First things first, I don’t doubt it is a bad thing, considering who supports it and who doesn’t.
But my question is what exactly is the issue and what is the current and proposed voting process when it comes to IDs?
Here in my EU country, you have to show some version of a government ID, be it an ID card, drivers license or passport. And we don’t have to pre-register to vote.
in other countries its feasible and easy to have a national iD, in the states you have to go through a huge process to get one. also having more people votes hurts the estasblishment politicians in general.
If the government wants to make everyone have an certain ID to vote, it has to be the governments responsibility to actively make sure everyone gets that ID without any cost or hassle. We know that’s not what will happen because the whole point of this is that the Republicans want to disenfranchise certain people.
The knockdown problem is that creating such an ID is a mere half a thought from “vere are your papers?” That’s basically a guaranteed outcome.
they also dont want everyone to vote, lower voter turn often results in having R wins, and or have the run of the mill coporate dem win too.
I will give you an example I overheard for five whole minutes while at the early voting place in my state:
We present our ID and it has to match with the record. You have to confirm your name and address by saying them out loud to the poll worker. Easy, right? Not for this one guy. I’m not sure what the specific issue was, but he could not follow the instructions. The poll worker asked for his name, which went ok. Then she asked for his address. He could not give the address. She asked again. He gave his name. She asked again. He couldn’t answer. She tried all variations of “where do you live?” She was willing to settle for him writing it down. She got to the point where she asked if he could read it off the ID card and he couldn’t. I have no idea what it took, but he was eventually given a ballot about the time I left.
There are many reasons he may not have been able to understand what to do or verbalize (some kind of disability, maybe a language barrier), and it was a bullshit step that depended entirely on who was behind the table and their level of patience. It could have easily disenfranchised him despite having an ID.
It’s a whole can of worms. For the golden standards of what counts as an ID, getting a State ID, Driver’s License, or Passport can be hard. My first time getting a passport was an over 6 month long journey and was hell, getting my Driver’s License was a long journey and cost me like $30, and then what counts as a good form of ID?
Back when I lived in Texas, my license for Concealed Carry worked as a valid form of ID but my Student ID when I was attending Uni there wasn’t. So why is a CCL a valid form of ID but a student ID isn’t?
My opposition to Voter ID is because of this, it would be handled on a state level and not the federal level. This would disenfranchise a lot of people who might not be able to get a valid form of ID.
DMVs are slow and in many areas hard to get to. I know people who live like 100 miles away from any and that is where you get your either State ID or Driver’s License. How are they supposed to prove who they are?
I would support a Voter ID law if and only if we had a free and easily accesible way to get a form of identification.
paspport you have to make appt which can be weeks or months out to schedule your picture, and the process too and only at specific USPS offices. and apparently red states never worried about having to get passports/birth certificates, because theier voting is not disenfranchised there. when the republicans reccommended last year, they freaked out as red areas are unlikely to have post offices that afford passport services.
Not a single thing you say changes my opinion.
I’m pretty sure they are agreeing with your point.
Maybe. I’m not literate.
It would only let people with their names matching their birth certificates vote, disenfranchising trans people and married women that have taken their spouse’s name.
Also immigrants whose US name doesn’t match their original birth cert exactly. For example, in my birth country we have two last names but I dropped one in the US.
And the dozen of us men who took our wife’s name
Oh yes, sorry, you’re right.
The problem is primarily that it falsely validates a fascist conspiracy theory which is being weaponized to dismantle western democracy. That’s really most of it.
If it validates a conspiracy theory then has it not proven the conspiracy theory to be more likly. When one is doing science and one discovered evidence that supports a conclusion you cannot dismiss the evidence or change you methodology to avoid the evidence simply because you don’t like what the evidence implies. Follow the science mate don’t change ur methodology cos the science disagrees with ur preconceived notions.
Voter fraud is incredibly rare in the US. The conspiracy theory is that elections are horrifically insecure and the result of every vote is fraudulent.
The proposed voter id laws take that as an inroad to erode the right to vote for all citizens.
How can u know its rare worhout checking id? I’m not a us citizen whats stopping me from walking into a polling booth and voting? It seems pretty insecure to me. One cannot simply assert an assumption and proclaim it to be true.
In 25 years of records, there have been fewer than 1500 convictions for voter fraud. In Arizona, there were 36 proven cases against 42 million ballots cast.
What’s stopping me from walking into a polling booth and voting?
The wonderful thing here is you aren’t American, so you convince yourself far more thoroughly than my words ever could. The election is Tuesday, come over and try to vote.
I’m with you mate, as an European and after reading some of the comments I still have no clue how they monitor voting without any ID… I assume everyone has to pre-register but how do they do that without an ID? Birth certificates? Also, I’m antifascist which doesn’t mean I don’t believe in organizing society in an efficient way to minimize the chance of cheating to a minimum. In an ideal world there would be no borders and we could vote wherever we live but as I understand the US seems to have a vulnerable system and fascists are using it as an argument in favour of their current agenda… It’s likely a complex issue to solve due to other complex issues that have been left unsolved throughout the years but not admiting it to “own the fascist Republicans” is not the way to approach it imo.
Registering to vote is done by proving citizenship and residency, this is the step at which documents are checked. Doing it again at the polls duplicates work for little benefit.
The US system isn’t vulnerable. They meaningfully swing an election, it would require massed coordination between millions of people spread across hundreds of precincts. Each one would need to know that the person they are pretending to be has not voted and is not planning to vote after them - multiple voters for a single voter registration begins an investigation.
Voter rolls are purged frequently, so inactive registrations are not widely available for this kind of fraud. The rules vary by state, but generally if the voter does not cast a ballot for 2 consecutive elections they are deactivated.
Voters can only vote at their assigned polling places, meaning any large scale fraud must be distributed, increasing the number of people who must be involved and decreasing the likelihood it goes undetected.
We don’t have a free national ID, even state IDs cost money. There should be no money involved in the right to vote.
Every single state with voter id requirements either gives free voter id cards or waives fees on existing id forms if u state if for the purposes of voting.
Interestingly I come from a nation where voting is not a right but a duty. Yes in Australia you get fined if you don’t vote. U can purposely spoil ur ballot that’s fine and that goes in the statistics but u still need to show up and purposely do that.
Same thing in EU. At least over here in Finland. But, the passport is paid for by the social service if you are on their money.
I’m pretty sure ours doesn’t work like that. But also, a passport isn’t as common to have here.
Yeah, but here nothing works without having an ID or a passport, so everyone must have access to it.
Canada. No free national ID card. About $15 a year, renewed every 5 years. Your health ID and driver ID can be separate or same-card, and can be used to fulfill “government-issued picture ID” required to vote; otherwise it’s a passport, probably, which is a little more.
Who are the US modeling themselves after when they demand a free ID card before it is required to verify identity for voting?
It’s not a model, it’s a guaranteed constitutional right that has been upheld a LOT of times in the supreme court over the last two centuries. You cannot have a poll tax, period. In any possible way, shape or form. It cannot cost a single cent to vote. Ever. Under any possible circumstances, without a significant constitutional amendment. It cannot be changed via law, and any laws passed that do require ID but do not make IDs free are undeniably unconstitutional based on 200 years of precedent.
So we find ourselves trapped in a loop, because voting is an enshrined right.
It’s also… just not needed. The only way you can register to vote is by proving your identity and citizenship. Using the free process that exists in every state and most US territories (not for federal elections in the territories unless they overlap with a state).
We aren’t Canada. Voting is a right and it shouldn’t be tied to any fee.
Having government ID of any kind (in fact, any documentation of any kind) isn’t strictly required to vote in Canada.
Free id and voting are technically distinct concerns.
We get it Canada sucks you don’t got to convince us. Lick that boot and pay that poll tax son.
What really gets to me is that even if, even if there were a few dozen or even a few hundred scattered votes that shouldn’t count…no presidential election is decided by a such a small number of invalid votes. There’s so much effort by the GOP to suggest fraud will cost them the election when its just not true. The amount of effort someone would have to go through just to get a 2nd vote is monumental, and for what 1 extra vote among 10s of thousands… And the risk of getting g caught is high and penalties are severe. Vote fraud is not worth the risk.
Here’s a perspective. Some years ago a nonprofit (aclu maybe?) offered a large sum of money for an example of voter fraud that would have been prevented by an ID, they never had to pay out, iirc. If IDs don’t prevent voter fraud, why require the extra burden?
The US has about 3.8 million valid citizens with no official records, and about another 21 million that would need to jump through very difficult hoops in order to obtain their documentation. It’s called the Burned Counties phenomenon, because records were kept at the county level, that had a court house burned down. Or flooded, or destroyed by unrest. We like variety in our destruction.
As will come to no surprise, the majority of those affected, are minorities who vote for Democrats. So the laws being proposed are designed around blocking them from voting, not getting them documented to vote.
also its designed to block black votes specifically, they are a large populaiton in red states that generally vote D trend wise.
That’s crazy! It’s like 7% of the population! I feel that complicates life way beyond voting rights.
Meanwhile, I have friends who received EU citizenship based in ancestry and literary contacted the relevant municipalities here and got birth records from their great grand parents. Of course, I am sure going that far back, many records were also lost.
its actually somewhat difficult to get citizenship in the us, surprisingly enough. thats why you hear sometimes people overstay thier visas alot.
There’s a postulate that a lot of the areas around the world with “oldest alive humans” are actually just places with bad/lost records. Especially if it lets you claim retirement benefits early.
I say this as response to show that there are a lot of places with bad records.
Japan has a large percentage of the oldest people in the world. The country has been digging into this to understand what is special about Japan. The biggest reason people in Japan live so long is because their children lie about them still being alive.
That’s insterearing and unsurprising.
Yep, a large enough chunk of the population to sway entire elections, which is why it’s an ongoing fight. And also why there’s never a push to fix it.
also benefits the parties that dont want any change besides the republicans.
Closer to 1%, but still surprising. I’m not sure how one functions without identification.
Legally, as long as you have a social security number, as in you know the number, there’s no problem. Driving can be hard but most of these people have lived and worked within 5 miles of where they were born for hundreds of years now. But besides that you don’t need your ID for much.
First thing is that it is up to states to administer elections and make their own rules and laws. Given the record of the current president, many people and states are not very interested in giving up power over that to the federal government, who keeps trying to claim and take control of state-run elections anyway.
In the US, people are not automatically given IDs or driver licenses. They require a fair amount of time, other paperwork, and fees to procure. Therefore having one is automatically more likely for people with more time (retired, better job, etc), money, organized lives and physical ability since you must show up in person.
By organized lives, I mean people of higher economic status are more likely to live in stable situations where they have social security cards, passports and birth certificates easily accessible. If you don’t have those documents - perhaps they were lost in a move, never given by parents, never applied for - it costs a fair bit to get them. A replacement SS card is free. A duplicate birth certificate can be $20-30. The average charge for an ID/DL is about $40. A copy of a marriage or divorce certificate is typically $10-40. A replacing naturalization certificate is almost $1,400.
Getting these documents could take weeks and an amount of money that’s trivial to higher income people and significant to lower income people. Like voting, if you have a white collar job, it’s fairly easy to take time out to do it. If you have an hourly job with little flexibility and/or lack a vehicle, it’s much more difficult to go to government offices to obtain this paperwork. Some might ask, why would someone not have at least a driver’s license or ID? Perhaps it expired, was lost, they moved and never got the paperwork, or couldn’t afford the fees and time. Younger people and non-white people are known to be less likely to have the documents that would be required. It also creates barriers for armed service members.
Another aspect is the bill says women must prove their citizenship with documents that match their original, non-married name. So if you have a birth certificate that says Jane Doe but all your other documents say Jane Smith, since it was changed after marriage, that won’t work. The requirements would also make it harder for trans people to register.
Next, there’s the changes to registration process. Currently 42 states allow you to register online or by mail. That would be nixed. Voters would have to show up at an office in person to register. Currently signing under penalty of perjury that you are a U.S. citizen is considered adequate, along with proof of residency and documents like an ID (which required the aforementioned birth certificate etc to get in the first place). Under the proposed law, a drivers license would not be adequate in 90% of states. In some areas, voters must travel over 200 miles to get to an election office in person.
Another question is why this would be necessary. While Republicans have been claiming that non-citizens voting in federal elections is a major problem, there is no actual evidence of that. In fact, data from U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services says 0.04% of voters might be ineligible, and that’s considered likely an overcount. When states have tried similar laws in the past, it ended up disenfranchising far, far more legitimate voters than the number of illegitimate voters thwarted.
So what’s the actual effect of this? Mainly, to make it harder for poor people and women to vote, two groups who are more likely to vote for Democrats.
Thank you for the very trhourough explanation. That’s all fucking distopian.
I can imagine the issue with lack of easy access to government IDs also has other consequences for lower income people.
It makes the homelessness trap nearly impossible to escape without outside help.
Yeah, when I was homeless after high school and couch surfing, I needed to get a friend to notarize a statement that I was living with him to get my ID so I could get a job. I got lucky, I don’t know how I would have done it if I was sleeping rough.
How difficult/expensive/time-consuming is it to get a government ID in Europe? Is it something that’s sent to you with basically no action on your part?
Unfortunately its neither free nor automatic, though it should be.
It’s about €75 in my country, and you need to go in person. But in general, at least our labor laws are much better so its easier to take PTO for these things,and public transport is good to get there. Most people get them at 14 years old, when it becomes mandatory to have one.
That depends completely on the country. There can be very big differences!
In Finland it works so that you go to some company that will take a photo of you and uploads it to the police’s database. Then you go to the web site of the police, log in using your online banking passwords and apply for the new ID card or passport. The site might say “visiting the police station required”, in which case you must go physically to a police station to show your face. That was necessary for example when I was getting the first passports for my children. Or if you have no previous ID.
The new ID card or passport is delivered to the nearest R-Kioski (think Seven-Eleven) and you get it from there by showing your previous ID. If it’s your first ID, you probably need to get it in person at the police station when it’s ready.
USA has a rule that people can visit it visa-free only if they are from a country where passports and ID cards are renewed every 5 years or more often. Therefore, in EU the passports must be renewed every 5 years instead of every 10 years like it is in USA, where US laws regarding this do not apply.
Taking the photo typically costs about 25 €, the actual document is something like 50 or 60 €. So, altogether about 75 € or so.
And the official instructions for how to apply for an ID card are here: https://poliisi.fi/en/how-to-apply-for-an-identity-card
Another question is why this would be necessary. While Republicans have been claiming that non-citizens voting in federal elections is a major problem, there is no actual evidence of that.
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2026/10/28/dozens-illegal-aliens-arrested-nationwide-voter-fraud-crackdown
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/article/four-things-to-know-about-noncitizen-voting/
I said there’s no evidence it’s a major issue. The numbers mentioned there are extremely small compared to tens of millions of votes. One person? Wow. 16 people? Im sure it was worth their time and taxpayer money. The stat I cited said .04%. Others say less. No elections are won or lost by .04%.
The Heritage Foundation looked into this and found a total of 100 cases since 1982.
https://electionfraud.heritage.org/search (Choose “alien” in the bottom menu).
The idea that non-citizens would take the time and risk to vote illegally sounds pretty stupid to me, and it seems they agree.
I wonder which side the folks committing fraud admired
Not sure if that matters for like 5 people. Anyway, looking at the Heritage Foundation data, many of the illicit voters were Hispanic, a group that went for Trump in 2024 and are seen as a major bloc that got him elected. Most people from Central America are Catholic, and tend to be socially conservative. This group is supporting Trump less these days, but this goes back to 1982, as noted. What was your guess?
Ah yes, a handful of cases over multiple elections. On a population of 340+ million people. You just prived the GPs point.
Oh look, someone who doesn’t understand basic statistics.
What it comes down to is the whole “presenting proof of identity” idea isn’t terrible in itself for the most part, it’s a) what counts as proof, b) how is that ID issued and what obstacles are they adding to get it, and what will it cost you, b) how is it checked and otherwise used to track you.
The hard part to understand for those of us in civilized countries is, you have to figure all this out in a country where no one can trust anything from anyone ever. Governments, people, churches companies, charities, not even yourself. You can’t ever trust anyone in the US, because almost everyone is lying about something, and there’s never any consequences for it. Their real motto should be “Caveat Emptor.”
EU countries try really hard to register all births with the proper documents that then lead you to get an ID or passport later on in life. Everybody is used to needing an ID, being able to show it upon request, and using it to vote as well. Most people are just fine with all of that.
The US doesn’t follow this logic. For example, a person born earlier the last century in the deep south may not have received a birth certificate. The birth could have just been written into the household bible. So when you require a voter ID and to get that you need a birth certificate, you have eliminated a possible voter. And what if I added this bible practice was done predominantly in African-American communities. There will be other loopholes where people will be required to produce paperwork they can only acquire after a Kafkaesque tour through various administrations. Funny enough a lot of them affecting minority communities first and foremost.
If you want to do a proper voter ID, you need to first convince the people this isn’t government overreach (good luck). And then make sure everybody has an equal chance to get this ID, e.g. by issuing missing birth certificates. The laws that generally want to introduce this do not care about equal chances. They tend to target voters who vote for the other side.
Also remember that SSN was never EVER supposed to be used as a personal identifier. Everything about our system of identification is dumb.
Or, in the case of my grandpa, your first name isn’t on your birth certificate. His just said Boy Lastname. I don’t remember if it was because his parents hadn’t picked a name for him yet or what, but that’s what his birth certificate said. I’ve seen it.
make sure everybody has an equal chance
But surely nobody would want this?
/s
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I have never not had to show my ID to vote. I’m 50 and have voted every time I had an opportunity. Where can you vote without proof that you are who you are and are at the right polling place?
I’m 58, have never showed an ID.
So much consistency we have. This is such an unserious country.
No one has ever asked me for ID to vote. We just say our name and someone crossed our name off of the list in the big book of registered voters (it went electronic this year). There is nothing stopping someone from giving the name of any registered voter in our district and voting. Our judge of elections has had people come in and it turned out that their name had already been crossed off. They call the county who issues them a special ballot and they get to vote.
I think it depends on what part of the country and how rural you are maybe 
While I currently live and vote in rural Georgia, I reached voting age in a densely populated county in Florida. Maybe it’s a southern states thing.
I don’t think I have to show any right now in a smaller town in the north east.
Well, it would disenfranchise a whole lot of people due to difficult to obtain (expensive, time consuming) on short notice. If it passed today many would not be able to vote in an upcoming election. It would specifically impact a large block of voters who tend to lean left. Oh, and we already use perfectly fine government issued IDs. This is just an extra hoop for poor people and women. In other words, not needed, voter suppression, targeted, and a poll tax.
