Howard Zinn’s A People’s History of the United States said it all in 1980. The current events are only new chapters to the book.
The Nazis were inspired by what went on in America. Genocide, concentration camps, segregation, forced sterilization, taking the children, etc
We need socialism
Replacing a violent country with the system that historically always led to military dictatorships does not sound like a recipe for success.
You don’t need socialism, you need northern European style capitalism
This guy doesn’t know what socialism is and is too scared of bogeymen to learn.
Removed by mod
I’ve been! Met some lovely people. Saw some beautiful places. You should try leaving your home city just once in your sheltered closeted little life.
The world is not what Fox News is telling you it is.
Lmao, I am European. Wtf would I need to watch Fox news for?
Sorry bud but painting a stereotype is not really defending your position. Did CNN tell you that that was OK?
Well I figured you were either some dipshit from the flyover counties or, far more likely, an employee of a troll farm. I figured I’d give you the benefit of the doubt.
Oh yeah, all very good points. Maybe you can also call me a sexist fascist bigoted incel, that’ll really show off your knowledge on the subject
Eastern Europe hasn’t been socialist for 3 decades. What you see is the devastation of capitalism and western imperialism plundering formerly functional states.
You could argue that they’ve never been socialist, because like every other attempt it just devolved into military dictatorships. The effects of that attempt are still present today. Take any political or social map of Germany and you can still see where the old borders were
No, you cannot make that argument, because it isn’t true. Socialist states have had the working classes in control of the state, and this is proven with hard evidence from the opening of the soviet archives confirming leftist documentation and reporting within the SU. As for the former GDR, the communists were purged in show trials by the west, which never genuinely de-Nazified. That’s why there’s a far-right reaction there.
Mate, even the majority of socialists disagree with this view, let alone someone who is critical of socialism.
The USSR was a dictatorship full of nepotism and corruption, where you could get jailed for the dumbest reasons, ranging from being gay to practicing karate. None of these rules were established by workers and all of them were created by the bureaucracy.
The workers were the people who ended the USSR
Removed by mod
The last anything anyone needs is European anything. European capitalism brought the world the USA, two world wars, and imperialism. They’re on a 80 year experiment of having a small amount of welfare but it has never been enough and that is about to end when they remilitarize
Colonialism was not capitalism, there’s nothing capitalist about taking prisoners and stealing land for government charted monopolies.
Meanwhile northern Europe has the highest standard of living, healthcare quality, accessibility and life expectancy. And all of it is being paid for with the spoils of capitalism
You’re seriously going to tell me that Victorian imperialism wasn’t capitalism? That the rape of India wasn’t capitalism? That the Belgian congo wasn’t operated by capitalist investors? You’re ahistorical and an idiot. You think the Algerian colonies weren’t operated by European capitalists? Nazi Germany is a great example of European capitalism as well.
Your highest standard of living is based on capitalist exploitation of the entire world and the working class. Your sick, violent, white supremacist countries are about to flush it’s social democracy directly down the toilet to go to war with Russia too. Guns or Butter.
You’re delusional.
Talk with some actual capitalists, and they’ll all tell you that their core values are pretty much the opposite of whatever you’re describing here.
Capitalism is simply the most successful system in the world, so it’s an easy target for edgy teens who want something to blame for their failures.
But please do tell me how I’m exploiting the world, or how I’m violent or racist. Maybe you can call me an fascist incel so the word salad has all the cool things kids say nowadays
The only word I have for you is dipshit. Fuck off.
Brazil follows the great northern European style of capitalism and this shit doesn’t work if you don’t exploit the global south.
Brazil? Their maximum tax bracket isn’t even half of what I’m currently paying in taxes, and I’m not even in the highest bracket
I speak with liberals all the time, you’re again confusing the values espoused by liberalism to justify capitalism with the actual material system as it exists in the real world. As for imperialism, it functions as follows:
-The presence of monopolies which play a decisive role in economic life.
-The merging of bank capital with industrial capital into finance capital controlled by a financial oligarchy.
-The export of capital as distinguished from the simple export of commodities.
-The formation of international monopolist capitalist associations (cartels) and multinational corporations.
-The domination and exploitation of other countries by militaristic imperialist powers, now through neocolonialism.
-The territorial division of the whole world among the biggest capitalist powers.
The global north, Europe included, uses this export of capital to super-exploit foreign labor for super-profits. It also engages in unequal exchange, where the global south is prevented from moving up the value chain in production, allowing the global north to charge monopoly prices for commodities produced in the same labor hours.
Y’know, I was expecting a word salad of being called an incel, instead this is just a word salad of calling everything a monopoly. Half of the things you point to here are governmental actions, not capitalism. Capitalism is an economic system, not an ideology, it doesn’t control what the government should or shouldn’t do. And none of it even relates to the topic at hand, which was colonialism.
And financial oligarchies are 100% just a hallucination, prettied up in fancy words so it sounds like you’re making an argument. You do not need permission from an oligarchy to make financial transactions.
If the global north would stop trading with the global south, to “fix” this supposed exploitation, people like you would be the first to start crying about how an embargo on the south is preventing them from moving up the value chain in production. There is no logic here, just accusations. You have nothing to show but an attitude
Colonialism was absolutely an aspect of capitalism. You are correct that these high standards of living are paid for by capitalism, just that it’s stolen value from the labor of the global south through imperialism, not through European labor.
Private property and freedom of association are core aspects of capitalism, colonialism did none of those things. Capitalism didn’t arrive in the colonies until the colonists left.
You’re confusing values espoused by liberalism with the consequences of economies dominated by private property. Colonialism was driven by capitalism, and justified by liberalism. Further, I am talking about ongoing imperialism, not just colonialism.
just what exactly is liberal about invading foreign countries and submitting them to production quota’s at the threat of death?
Slaves were considered private property in the USAmerica, right?
Was USAmerica a colony during their civil war?The US Empire is still a settler-colony, to be clear.
Private property alone doesn’t make capitalism, by that logic the ancient civilzations of egypt and sumer would already be capitalist. Capitalism is a collection of ideas, from the right to own private property to freedom of association, none of which is compatible with slavery.
Which is a big reason why the capitalist countries were the first to outlaw slavery.
Removed by mod
Socialism has always led to working class control of the state. It’s a recipe for the uplifting of the working classes. European style capitalism relies on imperialism to fund their safety nets, and as imperialism is weakening so too are the safety nets, which is why austerity politics and the far-right are on the rise in Europe.
Please, do tell me more about… let’s say… the luxembourgish imperialism. Did they conquer any new nation recently?
Luxembourg’s role within western imperialism is as a tax haven. It’s a micronation that gets wealthy off of finance capital and being a glorified and legalized money laundering scheme.
So imperialism is… not taxing people? That’s a very fluid take on it
No? Imperialism is as I already laid out for you, a process by which the global north, dominated by monopoly finance capital, exports capital to the global south to super-exploit foreign labor for super-profits. Luxembourg’s role in that international system is as a foreign tax haven for the imperialists.
imperialism, state policy, practice, or advocacy of extending power and dominion, especially by direct territorial acquisition or by gaining political and economic control of other areas.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/imperialism
You know you can just look up these thing right?
Not taxing your citizens, is not imperialism. Luxembourg is not an imperialist country.
The process that you’re describing is called free trade. As soon as the global south doesn’t want to partake in this trade, they can stop. And Luxembourg wouldn’t have anything to say on that matter.
Removed by mod
They got away with Latin America coups, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and many more, they will got away with Venezuela and Palestine. In the end who can make them stop? The world is a jungle and in the jungle the law of the strongest prevails.
America is already worse than Russia, you guys just don’t remember recent history
70k dead in Gaza, half of them children. Russia didn’t do this.
2 things
- It says Nazi Germany not Russia
- Don’t imply I’m American, ew
Is it so hard to hold in your mind the concept that multiple countries may be evil?
Or are you just saying one is worse than the other? If so, why even? They both need dismantling.
What happens to a MFer with mental illness. This guy.
Knowing the truth is mental illness. Right.
The US would be better off if it becomes a socialist/communist country during the Great Depression - if any of you wanted an idea on what that would be like, read the althistory story “Reds! A Revolutionary Timeline”.
The thing is, there was a (twisted, yes, but actually there) logic to what the Reich did. What the US does appears to be fairly random as they change their mind every other week, and their rants rarely, if ever, make any sense.
They’re trying to re-assert control as their super-profits from imperialism are drying up and they need to boost domestic manufacturing. It’s rational, but has evil consequences and can’t actually work.
I mean this is what happens when you send your religious fanatics and criminals to colonize new lands. 🤷🏻♀️
This is only true of somebody does something about us.
So I can’t see most of the comments here on hexbear, but In going to assume you have a bunch of libs agreeing that yes Trump has made it worse, a few comrades pointing out the US has always been like this, and then a shitton of dumbass lemmitors spouting ahistorical red-scare arguments in response to those comrades.
I should make a “liberal thoughtkiller” flowchart. Everything they do is predetermined
Even got one blaming nazis invading Poland because they wanted to distract from government spending killing the German economy…
its been known to be worse than germany for hundreds of years, hitler based his concentration camps and the holocaust in part on the american treatment of indigenous people.
they killed tens of millions of people with muskets, 6 shooters, repeaters, and disease, on horses, and trains. all the while enslaving an entire race of human beings in the process. which arguably was the main reason they could enrich and modernize their country in the first place. free labour.
america has always ALWAYS been the bad guy. they just had really really good “marketing” and military strength for the last century.
what is happening now are the final flailings of a dying empire. it will stretch itself thin, bankrupt itself, crash the dollar, fuck the global economy, and be picked apart by oligarchs until mentioning the word “union” gets you shot on the spot, not by a robot police officer, but your fellow “patriot” between spoon fulls of soylent green.
the rot is far too deep, and the purification of chaos is, unfortunately, the only remedy, and an imminant one at that. whether we agree or not, like it or not, its coming, its here. and thats just the way it has to be, apparantly.
any social progress may have to wait a few decades, maybe even centuries depending on the outcome of WW3. if at all.
but, EVENTUALLY, if we survive it. there will be a social revolution, and hopefully that one creates a better life for those alive to live it. likely still just a handfull will enjoy everything life has to offer and more. but maybe, just maybe the masses will take back whats theirs and live fully again.
Fuckin’ hell, I feel like a kid in 2226 reading this on some kind of wall plaque after it was discovered in the cautionary history archives that survived the great fires. I think it struck me when I read this line:
the rot is far too deep, and the purification of chaos is, unfortunately, the only remedy
It’s just a very elegant way to describe the btshit craziness of living in “interesting times.”
Oh and hey future people who have presumably learned to be excellent to one another: put me in the plaque! It’s a thing we used to do on this old internet here with screenshots, you see.
Cool, can we fast forward to the hangings pls?
Another thing we can accuse the US and their UK poodles of it’s only hanging a handful of nazis for show in their Nurenberg showtrials. (if that’s what you’re referring to)
They gave the vast majority of nazis all the help they needed escaping to S-America, Canada, etc…
Or simply forgave them and left them in high positions.Operation Paperclip brought over 1600 Germans including many Nazi scientists and leadership into the US to provide engineering for the US military and politically engineer the 50 year fascist project starting with Dulles and solidifying total control under W Bush. The CIA which was created by merging the OSS with literal Nazi’s had the leader of the agency George Bush Sr, become president.
I’m tired of hearing about this as if it was the only one. It’s what they call a limited hangout.
Everyone knows it and it’s somewhat understandable from a pragmatic standpoint.
US/UK took effort to let them surrender to their western friends since the Russians would give the their deserved reward.
After which plenty somehow vanished.
And almost nobody knows about the ratlines, set up by the west to let all the other nazis escape.
Among them mass murderers like Klaus Barbie, Adolf Eichmann, Josef Mengele, Croatian Dictator Ante Pavelić, and Léon Degrelle.
And masses of low rank war criminals, the worst of the worst, including 1000’s of SS division Galizien from Ukraine.
Shipped to the UK and then got relocated with new names in Canada.
Their offspring still very active and with the same despicable ideology.
The Hunka incident is not a coincidence.I don’t think it is understandable to bring Nazi leadership into your country and allow them to develop a military 🤷♀️
The “understandable” veneer is that they were all apolitical scientists who only wanted to do more science.
Of course that’s not true, but that’s how it’s taught in schools.
not for us ‘normal’ people.
But the Paperclip were useful to them, that’s why it can be seen as an understandable excuse.
The rest certainly not.
Won’t matter.
I rather see a Cyberpunk2077 future happening
Considering the country was founded on the greatest genocide history has ever seen and chattel slavery, this should have been the case the whole time.
deleted by creator
Give me any nazi atrocity and I can provide an example of the US doing it, and probably far worse and on a larger scale.
Killing 6 million jewish people?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_genocide_in_the_United_States - 4+ million Native Americans killed in a time when overall populations where much lower. If that number were scaled to the 20th century population it would be an order of magnitude higher.
Why do you only mention the Jewish people and not the Roma, the homosexual, the transgender, the socialist, the communist or the many other groups targeted? Far more than 6 million were targets of genocide by the Nazis.
Killed an entire continent of peoples and enslaved millions of people from another one to make agricultural commodities.
Also during ww2 the US refused a ship of jews fleeing nazi germany and made them return.
They also won’t make anti-semitism illegal cause freeze peach, so US cops often protect white supremacist groups during protests from righteously outraged ppl. US cops also often recruit directly from those groups, and use them to carry out illegal things actions they don’t want to be responsible for. There isn’t enough space here to even get into the US’s anti-semitic past.
At once, in a assembly way or specifically targeting Jewish people?
Plus it’s not like they were cool with those trying to escape Germany. And chance would have sided with Germany if Britain had fallen.
The US has done many horrible things, but that’s an awful list to go by. It mixes US involvement in the Philippines and the nightmare that was with “Israel killed someone and it’s likely the US was aware”, NATO involvement in Bosnia, and the US usage of radio and press releases to influence world opinion in its favor.
Specific incidents in Bosnia? Certainly. But on the face of it, the US joining with other nations to intervene in an ethnically driven civil war isn’t an attrocity. The US being aware of an Israeli operation isn’t a US attrocity. Propaganda isn’t an attrocity.
Hell, one entry literally seemed to be “American soldiers reported a South Korean war crime through appropriate channels, and this didn’t change US foreign policy”Mixing actual attrocities in with the benign or unrelated things just dilutes the actual attrocities, particularly when the preamble says to play up to emotional outrage.
Someone didn’t read a history book.
Removed by mod
A huge amount of deaths are directly caused by US sanctions in numerous countries.
You should count thoseSimply trying to compare kill counts like history is call of duty only serves to dehumanize the victims.
In my view, just one aspect of the U.S. makes it the worst country ever: its role in the ecological crisis. The us is like three corporations in a trench coat, and a us corporation knew about anthropogenic climate change and kept that internal, and that’s just one instance of fuckery where there are plenty more. That’s the international elephant in the room which nobody seems willing to talk about. We need to also consider all the future atrocities as well as those in the past.
Removed by mod
The US nearly completely wiped out the indigenous people who lived there
When European settlers arrived in the Americas, historians estimate there were over 10 million Native Americans living there. By 1900, their estimated population was under 300,000. Native Americans were subjected to many different forms of violence, all with the intention of destroying the community. In the late 1800s, blankets from smallpox patients were distributed to Native Americans in order to spread disease. There were several wars, and violence was encouraged; for example, European settlers were paid for each Penobscot person they killed. In the 19th century, 4,000 Cherokee people died on the Trail of Tears, a forced march from the southern U.S. to Oklahoma. In the 20th century, civil rights violations were common, and discrimination continues to this day.
Multiple millions of people were captured in Africa and sold as slaves as well
They also partook in widespread ecocide to starve the natives. They deliberately killed every buffalo they could and let them out to rot.
Gosh, I guess we should talk about the British then as well.
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
Yes. They are the predecessor to the American empire.
Removed by mod
The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed.
Disgusting take, acting as if genocide was not colonial policy. You desperately need to read Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz - an indigenous people’s history of the US.
Thanks for the recommendation comrade, I’ll add it to my list
Removed by mod
The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed.
Germany didn’t write the holocaust out of their history like Americans did.
To mock the line I keep seeing in this thread full of apologists: Nazi Germany wasn’t quite there yet. They would have been as bad as the US if they had time.
Removed by mod
Nazi Germany literally modeled their society off of the United States from Jim Crow apartheid to the frontier genocide.
You’re wrong. It’s not a contest. If they had been allowed to ‘let things that happened a hundred years ago fade away’ like they were planning THEN it would be a contest because they would have succeeded in creating a European America.
The project of Nazi Germany is literally the same project as Israel is literally the same project as America
It is exactly one thing: Settler colonialism and the only difference is the conditions of when and where and who. But that only goes as far as the particulars.
Removed by mod
Broad estimates of US war victims range up to 12 million (a liberal estimate), whereas the Nazis killed over 13 million through mass killings alone (eg the Holocaust + exterminated minorities). The Soviet Union alone lost 20 to 27 million depending on who you ask.
In addition to the 500k-millions of native peoples and hundreds of tribes the US systematically nearly eradicated, lets take just a few more examples.
- Vietnam: 1.5M killed
- Laos: 300k
- Iraq: 1M
- Indonesia: 500k-1M
- Korea: 500k
- Japan: 200k-1M in civilian bombings
And I haven’t even started on operation condor and latin america yet.
And US America is still going, the worst is yet to come
The real tragedy is that of the victims who got stuck in the middle between two doctrines hell-bent on global domination.
The case of Imperial Japan is equivalent to that of Nazi Germany. A fascist regime that saw millions intentionally slaughtered and worked to death across Asia.
Here are some links for reading more about the killings related to:
This popped up in my feed today:
Removed by mod
Bro just admit it, US is the OG third Reich. It was literally founded on Genocide and kept doing it until the Native population became irrelevant. The Nazis literally planned Lebensraum after being inspired by ‘Manifest Destiny’ and modeled the Nuremberg laws after the Jim Crow. I suggest you read a book.
Removed by mod
I am once again telling you to pick up a history book on US imperialism. You fucks just care about atrocities more when it’s inflicted on white people more than when it’s inflicted on colored people. The US literally preserved fascism in the western hemisphere to prevent the spread of Socialism.
Removed by mod
I hope you take a moment and reflect on why you insist on approaching comparative history in this way.
Maybe it’s because this is a comment thread about comparative history being performed in the same manner?
The post does not go into kill counts as a direct comparison. It simply states that the us will be remembered as worse than nazi germany. So no, that is not the reason. I’m calling out your behavior specifically as problematic.
Removed by mod
Sounds like they are in good company, millions is millions, but I’d argue America has committed more genocides.
Even if you take the most extreme interpretation of US responsibility possible (eg adding another 1-1.7 million people for “luring” the Soviet Union into attacking Afghanistan), you don’t get to 25 million
Bullshit. One single US (+EU) policy, economic sanctions, has murdered 38 million in the past 50 Years and keeps murdering 500k yearly. One single policy.
Yeah nazi Germany was around for 13 years ish. I’m not saying there’s no comparison, I’m just saying there’s no comparison, yet.
Removed by mod
According to you, is there Apartheid in Venezuela? Hell, the US and Israel tried to keep the regime in South Africa going for as long as they could, so it doesn’t even make much sense. Not only that, but sanctions STILL cause the deaths of over 500k people a year. People like you and me. Stop defending imperialism and mass death.
Removed by mod
