never be the problem in a relationship without it being “problematic” and went downhill from there.
Hell, the most predatory voice in the first book is the male-voiced AI.
That all said, it is hard to tell where Dinniman stands exactly on the spectrum of “the overt sexualization of some of the women and men is specifically a commentary on the commercialization of the indigenous body by colonizing forces” and “that’s a good excuse but he’s also horny and trying to sell books.”
I’m going to generally agree, but I will say that Dinniman really doesn’t hold back when he describes fat people. He uses evocative language generally but some lines felt more like attacks.
I didn’t get far enough to critique the entire book. However these were the moments in my limited read that really irked me.
Ableism - There are two ableist jokes in the first 80 pages and they are not even remotely funny.
”Nor am I wearing a cloak that makes me look like I won a participation trophy at the special needs comic con, Carl.” - this quote came out of nowhere and is entirely unnecessary and I’m sure I would find more like this were I to continue. I understand the cat is supposed to be sassy but really?
Misogyny - The plot frequently involves women’s naked corpses and rarely features clothed living women.
The first three women who appear in the book are 1) his cheating ex-girlfriend whom he narrowly avoided calling a bitch, 2) a fat Latina monster whom he literally puts on a leash as she begs for death, and 3) a dead woman.
I know I would have a better argument if I had read the entire book but I just couldn’t stomach it anymore and the reason I couldn’t is because of this quote from a review of the book:
“I think what we get is the result of privileged people who don’t have to care. So those books are simply careless. They are tactless, tasteless, callous, have zero empathy and why? Because they don’t need to be anything else. Again, they don’t need to care. Isn’t it lucky to be on that side, to be the bro-y person who has the luxury to be amused here? Anyone else might end up the butt of those jokes. But it’s just jokes right?
It is tiring that some people on this planet can afford to be careless, and to write careless shit, and to publish careless shit, and to laugh at careless shit. And they can do that because everyone else is supposed to stomach the resulting slack for them, to take it all in strides.”
This reads like someone cherry picking moments to prove their point. Having actually read most of the series I didn’t feel like the author was singling out disabled or women, so much as equally shitting on everybody. Carl’s father for instance is a far bigger stereotypical piece of shit deadbeat Dad than his GF was a stereotypical manipulative cheater. Carl was also greatly disturbed by the killing of the hoarder woman and is still referencing how fucked up it is into the seventh book.
Overall the writing isn’t amazing, and it’s trying to be entertaining more than send any messages or change any minds or opinions. You’re reading way too deep into what’s supposed to be easily consumed entertainment.
Heaven forbid a cat who had a narcissist (also a cheater) as a partner, and who lived with a guy who was in the coast guard don’t speak in Tumblr for you.
Bringing up the genocide is a whataboutism, bringing it up is just a way to detract from the issues of ableism and misogyny. If you have a problem with the genocide that you should voice that separately instead of trying to shit on my very real argument of the book’s misogyny and ableism.
It’s a fun light read heavy with D&D themes. What I found most interesting (and this is fleshed out more in later volumes) was how the book explored NPC lives and memories.
Honestly, if this first book was too much for you, the rest of the series probably isn’t for you. It’s ok not to like things that are popular.
It’s just so dumb to call a book out for stuff like that without actually finishing the book. The books are offensive to fucking everybody on purpose. Like if they think Bea is an offensive representation of a woman, what are they feeling about her boyfriend who’s basically the even more stereotyped male equivalent?
Yeah the first time reading I stopped at the mass baby murdering. Second try I forced myself through it and loved the later books. I think the first book is by far the worst of the series.
I don’t understand why people live this book so much, we couldn’t stomach the misogyny and the ableism in the first book. It was so bad that the DNF (do not finish) vote was unanimous in book club.
Boooooo bad opinion
You and your book club sound very conscientious and fun.
Thank you for adding such insightful commentary.
You are welcome.
Misogyny and ableism? I’m curious what you’re referring to.
Edit: (Not questioning your opinion of the series; not everything is for everyone. But I’ve gotten a lot of people to read this series and haven’t heard that take, so I’m curious.)
I also couldnt finish the book cause the 30% I read was 100% misogyny. Carls exgirlfriend is everything icels see in confident gurls (ok she cheated thats not so nice ). We met the woman who lives next to carl for like a page and she is a portrait of the old mean woman. The next woman is dead and naked, a goblin woman has like 4 lines and one is she wants to fuck carl. The first boss fight is between a overweight latina woman who is a hoarder and Carl. The way the author describes her is just horrible and i dont understand how so many people get past that chapter. Each of these characters could appear in a dungeon scenario, and there are also women who want to have sex directly and are looted until they’re naked, which makes sense in the book. There are women who cheat on their partners and nagging neighbors, as well as overweight women. But I find it disturbingly obvious that all the women who appear so far are dead and naked, disgusting, and unbearable. The way Carl views the boss fight, without any critical thinking or empathy, is also terrible. The book’s concept is good, but unfortunately, it’s full of misogyny. Good idea, poorly executed, and the writing style is anything but good.
Because it’s impossible for women to be flawed and abusive, and if there’s an ugly person deliberately made uglier by colonizing aliens to dehumanize them that’s obviously sexism?
There are plenty of great women characters in the book, you just decided women can never be the problem in a relationship without it being “problematic” and went downhill from there.
Hell, the most predatory voice in the first book is the male-voiced AI.
That all said, it is hard to tell where Dinniman stands exactly on the spectrum of “the overt sexualization of some of the women and men is specifically a commentary on the commercialization of the indigenous body by colonizing forces” and “that’s a good excuse but he’s also horny and trying to sell books.”
I’m going to generally agree, but I will say that Dinniman really doesn’t hold back when he describes fat people. He uses evocative language generally but some lines felt more like attacks.
When he describes
fat peopleeveryone. That’s part of the fun. See also The Juicer in the very same book.In the later books (bk 3-7), some of the strongest friends/fighters alongside Carl and Donut are female characters.
It sounds like someone called him out on his problematic writing.
I didn’t get far enough to critique the entire book. However these were the moments in my limited read that really irked me.
Ableism - There are two ableist jokes in the first 80 pages and they are not even remotely funny. ”Nor am I wearing a cloak that makes me look like I won a participation trophy at the special needs comic con, Carl.” - this quote came out of nowhere and is entirely unnecessary and I’m sure I would find more like this were I to continue. I understand the cat is supposed to be sassy but really?
Misogyny - The plot frequently involves women’s naked corpses and rarely features clothed living women. The first three women who appear in the book are 1) his cheating ex-girlfriend whom he narrowly avoided calling a bitch, 2) a fat Latina monster whom he literally puts on a leash as she begs for death, and 3) a dead woman.
I know I would have a better argument if I had read the entire book but I just couldn’t stomach it anymore and the reason I couldn’t is because of this quote from a review of the book:
“I think what we get is the result of privileged people who don’t have to care. So those books are simply careless. They are tactless, tasteless, callous, have zero empathy and why? Because they don’t need to be anything else. Again, they don’t need to care. Isn’t it lucky to be on that side, to be the bro-y person who has the luxury to be amused here? Anyone else might end up the butt of those jokes. But it’s just jokes right? It is tiring that some people on this planet can afford to be careless, and to write careless shit, and to publish careless shit, and to laugh at careless shit. And they can do that because everyone else is supposed to stomach the resulting slack for them, to take it all in strides.”
The full review lives here and if you care it goes more in-depth into the problems of the book: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/7548962785
This reads like someone cherry picking moments to prove their point. Having actually read most of the series I didn’t feel like the author was singling out disabled or women, so much as equally shitting on everybody. Carl’s father for instance is a far bigger stereotypical piece of shit deadbeat Dad than his GF was a stereotypical manipulative cheater. Carl was also greatly disturbed by the killing of the hoarder woman and is still referencing how fucked up it is into the seventh book.
Overall the writing isn’t amazing, and it’s trying to be entertaining more than send any messages or change any minds or opinions. You’re reading way too deep into what’s supposed to be easily consumed entertainment.
Heaven forbid a cat who had a narcissist (also a cheater) as a partner, and who lived with a guy who was in the coast guard don’t speak in Tumblr for you.
I don’t know what any of this jeans, I’ve never been on Tumblr.
Please don’t fix this typo lol
You objected to ableism and misogyny but not the genocide??
Guess we didn’t get that far.
EDIT to be clear this is a whataboutism and is just being made to detract from the issues of misogyny and ableism.
Uhh the genocide happens in the first 5 pages? Like a neighbour gets her head cut off by aliens in the opening scene.
Bringing up the genocide is a whataboutism, bringing it up is just a way to detract from the issues of ableism and misogyny. If you have a problem with the genocide that you should voice that separately instead of trying to shit on my very real argument of the book’s misogyny and ableism.
Could you give some examples? The slavery and genocide seem to be bigger problems for the characters so maybe I didn’t see what you’re seeing
It’s a fun light read heavy with D&D themes. What I found most interesting (and this is fleshed out more in later volumes) was how the book explored NPC lives and memories.
Honestly, if this first book was too much for you, the rest of the series probably isn’t for you. It’s ok not to like things that are popular.
It’s just so dumb to call a book out for stuff like that without actually finishing the book. The books are offensive to fucking everybody on purpose. Like if they think Bea is an offensive representation of a woman, what are they feeling about her boyfriend who’s basically the even more stereotyped male equivalent?
Yeah the first time reading I stopped at the mass baby murdering. Second try I forced myself through it and loved the later books. I think the first book is by far the worst of the series.
k bye