So killing is not okay except when its internet-approved vigilantism?
Example: “Polititian commutes death sentences” Lemmy be like “good”, but then when “Politician condemns assassination” Lemmy have a problem with condeming political violence?
(Like Gavin Newsom commutes all death row immates in California vs when Democratic polititians condemned Luigi Mangione)
Or are these different groups of Lemmings?
Punch up, not down. Violence used to fight for freedom and against an oppressor: good. Violence by the state: bad. This is not an inconsistent position.
It is though. See Charlie Kirk’s murder. He wasn’t the state, he didn’t kill anybody, yet his murder is openly relished.
He disagreed with their “state”, so his assassination is celebrated.
To be clear, I can’t talk for all people, so this is just my opinion. Charlie Kirk definitely caused violence that killed people. He was an agitator and escalated violence against vulnerable people. He lied about all sorts of things including gun violence and worked for his whole career to undermine the safety of people he disliked.
When he died the overall hatred against trans people was reduced. The opposition to gun control was reduced. The trolling and doxing was reduced. His entire ecosystem was disrupted when he died.
If an individual does something wrong by killing someone that has a certain moral valence to it. If they do the same to a group of people I don’t see any difference, they are still acting towards people with violence, it is just diluted and obscured. The fact that one violent right wing person used a gun to kill another right wing person is ironic and has a certain symmetry, but the part that makes me feel no sympathy for Kirk is that his actions were causing harm up to and including death to people and when he was killed the overall level of death was reduced, not increased.
No state should have the power to kill citizens. This is not justice or a good thing to have in your society. But in a society where murder happens there definitely are worse and better instances, and this particular instance was a net reduction in deaths. All of the people who would have been killed by Kirk’s rhetoric are alive because he died. It wasn’t right, but it was less wrong.
So no, he was not the state acting on others, but he was a person acting to kill others just as his assassin. He caused deaths just as surely as the shooter and there was irony in it being by a white right winger with a gun. The reduction in deaths was worth celebrating just as commuting the sentences of those on death row is. It is morally right to want less death and torment, and while it would be morally wrong to cause a death, from a utilitarian perspective I would not quibble over the results here.
Well, the actual thing is, we didn’t have anything to do with that.
I’m not glad that a person died. But the irony of his final words being about how gun violence is the necessary price of our society right before being shot in the neck is Chef’s Kiss.
His last words were about dogwhistles.
“How many mass shootings were comitted by trans people last year?”
“Too many!”
*conservative cheering*
“How many mass shootings were there in general last year?”
“counting or not counting ‘gang violence’?” (Read : Was it ethnic minorities?)
*gets shot, conservatives run up to get bloodsoaked merch to sell later*
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/elder-tiktok-eldertiktok11-video-at-charlie-kirk-shooting
I’d prefer no violence. Since that’s currently not an option, I prefer the violence be pointed at oppressors like Kirk. Nothing of value was lost.
He wasn’t the state, but he made his entire career out of punching down so belonged in the same category. He helped cause a lot of undue suffering for a lot of people.
He was the most prominent front-facing figure of the largest propaganda group supporting the administration.
He disagreed with the state allowing black people to be pilots. Oppression through money is still oppression.
You read some obituaries with pleasure
I love how several of the commenters disagreeing with you just result in reinforcing your point.
But, yea, this is the overall thread. For many, it’s a team sport and being on the right team means your murdering is OK.
Kirk was OK with people being shot. “Small price to pay for freedom”. Bet he changed his mind right after he was the one. I do not celebrate his shooting, but I prefer him being shot over innocent people. And I know you understand that but decide to be a cunt. Don’t be like Kirk.