Everyone knows the democrats will do this every time. “Vote blue no matter who” is a crock of shit and every single person who gives you shit for not voting for Harris and her shitty campaign that pandered to the right and Israel can be directed to party leadership’s behavior here and in New York
If they can run the risk of handing over mayorships to republicans because the “blue” candidate isn’t correctly blue then logically I can say I’m not going to back any genocide enabling, insider trading, corporate slaves who will sell out any marginalized group to keep their entrenched power (see newsoms pandering anti trans bullshit to charlie kirk).
“Vote blue no matter who” is a direct result of FPTP voting. Until that’s fixed, yeah keep voting blue…if there isn’t a more progressive candidate.
We need a viable third party and the time to start one was November 6, 2024. We’re past the point to make a dent in the midterms (assuming we have elections) but we have time to run progressive candidates.
You can always do something but its efficacy will vary. For example, spinning up a third party candidate a week before the election would be pointless.
If you look at my post history on Nov 5 has several posts on starting a third party. Right after the election would have been perfect. A lot of runway to find candidates, push them into the spotlight, have them lead the protests against Trump.
But we were understandably numb.
The second best time was after the inauguration. The third best time was after the first protest. The fourth best time was after the second protest.
We’re about 8 months before the first primary. We could start a third party after the Labor Day protests.
With me being out of work, I’ve given serious thought about starting one here locally.
Idk how many times the democrats need to prove this, but the DNC exists to protect capital interests against socialist policies and candidates.
This isn’t a problem with FPTP systems, its a problem of class conflict, and our whole fucking system was built with it in mind. Democrats will sooner partner with fascists to arrest progressive opposition than allow them to pull the country to the left of them.
The one that they keep spending billions of dollars every year to influence, including spreading the myth that your vote doesn’t matter, to discourage voter participation.
The one that they keep spending billions of dollars every year to influence
Which is why voting cannot overcome capital. I’m not saying voting is pointless, only that voting has been made to be incapable of undoing the power that has accumulated under capital.
The master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house.
The one that they keep spending billions of dollars every year to influence, including spreading the myth that your vote doesn’t matter, to discourage voter participation.
If billions are being used to influence elections, and that isn’t all grassroots - there isn’t democracy.
The form of capitalism we enjoy currently and democracy are fundamentally opposed.
Exactly, it’s a voter problem. We have a ranked choice voting system in Australia with cumpolsory voting, same as everywhere, we mostly elect fools and asshats.
Juvenal originally used it to decry the “selfishness” of common people and their neglect of wider concerns. The phrase implies a population’s erosion or ignorance of civic duty as a priority.
80% simply don’t really give a shit.
Susan Sontag was asked what she had learned from the Holocaust, and she said that 10% of any population is cruel, no matter what, and that 10% is merciful, no matter what, and that the remaining 80% could be moved in either direction” —Kurt Vonnegut
It’s not a voter problem, it’s a capitalism problem.
In a capitalist democracy, it’s capital that sets the rules for governance, not the other way around. You can have a social democracy, but you can’t undo capital in a capitalist democracy by voting.
I agree that spending boatloads of money on propaganda is an effective way of dictating the terms of an election.
It’s possible that you just don’t agree that capital owners have more money and influence than the rest of the country by orders of magnitude, and that somehow if we just yell really really loudly that we can overcome that immense power differential.
Australia uses IRV, not STV, which is basically just FPTP with a fancier ballot. And nobody else on the planet uses this for multi-seat legislative assemblies. Only Australia.
But if you’re advocating for increased educational funding so that voters aren’t idiots, I’m all for that, too.
The issue is that with ballot access laws, third parties have to have a ton of momentum. And Democrats systematically engage in lawfare to kick third parties and other individuals off the ballot - look it up, they fight anyone to the left of them with more cohesion than they fight Republicans or Trump.
That’s because their donors tell them who to fight, and it’s almost never the people to their right because Republicans don’t threaten the donors’ wealth.
I argue that the rich and powerful want another crash or collapse, otherwise why are the very rich, big corporations, and other institutions not doing anything to fight back against Trump’s policies?
The answer is obvious to me: fascism isn’t a threat to capitalism and there are historical parallels to support my assertion: https://youtu.be/7f_V9zZNzTY
Every single time there are economic problems, the rich get bailed out (or barely feel a hit) and are enabled to take more and more power, wealth, and influence while the 99% toil.
The rich’s game of capitalism only “collapses” if they want it to.
Most Democrats don’t want to fix FPTP because it keeps people voting for them. If a Democrat doesn’t explicitly oppose FPTP, then their actions say they support where we are right now.
We spend so much time yelling at internet people for not understanding the obvious logic of FPTP, yet give legislators the benefit of the doubt election after election. Yes they fucking know, it slapped everyone in the face in 2000.
There have been third parties for decades but they won’t become viable until after they have been not viable. This scale of coordination takes more than 4 years. The first person you know who will vote against FPTP is you.
Seriously, people… throwing out your best option because you want better one down the road…
It’s a strategy… I used it to protest the DNC in 2016… BUT IT REQUIRES YOU STILL HAVE A DEMOCRACY AND NOT A FASCIST DICTATORSHIP RUN BY AN INSURRECTIONIST. YOU FUCKED IT.
There are 2 sides of this. Why is it always “vote for me or else…” and never “propose a good platform for us or else…”?
Dems are actively trying to demolish the leading candidate in NY. They’re about to do the same thing in this case. But “it’s us of fascists”. You think you’ll have a better chance later? You won’t, that’s part of the playbook!
In France, Macron propped the far-right before his second term, so that on 2nd round of presidential elections (direct election in 2 rounds: 1st many candidates, 2nd only the 2 highest scores from the first), he would face the far right candidate, and then “vote for me or else…”.
This has to stop. They’re not naive and stupid, they know very very well what they’re doing: coercing you to vote for them.
I know what they are doing too. I also know what their opponents are doing, and understand that you need a functioning democracy to have any hope of a better candidate down the road. Maybe Hitler’s opposition sucked too but can you imagine they would have made things any worse?
There is no perfect strategy, everything is case by case, everything involves weighing pros and cons, and you are under-estimating the cons of an eternal fascist dictatorship under these pedophile-protecting/genocidal/theocratic/insurrectionist/anti-LGBTQ thugs by a massive degree when you think this will all be worth it at some point. Keep convincing yourself this is all just dem propaganda if it makes you feel better but this is fucking reality and it’s time to wake the fuck up.
Democrats weren’t offering a functioning democracy. They were offering a hostage situation in which they were threatening everyone with fascism if they didn’t vote for the genocidal shit they appointed without a primary.
You’re going straight to that permanent fascism today. Trump won. The Dems are disgusting a growing part of their voters base. If you were redoing elections today, I’m not even sure the outcome would be different. It would come down to who repels their voters the fastest.
How soft the Dems are with Trump is a mirror of what we see in France: the “centrists” are totally compatible with fascism! They can “work with that”. If not the actual politicians, their big donors, who are really setting the direction, will have no issue adapting to a dictatorship. They will play the us vs them game, but you get closer and closer to total fascism.
Re-electing the Dems as they are will not move you away from it. It will just make the journey longer.
We are all responsible, nobody is more responsible than somebody else. Compromising on politicians that don’t even come close to representing the American people is not going to win 2026 or 2028 and get us anything different than MAGA.
Yes, just like me on 2016. Still waiting on my wonderful 3rd party progressive candidate to take back America. Maybe once they start rounding up and deporting non-Republican Party members we’ll finally see someone come along?
Yes, let us take comfort in our delusions of the future while the world crumbles around us.
Your valid criticism is just purity testing to these people. I’m not sure what causes people to blindly worship the party to the degree that they do, but there has to be a way to bridge the gap.
I’m not sure what causes people to blindly worship the party to the degree that they do…
It’s because politics has become the new “religion” for most people. I grew up in a cult, and the amount of crossover in thinking is astonishing: “Our dear leaders couldn’t have done anything wrong, it has to be everyone else that is wrong!”
We are voting blue because the alternative is literal fascism as we’re experiencing here, we don’t have the political system set up for third-party voting, that begins at fucking HOME.
Get involved in your local governments and stop whinging about the federal elections. Your largely-ignored local and state elections are what gave all this mess the power it didn’t deserve.
I mean, there’s still a CHANCE to turn it around and restructure our government and our voting so we have actual choices, but right now, because everyone has been swayed or turned apathetic, we don’t have a viable means for voting for anyone that isn’t picked by the right or the further right.
Instead of shaming people for voting for Harris, we would do a lot better telling people who in their local states and cities need more support.
The left needs to get it’s fart-huffing head out of its collective ass and stop trying to bicker and shame each other performatively. You want real results you get involved from the ground up. Otherwise you’re just displaying how much better you are for internet points.
edit: the fact that this is still getting kids butthurt out there encourages me, I WANT you to be mad. Get fucking MAD you hyper-sensitive dipshits. Then point it where it belongs and go outside and touch grass and get involved in your community, learn to socialize without being self-obsessed, stop feeling entitled to some kind of relief or absolution or validation, you’re exactly the same as MAGA if you’re sitting there mad that someone has criticism of your movement’s tactics or lack thereof. UNIFY.
The left needs to get it’s fart-huffing head out of its collective ass and stop trying to bicker and shame
The left has reached out to the dnc repeatedly and only ever gets its hand slapped and nasty name calling and temper tantrums as a reply-- like you just did. The left doesnt need to do a damned thing-- the centrists do. You know where our votes are. Come get em, or dont. I no longer care what you lot of diet fascist election losers do.
The fact that there are leftists who equate accountability and pointing out problems and criticism against the movement as “centrism” is pretty glaring proof that we have MAGA on both sides of this fetid horseshoe. I hope the next generation of kids growing up reading all this form better ideas. Or just burn the world down faster, our species deserves either.
The left needs to get its fart-huffing head out of its collective ass and stop trying to bicker and shame each other performatively.
So as one of those terminally online, over-educated, ‘dreamer’ leftists, I’m pretty tired of being vote-cucked in cycle after cycle by Democrat faithful and the DNC with “…but have you seen the Republican candidate?” messaging. I’m mad about the policy platform, but recognize the electoral games. You can convince me of the ‘lesser harm’ arguments, but that increasingly does not work with regular voters.
Voting is transactional, not aspirational. Reward voter’s loyalty with policies and governance that actually improves their lives, instead of protecting the Dow and NASDAQ. Someone who is struggling to pay for shelter and healthcare doesn’t give a flying fart about ‘muh institutions’ or ‘procedural issues’ they want results. They’ve been chided and goaded in past elections and didn’t see demonstrable improvements, but instead a widening wealth gap and decreased purchasing power amid windfall corporate profits.
right now, because everyone has been swayed or turned apathetic
Because this what the “vote blue no matter who” modality brings. Cynically wielding the right to ensure electoral compliance doesn’t work. Offering no real concrete policies or cross-party priorities like they used to doesn’t make people want to vote for you.
The party has shown its ass multiple times, and the electorate isn’t as stupid as the beltway folks think they are. Look at the ballot affiliation reports and see how cooked the party is, 4.5 million people said ‘nah they dgaf about me’
He said his worry is that all of these different kinds of voters feel like the Democratic Party left them.
They “all shared the broader fact that they are working class and not feeling like we were talking to them or actually going to help them, so that needs to be fixed,” he said.
we would do a lot better telling people who in their local states and cities need more support.
I stand by this, you can harp and debate and pontificate about what has been done and why and who it effects and how, but at the end of the day if you’re not building your smaller politics, your larger politics will do things you don’t want.
Liberal voters are uninspired and bored and make shitty choices so people who DO care have to get more involved. Give them leadership, give them options, shoot enough talking points at the great propaganda barrier that some get through and strike a few comfortable liberals and median voters who get all their news from AM radio and podcasters.
Take the money out of the hands of the Democrats and this won’t be an issue in the future, this arm-folded harumphing of the Dem party forcing people into choices they don’t like isn’t going to change anything by itself either, this isn’t reaching the median voters or liberals either and can be easily weaponized to make out those dissatisfied as “unamerican” or “radicals.” We have to stop spending money on corporations (saving money, stop spending on frivolous bullshit and entertainment) and start investing actual energy and time into rebuilding communities and socializing. We desperately have to stop doing the same thing expecting different results. There’s a word for that.
I’d argue that organizing a nationwide vote of no confidence for our entire government is imperative instead of playing games with the Democrats who prop up fascism by alienating people who want to achieve progress.
There is no precedent, but being held hostage to a broken system and playing in a rigged game will get us nowhere without extremely radical campaign finance reform and voting/election reform.
You need money to win elections, progressives and leftists or left-leaning individuals can’t compete with big money.
I’ve been at this for decades. Leftists broadly are incapable of organizing on the level that draws in the numbers needed for change, it’s just performative clubhouse demonstrations and performative boycotts, everyone is too lost in their own heads. It’s sad and it sucks but it’s literally the same kind of self-entitlement that the right is suffering from but wrapped in different wallpaper.
The liberal middle-ish class is the blood-bank for the parties to try to continue to extract money from, and as long as this class is moderately comfortable and has food they are going to pour money into whoever catches their eye for a moment on federal electoral stages, largely tune out of local politics, and not have strong principles one way or another. If you can reach these people (without preaching or shaming them for like, enjoying Duck Tales and other bizarre leftist campaigns of shame and finger wagging) then you have a chance of turning the country, but I literally cannot see that happening with the general attitudes that have set in on the left. Nobody is taking any of this seriously. It’s horseshoe theory on despair-inducing display.
That’s the attitude. I think my suggestion has merit.
Let me know how many progressive individuals get elected after a few more decades of capital doing whatever it wants to crush any forward movement of our society (if we even have elections anymore).
The fresh water crisis will get us before anyone can achieve progress on any level if we keep letting the government (or what’s left of it) and elections be bought out by capital.
You know when it comes to mayoral races you don’t have to be subjected to two party rules? That shit is only problem in the big presidential races.
Come on folks do as Sanders said lets build a new party from the ground up. At least what we should have been doing since 2016. Instead they keep thinking we can fix the Democrats. Goddammit no wonder we are lost.
Talks like nazis. Murders encampments full of innocents like nazis. Goes after antifa (anti-fascists) just like nazis. Increasingly makes you “show me your paperz! ze papers are not in order!!” like nazis. Beating citizens (schoolkids) for expressing opinions on politics that they dont like. checkmark, on that one.
If I recall my world history the Japanese said they attacked because the US was pursuing trade boycotts to limit Japans access to raw materials. And the Germans claimed the jewish congress were running a global boycott against german goods right as the depression was hitting, decimating the Weimar republic economy. Similar to tarriffs now. So check, check on those score too.
The nazis dresssed smarter and spoke german. Those are the big differences. So yes, Democrat-republicans are not exactly the same as nazis, but everything else lines up.
Everyone knows the democrats will do this every time. “Vote blue no matter who” is a crock of shit and every single person who gives you shit for not voting for Harris and her shitty campaign that pandered to the right and Israel can be directed to party leadership’s behavior here and in New York
If they can run the risk of handing over mayorships to republicans because the “blue” candidate isn’t correctly blue then logically I can say I’m not going to back any genocide enabling, insider trading, corporate slaves who will sell out any marginalized group to keep their entrenched power (see newsoms pandering anti trans bullshit to charlie kirk).
“Vote blue no matter who” is a direct result of FPTP voting. Until that’s fixed, yeah keep voting blue…if there isn’t a more progressive candidate.
We need a viable third party and the time to start one was November 6, 2024. We’re past the point to make a dent in the midterms (assuming we have elections) but we have time to run progressive candidates.
The time to do something different always seems to be some other time than now.
Yep! Especially if the dogma is “3–4 years ahead of the next election” while having one every 2 years.
Building a party doesn’t mean aiming for victory right next election. It takes time. It will take a lot of time starting from now, or from next year.
The best time to start it was before xxx. The next best time is now.
You can always do something but its efficacy will vary. For example, spinning up a third party candidate a week before the election would be pointless.
If you look at my post history on Nov 5 has several posts on starting a third party. Right after the election would have been perfect. A lot of runway to find candidates, push them into the spotlight, have them lead the protests against Trump.
But we were understandably numb.
The second best time was after the inauguration. The third best time was after the first protest. The fourth best time was after the second protest.
We’re about 8 months before the first primary. We could start a third party after the Labor Day protests.
With me being out of work, I’ve given serious thought about starting one here locally.
We cannot vote our way out of this
Idk how many times the democrats need to prove this, but the DNC exists to protect capital interests against socialist policies and candidates.
This isn’t a problem with FPTP systems, its a problem of class conflict, and our whole fucking system was built with it in mind. Democrats will sooner partner with fascists to arrest progressive opposition than allow them to pull the country to the left of them.
It’s much less of a problem in PR systems.
There is no electoral system that can overcome a sufficiently organized and motivated capital class.
Are you suggesting we abolish democracy?
What democracy is there to abolish?
The one that they keep spending billions of dollars every year to influence, including spreading the myth that your vote doesn’t matter, to discourage voter participation.
Which is why voting cannot overcome capital. I’m not saying voting is pointless, only that voting has been made to be incapable of undoing the power that has accumulated under capital.
The master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house.
If billions are being used to influence elections, and that isn’t all grassroots - there isn’t democracy.
The form of capitalism we enjoy currently and democracy are fundamentally opposed.
I’m suggesting we abolish the capital class.
Alright that sounds awesome but is also super vague and leaves out all the important steps like the how and the when.
Step 1: Engender class consciousness in the american working class <— You are here
Step 2: Organize
Step 3: Demonstrate
Step 4: Continue escalating until the capital class is forced to negotiate
Notice that ‘vote’ does not appear on this list.
Exactly, it’s a voter problem. We have a ranked choice voting system in Australia with cumpolsory voting, same as everywhere, we mostly elect fools and asshats.
But then some some 2000 years ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses
80% simply don’t really give a shit.
It’s not a voter problem, it’s a capitalism problem.
In a capitalist democracy, it’s capital that sets the rules for governance, not the other way around. You can have a social democracy, but you can’t undo capital in a capitalist democracy by voting.
You’re incredibly defeatist. You absolutely can, that’s why they keep spending so much money trying to influence our vote.
I agree that spending boatloads of money on propaganda is an effective way of dictating the terms of an election.
It’s possible that you just don’t agree that capital owners have more money and influence than the rest of the country by orders of magnitude, and that somehow if we just yell really really loudly that we can overcome that immense power differential.
Australia uses IRV, not STV, which is basically just FPTP with a fancier ballot. And nobody else on the planet uses this for multi-seat legislative assemblies. Only Australia.
But if you’re advocating for increased educational funding so that voters aren’t idiots, I’m all for that, too.
The issue is that with ballot access laws, third parties have to have a ton of momentum. And Democrats systematically engage in lawfare to kick third parties and other individuals off the ballot - look it up, they fight anyone to the left of them with more cohesion than they fight Republicans or Trump.
Yup. I wanted to vote for the socialist candidate last election, and democrats sued her off the ballot.
That did not result in me voting for Harris, but it did convince me to refuse to vote for any down ballot democrats.
My party also had no candidate on the ballot because they were sued by the Dems. Not sure who they think they’re winning over with that.
Their rich donors
That’s because their donors tell them who to fight, and it’s almost never the people to their right because Republicans don’t threaten the donors’ wealth.
They do now. Attempting to influence the federal reserve board isn’t good for the rich (or anyone else).
He’s trying to overheat the economy to get a gold star before it collapses.
I argue that the rich and powerful want another crash or collapse, otherwise why are the very rich, big corporations, and other institutions not doing anything to fight back against Trump’s policies?
The answer is obvious to me: fascism isn’t a threat to capitalism and there are historical parallels to support my assertion: https://youtu.be/7f_V9zZNzTY
Every single time there are economic problems, the rich get bailed out (or barely feel a hit) and are enabled to take more and more power, wealth, and influence while the 99% toil.
The rich’s game of capitalism only “collapses” if they want it to.
Most Democrats don’t want to fix FPTP because it keeps people voting for them. If a Democrat doesn’t explicitly oppose FPTP, then their actions say they support where we are right now.
We spend so much time yelling at internet people for not understanding the obvious logic of FPTP, yet give legislators the benefit of the doubt election after election. Yes they fucking know, it slapped everyone in the face in 2000.
There have been third parties for decades but they won’t become viable until after they have been not viable. This scale of coordination takes more than 4 years. The first person you know who will vote against FPTP is you.
Except it goes out the window when the party isn’t able to keep progressives off the ballot.
Seriously, people… throwing out your best option because you want better one down the road…
It’s a strategy… I used it to protest the DNC in 2016… BUT IT REQUIRES YOU STILL HAVE A DEMOCRACY AND NOT A FASCIST DICTATORSHIP RUN BY AN INSURRECTIONIST. YOU FUCKED IT.
Who fucked it?
There are 2 sides of this. Why is it always “vote for me or else…” and never “propose a good platform for us or else…”?
Dems are actively trying to demolish the leading candidate in NY. They’re about to do the same thing in this case. But “it’s us of fascists”. You think you’ll have a better chance later? You won’t, that’s part of the playbook!
In France, Macron propped the far-right before his second term, so that on 2nd round of presidential elections (direct election in 2 rounds: 1st many candidates, 2nd only the 2 highest scores from the first), he would face the far right candidate, and then “vote for me or else…”.
This has to stop. They’re not naive and stupid, they know very very well what they’re doing: coercing you to vote for them.
I know what they are doing too. I also know what their opponents are doing, and understand that you need a functioning democracy to have any hope of a better candidate down the road. Maybe Hitler’s opposition sucked too but can you imagine they would have made things any worse?
There is no perfect strategy, everything is case by case, everything involves weighing pros and cons, and you are under-estimating the cons of an eternal fascist dictatorship under these pedophile-protecting/genocidal/theocratic/insurrectionist/anti-LGBTQ thugs by a massive degree when you think this will all be worth it at some point. Keep convincing yourself this is all just dem propaganda if it makes you feel better but this is fucking reality and it’s time to wake the fuck up.
Democrats weren’t offering a functioning democracy. They were offering a hostage situation in which they were threatening everyone with fascism if they didn’t vote for the genocidal shit they appointed without a primary.
You’re going straight to that permanent fascism today. Trump won. The Dems are disgusting a growing part of their voters base. If you were redoing elections today, I’m not even sure the outcome would be different. It would come down to who repels their voters the fastest.
How soft the Dems are with Trump is a mirror of what we see in France: the “centrists” are totally compatible with fascism! They can “work with that”. If not the actual politicians, their big donors, who are really setting the direction, will have no issue adapting to a dictatorship. They will play the us vs them game, but you get closer and closer to total fascism.
Re-electing the Dems as they are will not move you away from it. It will just make the journey longer.
They literally appointed Hitler
We are all responsible, nobody is more responsible than somebody else. Compromising on politicians that don’t even come close to representing the American people is not going to win 2026 or 2028 and get us anything different than MAGA.
Yes, just like me on 2016. Still waiting on my wonderful 3rd party progressive candidate to take back America. Maybe once they start rounding up and deporting non-Republican Party members we’ll finally see someone come along?
Yes, let us take comfort in our delusions of the future while the world crumbles around us.
It’ll get me a world where I’m not actively hunted down for my sexuality or skin color, so that would be nice.
Yeah, so long as you win every election forever, while running increasingly unappealing candidates. Which is the strategy you tried, and it failed.
That’s not the strategy I tried.
Then what is?
The right strategy is fighting fire with fire - bombarding the internet with propaganda. It doesn’t take billions of dollars to do it.
Will they win though? Kamala cemented it in my head that Democrats appealing to centrists and old-school Republicans isn’t effective strategy.
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Your valid criticism is just purity testing to these people. I’m not sure what causes people to blindly worship the party to the degree that they do, but there has to be a way to bridge the gap.
The system isn’t working at all here in America.
It’s because politics has become the new “religion” for most people. I grew up in a cult, and the amount of crossover in thinking is astonishing: “Our dear leaders couldn’t have done anything wrong, it has to be everyone else that is wrong!”
We are voting blue because the alternative is literal fascism as we’re experiencing here, we don’t have the political system set up for third-party voting, that begins at fucking HOME.
Get involved in your local governments and stop whinging about the federal elections. Your largely-ignored local and state elections are what gave all this mess the power it didn’t deserve.
I mean, there’s still a CHANCE to turn it around and restructure our government and our voting so we have actual choices, but right now, because everyone has been swayed or turned apathetic, we don’t have a viable means for voting for anyone that isn’t picked by the right or the further right.
Instead of shaming people for voting for Harris, we would do a lot better telling people who in their local states and cities need more support.
The left needs to get it’s fart-huffing head out of its collective ass and stop trying to bicker and shame each other performatively. You want real results you get involved from the ground up. Otherwise you’re just displaying how much better you are for internet points.
edit: the fact that this is still getting kids butthurt out there encourages me, I WANT you to be mad. Get fucking MAD you hyper-sensitive dipshits. Then point it where it belongs and go outside and touch grass and get involved in your community, learn to socialize without being self-obsessed, stop feeling entitled to some kind of relief or absolution or validation, you’re exactly the same as MAGA if you’re sitting there mad that someone has criticism of your movement’s tactics or lack thereof. UNIFY.
The left has reached out to the dnc repeatedly and only ever gets its hand slapped and nasty name calling and temper tantrums as a reply-- like you just did. The left doesnt need to do a damned thing-- the centrists do. You know where our votes are. Come get em, or dont. I no longer care what you lot of diet fascist election losers do.
The fact that there are leftists who equate accountability and pointing out problems and criticism against the movement as “centrism” is pretty glaring proof that we have MAGA on both sides of this fetid horseshoe. I hope the next generation of kids growing up reading all this form better ideas. Or just burn the world down faster, our species deserves either.
So as one of those terminally online, over-educated, ‘dreamer’ leftists, I’m pretty tired of being vote-cucked in cycle after cycle by Democrat faithful and the DNC with “…but have you seen the Republican candidate?” messaging. I’m mad about the policy platform, but recognize the electoral games. You can convince me of the ‘lesser harm’ arguments, but that increasingly does not work with regular voters.
Voting is transactional, not aspirational. Reward voter’s loyalty with policies and governance that actually improves their lives, instead of protecting the Dow and NASDAQ. Someone who is struggling to pay for shelter and healthcare doesn’t give a flying fart about ‘muh institutions’ or ‘procedural issues’ they want results. They’ve been chided and goaded in past elections and didn’t see demonstrable improvements, but instead a widening wealth gap and decreased purchasing power amid windfall corporate profits.
Because this what the “vote blue no matter who” modality brings. Cynically wielding the right to ensure electoral compliance doesn’t work. Offering no real concrete policies or cross-party priorities like they used to doesn’t make people want to vote for you.
The party has shown its ass multiple times, and the electorate isn’t as stupid as the beltway folks think they are. Look at the ballot affiliation reports and see how cooked the party is, 4.5 million people said ‘nah they dgaf about me’
I stand by this, you can harp and debate and pontificate about what has been done and why and who it effects and how, but at the end of the day if you’re not building your smaller politics, your larger politics will do things you don’t want.
Liberal voters are uninspired and bored and make shitty choices so people who DO care have to get more involved. Give them leadership, give them options, shoot enough talking points at the great propaganda barrier that some get through and strike a few comfortable liberals and median voters who get all their news from AM radio and podcasters.
Take the money out of the hands of the Democrats and this won’t be an issue in the future, this arm-folded harumphing of the Dem party forcing people into choices they don’t like isn’t going to change anything by itself either, this isn’t reaching the median voters or liberals either and can be easily weaponized to make out those dissatisfied as “unamerican” or “radicals.” We have to stop spending money on corporations (saving money, stop spending on frivolous bullshit and entertainment) and start investing actual energy and time into rebuilding communities and socializing. We desperately have to stop doing the same thing expecting different results. There’s a word for that.
edit: your weird pushback on these ideas tells me I need to antagonize you fucks even harder into getting mobilized.
I’d argue that organizing a nationwide vote of no confidence for our entire government is imperative instead of playing games with the Democrats who prop up fascism by alienating people who want to achieve progress.
There is no precedent, but being held hostage to a broken system and playing in a rigged game will get us nowhere without extremely radical campaign finance reform and voting/election reform.
You need money to win elections, progressives and leftists or left-leaning individuals can’t compete with big money.
Let me know how that goes.
I’ve been at this for decades. Leftists broadly are incapable of organizing on the level that draws in the numbers needed for change, it’s just performative clubhouse demonstrations and performative boycotts, everyone is too lost in their own heads. It’s sad and it sucks but it’s literally the same kind of self-entitlement that the right is suffering from but wrapped in different wallpaper.
The liberal middle-ish class is the blood-bank for the parties to try to continue to extract money from, and as long as this class is moderately comfortable and has food they are going to pour money into whoever catches their eye for a moment on federal electoral stages, largely tune out of local politics, and not have strong principles one way or another. If you can reach these people (without preaching or shaming them for like, enjoying Duck Tales and other bizarre leftist campaigns of shame and finger wagging) then you have a chance of turning the country, but I literally cannot see that happening with the general attitudes that have set in on the left. Nobody is taking any of this seriously. It’s horseshoe theory on despair-inducing display.
That’s the attitude. I think my suggestion has merit.
Let me know how many progressive individuals get elected after a few more decades of capital doing whatever it wants to crush any forward movement of our society (if we even have elections anymore).
The fresh water crisis will get us before anyone can achieve progress on any level if we keep letting the government (or what’s left of it) and elections be bought out by capital.
What the Democrats were doing in Gaza was literal fascism.
Lol, hypocrite.
You know when it comes to mayoral races you don’t have to be subjected to two party rules? That shit is only problem in the big presidential races.
Come on folks do as Sanders said lets build a new party from the ground up. At least what we should have been doing since 2016. Instead they keep thinking we can fix the Democrats. Goddammit no wonder we are lost.
Isn’t it cool how the Dems and the Nazis get equal criticism on Lemmy?
I mean, it’s mostly valid, and yet…
Talks like nazis. Murders encampments full of innocents like nazis. Goes after antifa (anti-fascists) just like nazis. Increasingly makes you “show me your paperz! ze papers are not in order!!” like nazis. Beating citizens (schoolkids) for expressing opinions on politics that they dont like. checkmark, on that one.
If I recall my world history the Japanese said they attacked because the US was pursuing trade boycotts to limit Japans access to raw materials. And the Germans claimed the jewish congress were running a global boycott against german goods right as the depression was hitting, decimating the Weimar republic economy. Similar to tarriffs now. So check, check on those score too.
The nazis dresssed smarter and spoke german. Those are the big differences. So yes, Democrat-republicans are not exactly the same as nazis, but everything else lines up.
Not true! I attack actual fart-huffing leftists as well as democrats and nazis tyvm.
You attack anyone to your left, yes.
This is why Americans are my literal enemy for life. Worst fucking neighbours. Nothing you guys do is for the betterment of all.
So who did you vote for then?