Genocide is bad. If your ideology prevents you from agreeing with that statement, you are a monster.
Nobody here is denying that genocide is bad, what’s in question is what the US Empire says is happening vs what is actually happening. The US Empire has lied before, such as the babies taken from incubators story or Iraq’s WMD, but it was only long after the dust had begun to settle in Iraq that the liberals started to agree with the leftists that the evidence was actually insufficient after all.
Translation, we are very concerned because someone else is doing the killing, they took ur, joooobsss
The people that try to equate fake genocide with real genocide are like the school staff punishing bully and victim alike. They are enabling the abuses. Also it must be deeply insulting to the real victims in gaza.
And you’re insanely insulting the the real victims in Xinjiang
https://hrf.org/latest/whats-happening-in-chinas-concentration-camps-qa-with-uyghur-camp-survivors/
Where is the evidence? This article is an interview showing two people telling stories, one of which is selling a book, just like Yeonmi Park.
I can too volunteer for an interview as I tell how Greenland is genociding left handed people. But nobody will ever want to pay me for that.Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: Chinese genocide denialistYes, reporter, that is precisely what we’re doing. We’re denying that there was or is a genocide in Xinjiang.
We also deny the white genocide in South Africa, among other bogus accusations.Genocides are real things, so it’s important we reliably identify them with factual evidence, not falling for atrocity propaganda. Incorrectly identifying something as genocide is irresponsible much like denying a case of genocide that is actually taking place.
It’s supposedly been a decade long genocide and yet still nobody has been able to present any evidence beyond uncorroborated and inconsistent testimonials from a single digit number of sources, filtered exclusively through right wing American NGOs.
Meanwhile two years of genocide in Gaza produced an endless stream of audio-visual and forensic evidence so overwhelmingly undeniable that even governments participateing in the genocide have started to admit it.
Both things can be true, China has very tight control of media and they’re officially doing only stuff to terrorists. It’s literally impossible to hide carpet bombing apartment blocks anywhere in the world. Disappearing people into reeducation camps inside isn’t.
“During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn’t go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.”
-Michael Parenti
With the numbers that Adrian Zenz claims it’s impossible to hide for that long.
Both things can be true
Anything can be true if you retreat into your mind palace of pure logic and reasoning
Then you can literally just say whatever the fuck you want
Seriously.
The time jordanlund came here to make an ass of himself about the “Uyghur genocide”: https://lemmy.ml/post/25050001/16268910
A snippet from my response:
(a) Show me the Uyghur bodies
(b) Show me the serious bodily or mental harm
(c) Show me the conditions calculated to bring about physical destruction in whole or in part
(d) Show me the measures intended to prevent births within the group
In accordance with China’s affirmative action policies towards ethnic minorities, all non-Han ethnic groups were subject to different laws and were usually allowed to have two children in urban areas, and three or four in rural areas.
(e) Show me the forcible transfer of children from one group to another group
All you have are a couple of photos of prisons, which proves nothing, and some garbage testimonies that we’ve debunked a thousand fucking times already.
The real victims in Xinjiang were the people who got stabbed & bombed & run over by CIA-funded Salafi jihad terrorists, which fortunately is no longer a thing, much to the CIA’s chagrin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China#Chronology_of_major_events
CIA is not mentioned a single time in the linked wiki article
It will 200% be declassified as a CIA operation in 40 years, but by then new accusations on new enemies of he US will be the new topic no one is able to question. If the US still exists by then lol
No shit the CIA isn’t mentioned. Do you think CIA agents would have been there at the scenes of these terrorist attacks? That’s not how any of this works.
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(Mass dislikes time!)
Yes, the US does evil shit in the Middle East. Killing brown-skinned practitioners of the other Abrahamic religion overseas is an American tradition.
That still doesn’t change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.
You can’t shit-talk one authoritarian state and cheer on another.
Yeah
That still doesn’t change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.
But it’s not a fact though? You can’t imagine up some fictional scenario and then just claim it’s a fact; words have meanings
Not only is China indisputably persecuting Uyghurs, but we have far more proof for the genocide in the Xinjiang province than we do for the one in Gaza. Millions of scholars who are not at all associated with either Adrian Zenz or Uyghur separatists agree that the Uyghur genocide is the deadliest, most important, and best documented atrocity of all time. If you need links to the evidence, I can give you as many links as you want.
But first, I need you to solve a CAPTCHA to make sure that you are not a robot.To prove that you are not a robot, enter the number of trees visible in the image below:
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3·2 hours agoThe image isn’t loading for me.
So here it is uploaded:
If not reeducation, which method would you prefer China use to combat the foreign radical Wahhabism and terrorism spread by the CIA in Xinjiang for the purpose of regional destabilization and regime change?
We all know how the US chose to implement its own war on terror. Muslim majority countries in the Middle East support China’s method.
Vocational training and extraordinary rendition & torture at a black site are exactly the same. You fool. You absolute baffoon.
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Bro you haven’t engaged with any of the material we’ve presented in this conversation.
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You forgot the /s
That still doesn’t change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.
The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing Salafi terrorist into Xinjiang, and once its efforts failed, it made lemonade out of its lemon by concocting and promoting a genocide narrative.
The only countries pushing this narrative are the “always the same map” imperial core countries, which just so happen to be largely the same ones supporting Israel’s genocide.
Almost no predominantly-Muslim country buys the Uyghur genocide narrative, because they know it’s bullshit, because they talked to the Uyghurs themselves.
https://twitter.com/un_hrc/status/1578003299827171330 #HRC51 | Draft resolution A/HRC/51/L.6 on holding a debate on the situation of human rights in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of #China, was REJECTED.
- The Uyghur Human Rights Project is a product of the National Endowment for Democracy, which is the American government’s main regime change NGO.
- A Reddit AMA Claiming To Be A Uyghur Quickly Exposes A CIA Asset Slandering China
- The Xinjiang Genocide Allegations Are Unjustified
- Uyghur genocide allegations
- American Debunks All Major Western Propaganda on Uyghurs and Xinjiang
- US-Funded Uyghur Activists Train as Soldiers of Empire
- The blueprint of regime change operations How regime change happens in the 21st century with your consent
The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing Salafi terrorist into Xinjiang, and once its efforts failed, it made lemonade out of its lemon by concocting and promoting a genocide narrative.
Much like how after China foiled their color revolution attempt in 1989, the CIA had to pivot to the “Tinyman Square Massacre” narrative.
Very much like that, and they’re still getting mileage out of it with no effort, because Lemmitors get an endorphin rush every time they do the CIA’s work for free, the brave defenders of freedom & democracy that they are 🤦♂️
Sources:
- china news propaganda site
- medium article from rando
- project syndicate link which is an op-ed site (not news)
- a wiki page from an incredibly biased group
- a youtube link…
- a site calling itself a news site, yet no actual credentials, but seems to be associated with China (Ajit Singh has written Chinese propaganda books)
- a substack link
This has to be the least compelling list of evidence one could provide, and yet you get upvotes because it looks like you’ve provided proof of something. All you’ve done is provide a lot of incredibly, seriously biased opinions with no actual facts at all.
As opposed to all those unbiased sources you’ve provided, lol.
I’m absolutely not going to provide sources or even argue with anyone from .ml on an .ml community because it’s pointless. You all do not care about proper sourcing and think it’s even a detractor because it’s “western”. I’m pointing out the problems with the sources for all the other people that are observing that comment and being swayed, because it’s a bunch of baloney.
You’re conflating “proper sourcing” with being western, that’s already an error, and second of all it’s the west that has been most prominently pushing the genocide theory. Of course it’s going to be contested by China. The validity of sources used by posts on YouTube and Medium aren’t in question because of where they are hosted, they are often hosted on these kinds of platforms because opposing western narratives gets you blacklisted.
Wow, I wonder why there aren’t any Western corporate media sources with a Media Bias/Fact Check seal of approval…
The first step is to understand the media, which Media Bias/Fact Check and the Ad Fontes Media* are never going to teach you. The only people who are taught it are those who get degrees in marketing, public relations, political science, history, and journalism; and even then only some of them.
The new post-Trump/“post-truth” media literacy curricula won’t teach it to you either, because it was paid for and crafted by the US military-industrial complex: New Media Literacy Standards Aim to Combat ‘Truth Decay’.
This week, the RAND Corporation released a new set of media literacy standards designed to support schools in this task.
The standards are part of RAND’s ongoing project on “truth decay”: a phenomenon that RAND researchers describe as “the diminishing role that facts, data, and analysis play in our political and civic discourse.”
None of it is a secret, though, and it can be learned.
- Noam Chomsky - The 5 Filters of the Mass Media Machine
- Propaganda model
- Edward Bernays
- Walter Lippmann
- Council on Foreign Relations
- Powell Memorandum
- The Trilateral Commission’s report, The Crisis of Democracy
* I’ve criticized MBFC & Ad Fontes before:
Nobody said anything about MBFC. Good luck, like I said in another comment I’m not going to argue with anyone from .ml. I was pointing out the faults in your sources because they’re not proper sources no matter what region of the world you’re from.
It’s OK to distrust more than one Government, but how anyone can believe the Chineses Government in this matter is beyond me.
Did you not see the insanely violent crack down on Hong Kong Democracy Movement with you own eyes? Do you not remember Tianamen Square? Great Fire-Wall?
Theres liyteraly over 10GB or evidence of the persecution of Uyghurs by the Chinese Government:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_Police_Files
I can understand not wanting to believe/trust the US and EU Govs, but trusting the Chinese Government is (IMO) insane.
The Xinjiang Police Files are said to be leaked documents from the Xinjiang internment camps, forwarded to anthropologist Adrian Zenz from an anonymous source.
Adrian Nikolaus Zenz (born 1974) is a German anthropologist known for his studies of the Xinjiang internment camps and persecution of Uyghurs in China. He is a director and senior fellow in China studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, an anti-communist think tank established by the US government and based in Washington, DC.
Yeah… not suspicious at all.
“How anyone can believe the foreigners is beyond me” Let me guess you don’t consider foreigners human
“All foreigners are ‘insane’ btw” calm down hitler
It’s OK to distrust more than one Government
Then you should try it, you hypocritical dipshit. You believe everything that comes out of the western propaganda machine without question, and then assume anyone who doesn’t believe them are “believing the Chinese government”
If it were 2002 you would be accusing anyone who didn’t believe Iraq of having WMDs of “believing Saddam!”
Do you not remember Tianamen Square
So do you do this in the opposite direction? When people doubt a claim made by China, do you start randomly bringing up unrelated events from forty years ago. What exactly was the chain of reasoning that made you thought this was relevant? Oh right, there wasn’t one: you’ve just been trained like a literal dog to compulsively blurt out “Tinyman Square!” every time you hear the word “China”.
Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: Cursing
That’s the reddit mindset: being as rude, condescending, and smug as humanly possible is fine, but a naughty word is just uncivil.
Did you not see the insanely violent crack down on Hong Kong Democracy Movement with you own eyes?
The UK’s 99 year lease to subjugate the people of Hong Kong ended, a lease which had been forced upon Imperial China at gunpoint during the century of humiliation. Hong Kong reintegration after the lease expired was a foregone conclusion. The last minute, US-backed attempt at color revolution failed. It was the so-called “revolutionaries” who brought the brutality, by the way.
Do you not remember Tianamen Square?
I’ve already asked another commenter this but it’s valid here too: Would you class the western oppression of dissent to be on the same level as that famous student protest in China?
Only someone misinformed about the 1989 protest and US/CIA/NED-orchestrated, murderously violent riot would ask this, which to be fair is 99% of Westerners.
- 📺 The Tiananmen Square “Massacre” Never Happened: part 1, part 2, part 3 — [Sources]
- Edit to add: YouTube took the original video down for “violating YouTube’s terms of service,” but I found a reploaded a copy, splitting it up into three pieces. This is why you don’t know what really happened, because Western corporate media don’t want you to know. They were reuploaded just today; who knows how long they’ll stay up.
- The Tian’anmen Square ‘Massacre’: The West’s Most Persuasive, Most Pervasive Lie.
- CBS, 1989: There Was No “Tiananmen Square Massacre”
- Images from Tiananmen 1989 the West never shows (NSFW / CW: violence and death)
- Tank Man video footage. Tiananmen Square, Beijing, 1989
- How psy-ops warriors fooled me about Tiananmen Square: a warning
- 1989 Tian’anmen Square riots
- A Note on the Tiananmen Protests
- Washington Post, 1989: Rebel Without a Magazine
[Chinese Intellectual’s founder] Liang [Heng] had come from his New York office, where he serves as the magazine’s foreign editor, to Washington Thursday and Friday to address the board of directors at the National Endowment for Democracy – a substantial financial backer of the magazine – to tell it what he knows, what he thinks and what will possibly happen. After his arrival in the United States, he earned his master’s degree in literature from Columbia University and secured an initial $200,000 grant from the NED, a private corporation created in 1983 to “strengthen democratic efforts worldwide,” to start his magazine.
- The Seattle Times, 2011: Quiet scholar who inspired uprisings
That is not to say [Gene] Sharp has not seen any action. In 1989, he jetted off to China to witness the uprising in Tiananmen Square. In the early 1990s, he sneaked into a Myanmar rebel camp at the invitation of Robert Helvey, a retired Army colonel who advised the opposition there. They met when Helvey was on a fellowship at Harvard; the military man thought the professor had ideas that could avoid war.
- The blueprint of regime change operations - How regime change happens in the 21st century with your consent
Great Fire-Wall?
The firewall isn’t there to keep Chinese people from The Truth. It’s there to keep imperial core meddling out, and to help China develop its own domestic internet services. In contrast, the rest of the world is dependent on / addicted to US internet services from Google/Alphabet, Amazon, Facebook/Meta, Microsoft, etc., which many countries are beginning to regret.
I already covered Xinjang elsewhere in this post, and if you had read it you would know that Adrian Zenz is a crackpot.
- 📺 The Tiananmen Square “Massacre” Never Happened: part 1, part 2, part 3 — [Sources]
You’re arguing with a guy that doesn’t want to change their mind. He literally sent me a video whose sources contradicted him and guess what happened when I pointed that to him? Never bothered to reply and he still uses that video as proof that he’s right.
As opposed to you people, who are totally open and eager to change your minds
Seeing as how I actually watched his video and looked at their sources and other sources and only after that did I reply? Yes. And even to this day I still leave room for doubt. I still think the truth is actually somewhere in the middle. Not you, tho. You’re convinced that what you believe is correct.
Not you, tho. You’re convinced that what you believe is correct.
Yeah, as opposed to believing what I believe is incorrect…
Do you even understand the concept of other minds?
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this post isn’t cheering on china, it’s shitting on the west’s hypocrisy.
also you might want to look up who funded the wahabis who groomed the terrorists that the crackdown is a response to.
You can’t shit-talk one authoritarian state and cheer on another.
I thought I’d blocked ml already. Guess I need to do that again.
How self absorbed do you have to be to announce that?
“Authoritarian state” is a bullshit category. Authoritarian states are just states insufficiently subservient to Washington. It’s no more or less coherent than “terrorist state,” which the US uses in the same way.
“Authoritarianism” is the contemporary word for “totalitarianism,” which is just an erudite-seming term for horseshoe theory, which is horseshit. Previously:
- ‘Horseshoe theory’ is nonsense – the far right and far left have little in common
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory#Academic_studies_and_criticism
- Funny thing about Hannah Arendt’s construction of “totalitarianism”: She came from a bourgeois family and so was unsurprisingly anti-communist, and she was funded & promoted by the CIA.
Imperialist Propaganda and the Ideology of the Western Left Intelligentsia: From Anticommunism and Identity Politics to Democratic Illusions and Fascism
One of the centerpieces of the cultural cold war was the Congress for Cultural Freedom (CCF), which was revealed in 1966 to be a CIA front. Hugh Wilford, who has researched the topic extensively, described the CCF as nothing short of one of the largest patrons of art and culture in the history of the world. Established in 1950, it promoted on the international scene the work of collaborationist academics such as Raymond Aron and Hannah Arendt over and against their Marxian rivals, including the likes of Jean-Paul Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir.
.ml simps so fucking hard for authoritarians in Russia and China?
To liberals, “simping so fucking hard” literally just means, "not believing literally every piece of propaganda that right wing western propaganda outlets pump out about them.
If they were old enough to be paying attention in 2002, they would be accusing anyone who didn’t believe Iraq had WMDs of “simping so fucking hard” for Saddam.
You don’t believe there are WMD? What are you some authoritarian simping tankie?
🤣 Their jabs are so far off the mark, but every time they think they’ve hit the bullseye. If they could see our fremdschämen faces…
"Yes, the US does evil shit in the Middle East. Killing brown-skinned practitioners of the other Abrahamic religion overseas is an American tradition.
That still doesn’t change the fact that Iraq is building weapons of mass destruction to attack the USA.
You can’t shit-talk one authoritarian state and cheer on another."
Seriously, how many times do you need to hear it before you western chauvanists realise it’s not about “good or bad”, it’s about trustworthy or untrustworthy.
Ironically Abrahamic religion’s influence feeds into liberalism’s good vs. evil worldview.
Philosophy professor Hans-Georg Moeller: If Morality Exists Everything Is Permitted
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Valid meme but hopefully it doesn’t minimize the plight of Uyghurs in peoples minds.
Maybe next time read the comments first.
lol seriously. Most obvious propaganda scam of all time. Libs fell hook line and sinker though.
When lemmy.lib sends its people, they’re not sending their best.
Unfortunately, they are.
Its only legal if you just want to steal their natural resources
Listen, I’m sure there’s a very good reason why we have radically different policies towards Afghani Muslims and Uyghur Muslims, despite the fact they share a border and a litany of cultural practices.
We’re very butthurt about our failed color revolution, and we’re very concerned that we can’t even manage to make lemonade out of our lemon.
Westerners, every time:
So concerned that we bribed foreign terrorists to blow shit up in Xinjiang, forcing China to spend on education and job programs there.
These people, who don’t know shit about fuck, are absolutely sure that they already know everything that needs to be known, and that we don’t know shit about fuck.
And in twenty years they’ll say they knew it all along.
This is some next level racism.
Please elaborate: where’s the racism?
This has been the US playbook since before we were born, and funding, arming, and influencing Salafi jihadists in particular has been going on since at least the 1980s. Previously:
6 December 1993: Anti-Soviet warrior puts his army on the road to peace
FAIR: Forgotten Coverage of Afghan ‘Freedom Fighters’ But the U.S. government and the American press have not always opposed Afghan extremists. During the 1980s, the Mujahiddin guerrilla groups battling Soviet occupation had key features in common with the Taliban. In many ways, the Mujahiddin groups acted as an incubator for the later rise of the Taliban in the 1990s.
Despite CIA denials of any direct Agency support for Bin Laden’s activities, a considerable body of circumstantial evidence suggests the contrary. During the 1980s, Bin Laden’s activities in Afghanistan closely paralleled those of the CIA. Bin Laden held accounts in the Bank for Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), the bank the CIA used to finance its own covert actions. Bin Laden worked especially closely with Hekmatyar—the CIA’s favored Mujahiddin commander. In 1989, the U.S. shipped high-powered sniper rifles to a Mujahiddin faction that included bin Laden, according to a former bin Laden aide.
“Our genocides are the good genocides” thinking persisting this long is baffling. Even more disturbing is these people are in power.
Is it though? People hear what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe. No one wants to believe that their privileges are predicated on suffering elsewhere.
Westerners in particularly have always been very “heads in the sand” when it comes to modern history but it’s not surprising. Every nation struggles with the darker aspects of their history.
Correct: https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/
Meanwhile I get nothing out of it but insults and the hope that a (very) few will begin their deprogramming journey, as I did soon after 9/11.
As long as you critically stan a state, it’s okay to support genocide. /s
That does appear to be the western liberal belief
Yeah like frig China. Why aren’t you killing them? Whats wrong with you? Clearly the most morally correct thing to do is exterminate them, what are you trying to hide?
Whataboutism, and possibly propaganda. They are both horrible and should not exist. Moral superiority doesn’t matter if people are being systematically murdered.
When dealing with hypocrites, whataboutism is the correct and logically consistent response.
People who complain about whataboutism are 99% hypocrites whose hypocrisy has been pointed out. And they have no rational arguments to defend their view other than deflecting the topic.
Citations Needed podcast:
Whataboutism - The Media’s Favorite Rhetorical Shield Against Criticism of US PolicySince the beginning of what’s generally called ‘RussiaGate’ three years ago, pundits, media outlets, even comedians have all become insta-experts on supposed Russian propaganda techniques. The most cunning of these tricks, we are told, is that of “whataboutism” – a devious Soviet tactic of deflecting criticism by pointing out the accusers’ hypocrisy and inconsistencies. The tu quoque - or, “you, also” - fallacy, but with a unique Slavic flavor of nihilism, used by Trump and leftists alike in an effort to change the subject and focus on the faults of the United States rather than the crimes of Official State Enemies.
But what if “whataboutism” isn’t describing a propaganda technique, but in fact is one itself: a zombie phrase that’s seeped into everyday liberal discourse that – while perhaps useful in the abstract - has manifestly turned any appeal to moral consistency into a cunning Russian psyop. From its origins in the Cold War as a means of deflecting and apologizing for Jim Crow to its braindead contemporary usage as a way of not engaging any criticism of the United States as the supposed arbiter of human rights, the term “whataboutism” has become a term that - 100 percent of the time - is simply used to defend and legitimizing American empire’s moral narratives.
Jesus Christ, “Whataboutism” really does just mean anything other than complete blind belief in the American Nat-sec blob now. “Oh, you don’t believe that people who activity cheer on the genocide of Palestinians are being sincere in their claimed concern for Chinese Muslims? WHATABOUTISM!”
people are being systematically murdered.
I assume you’re referring to Gaza? Because not even the most frothing sinophobes have tried to claim a “systematic murder” of Muslims in China, so if you’re not referring to Gaza, you are literally making up lies whole cloth.
Are we to ignore the obvious evils of US Imperialism?
Thanks for the vaguepost 👍
This meme doesn’t need the word “Muslims”
More likely the meme went over your head.
Substitute “people” for “Muslim”. The point is still valid.
Well, they can’t let another country move into their game.
No need to censor, you can say A on lemmy.
