I dunno db0, publicly calling out at Alsaas like this when she had nothing to do with it is out of line imo. It would have been removed by one of the lefty meme mods before long anyway. I see you kind of apologized to her but honestly I’m a bit annoyed on her behalf.
And as Alsaas said, currently the biggest moderation problem is not MLs, who are usually well informed at least, but the brain-dead “reds-under-the-bed” turbolibs in the comments, who’ve never even heard of Joe McCarthy.
I agree with Alsaas that content removal would have sufficed, so PTB in this case. And no hard feelings I hope.
Two things can be a problem at once. These double standards we have recently where we keep tolerating ml rhetoric in our comms is why hardcore tankies like this person and dogbert and others are emboldened to outright propagandize in our comms. It’s why we keep seeing actual anarchists refusing to associate with us out of disgust with how many tankies are here. And when we get straight up propaganda like this from people with a clear anarchist-hating history, we give a slap on the wrist. Enabling further propaganda.
No lib gets anywhere that amount of leeway in here.
Don’t forget lefty memes is for “actual” leftists, not for libs.
We usually start with post removal and then move on to a community ban if the user continues breaking the community rules. That’s standard practice no?
It’s why we keep seeing actual anarchists refusing to associate with us out of disgust with how many tankies are here.
Wut? Not all “actual” anarchists are rabidly anti ml ya know. The most pressing concern for me is fighting against rising fascism. If some mls want to post non-authoritarian lefty memes here that fit the instance rules, then what exactly is the problem?
And in regards to OP, yes I agree those particular memes were not appropriate for the community and should and would have been removed as a matter of course.
To put it in perspective, lefty memes is our top community and alsaas is a very sincere and thoughtful moderator who has been a big part of that success. I just don’t think it’s cool to get into pointless dramas with our own (good) mods just to justify your own mod actions in this post. People have feelings ya know.
If some mls want to post non-authoritarian lefty memes here that fit the instance rules, then what exactly is the problem?
The problem is exactly because an authoritarian ML posted a meme that doesn’t fit the instance rules. And now that they got off with a slap on the wrist, they continued to post similar shite. And that emboldens the rest like them.
I just don’t think it’s cool to get into pointless dramas with our own (good) mods just to justify your own mod actions in this post.
I don’t think it’s pointless. I see a troubling trend and I raised it at a relative moment. What would be a good point to raise this point? Randomly?
People have feelings ya know.
Sometimes I think y’all forget that the same applies to me, and I’m the one routinely dogpiled by libs and tankies. One going on right this moment about this post in fact.
EDIT:
Wut? Not all “actual” anarchists are rabidly anti ml ya know. The most pressing concern for me is fighting against rising fascism
I also think you took my statement the wrong way. It wasn’t meant to call the rest “fake”, but pointing out that platforming/facilitating authcom rhetoric, is driving away anarchists who see things different than you do.
I don’t think it’s pointless. I see a troubling trend and I raised it at a relative moment. What would be a good point to raise this point? Randomly?
Maybe when you aren’t on a hot streak of getting in internet fights with friends and foes alike? And ideally in a way that doesn’t make it look like you are throwing your own mods under the bus just to prove a point. Anyway I’m not gonna continue this here. If you actually want to have a proper conversation instead of public grandstanding then we can continue in matrix. I’m done with this here.
I fluctuate between Anarcho-Communist and Religious Anarchist depending on current events and how my neurodivergent brain that’s here in the US interprets these questions. For participating in your community and critiquing overt authoritarian takes, I am called “the liberal” by alsaaas (алсааас) in !queer_defense_front@lemmy.blahaj.zone, a tankie if I chime in on a news story that someone from lemmy.world happens to see, or even a wumao depending on how egregiously someone wants to lump me in with authoritarian communists for wishing to work with my neighbors to dissolve the American empire I was born in and suffer under.
The moderation of that community VERY strongly favors a specific authoritarian communist bent and makes revolutionary anarchists feel distinctly unwelcome anytime they try to say that they have an issue with this.
The specific issue I take here is that ‘“actual” leftist’ collapses left vs right into a binary when the political spectrum as a whole can’t be mapped out left and right, north and south, or even up and down. It needs a full 12 or more axes to exist within. Like. I’ve linked a quiz that is meant to critique the popular political compass model, and even then I find it to be a gross oversimplification of the entire political spectrum. Participating in your community gives no impression that it could be possible for anyone other than an authoritarian communist to not be called “the lib.”
And so we’re clear, I’m not trying to attack anyone’s feelings, I’m just trying to make a critique about the environment that your moderation style has created. You can take this critique or you can not. I won’t be participating in your community for the foreseeable future because it’s abundantly clear that people like me, anarchists who hate all forms of authority and the state, are not welcome and will never be welcome as long as you and alsaaas (алсааас) maintain your current understanding of what an “actual” leftist is.
I’m gonna go through the modlog and see if there is any truth to what you are claiming, because your assessment seems very vibes based to me right now. And I honestly can’t recall any pro authoritarian memes that have been permitted in this community. If you could maybe give some examples of memes that fit that category, that would be helpful, because honestly I’m confused by these claims.
https://slrpnk.net/post/32125051/19874575 This user in particular seems to be time super into North Korean monarchist authority structures (and gets gas from alsaaas nearly every time he posts)
I’ve stopped reporting most things after alsaaas took to commenting calling me “the liberal” on unrelated posts (infuriatingly when I was trying to back her up in a discussion about how electoralism will never save us, only give us a little bit of space to organize on the margins) leading me to believe that unless you, @Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com , see it first it’s just going to be dismissed because she considers me to be right wing.
(Disclaimer I am writing this just before going to sleep in the morning, I am eepy AF and not all that well articulated, but I wanted to address this nonetheless)
Not gonna engage here fully, just wanted to clarify that for some of your historical takes and other stuff I called you lib.
But people don’t exist on a one dimensional axis for me either, I see a person with lib historical takes => I say “lib”.
Doesn’t mean I think the other parts of you aren’t genuine or genuinely leftist. I’m just stressed and annoyed at all the lib takes I see on the comm so I’m naturally annoyed at what seems like more of them…
TL;DR: Doesn’t mean I think you are fully a lib (would probably have said shitlib then), but rather that IMO you have some lib elements in your thoughts that you should probably work on and are sometimes annoying me with.
Real TL;DR: You seem OK, some of your lib takes annoyed me for various reason, but I’m sorry for shooting left.
rather that IMO you have some lib elements in your thoughts that you should probably work on and are sometimes annoying me with.
I am going to do my best here to engage in good faith. I’ve found that increasingly hard to do in spaces where you are because I’ve asked you in the past to point me towards the specifics where I’m missing the ball and you’ve NEVER engaged with that, just continuing to double down on bullying me, so… I’m sorry if I’ve been assuming you haven’t been acting in good faith when you were trying to. That’s just the tenor I receive when I try to interact with you and all the feedback I get is either nothing, or throwing insults my way from the position of a moderator.
I will on a trial basis leave you unblocked and unblock your comm. All I ask is if I annoy you again, to treat me like a human being, and give me more to work with.
I will also add, I wonder how many other people you find yourself annoyed with feel the same as I’ve been feeling, because I definitely did not get the impression up to this point that you thought I was okay. It felt a whole hell of a lot more like anytime you took the time to read something I said you went out of your way to insult me rather than engaging with me like a human.
I’ve stopped reporting most things after alsaaas took to commenting calling me “the liberal” on unrelated posts (infuriatingly when I was trying to back her up in a discussion about how electoralism will never save us, only give us a little bit of space to organize on the margins) leading me to believe that unless you, @Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com , see it first it’s just going to be dismissed because she considers me to be right wing.
It’s probably best if alsaas speaks for herself on that, since I don’t really know how to respond. But I guess I can respond to the examples you provided.
What’s wrong with the first post exactly? Why would you consider it to be pro-authoritarian? It’s meant as a criticism of the surprisingly large number of Zionist German anarchists, which is a legitimate criticism imo. I don’t see how any anarchist can legitimately square that circle.
Also not a pro-authoritarian meme post. Are you referring to the reaction meme in the comments? Are you really arguing that a random laser-eyes meme comment (not post) is evidence of a pro-authoritarian bias in the community? Can I ask, is it the fact it’s someone attacking a liberal for selling the idea the Dems will ever move left (they won’t), or is it just the silly meme image that you feel is problematic? I mean a robotic laser-eyes Kim is clearly not meant to be taken seriously. Maybe I’m just too chill nowadays but it seems pretty harmless to me, as far as these things go.
And the third one is again some random comment at the bottom of a comment chain? I agree that one should be removed (done).
surprisingly large number of Zionist German anarchists, which is a legitimate criticism imo. I don’t see how any anarchist can legitimately square that circle.
It can’t. If it’s common I’ll back off on that one. It’s absolutely a circle that cannot be squared as an authoritarian regime on stolen land dehumanizing and de-indigenizing levantine people by claiming they are arabian is unacceptable.
Are you referring to the reaction meme in the comments? Are you really arguing that a random laser-eyes meme comment (not post) is evidence of a pro-authoritarian bias in the community? Can I ask, is it the fact it’s someone attacking a liberal for selling the idea the Dems will ever move left (they won’t), or is it just the silly meme image that you feel is problematic? I mean a robotic laser-eyes Kim is clearly not meant to be taken seriously. Maybe I’m just too chill nowadays but it seems pretty harmless to me, as far as these things go.
Look through that user’s comments. Being pro-NK is in this comment is not an isolated incident. I disagree with the comment they’re replying to as well, but that is WILDLY overcorrecting and normalizing a system of authority that amounts to monarchy. If you really don’t see it, I don’t know what to say as that’s pretty shocking. It’s like saying the nazis on 4chan aren’t serious and are just posting for the lulz up until their terrorism took to the streets in 2014 when suddenly it all became WAY to real. If you’re really chill with that, so be it, and continue on your way but I don’t want to participate in a discussion forum where that manner of behavior is treated as fine as it de-legitimizes efforts to oppose authority.
That last one I had previously reported before it was fully downvoted. That you aren’t seeing these things when they’re being reported and that they’re being left up is DEEPLY concerning to me. It seems like you’re taking a hands off approach to a community that people have noticed they can post their auth-comm propaganda to with at least relative impunity. @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com even said they’re getting concerned with this after he was specifically name dropped as being over-reacting AND was accused of “crashing out” which… either @alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com doesn’t know what that term means in AAVE or it means something different in her understood dialect of English from German, but it is WILDLY inappropriate to say @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com started this fight.
Look. My overall conclusion is if y’all wanna moderate your comm how you want, that’s fine. I’ve had it blocked for about a week because I don’t need the energy of authority clogging up my feed when I come home and try to decompress from a day of organizing my community and training people on ICE alerting signals. !mop@quokk.au and !memes@slrpnk.net are much more my speed. All I wanted to say is that @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com isn’t coming out of nowhere and the way the moderators of a community treat people will impact the tenor and temperature of that community. I’ve reached a place where I don’t want to deal with all this, so I haven’t been and I’ll continue to won’t.
First of all, I would firmly disagree with calling genuine ML(M)s “red fascists”, which is historically disingenuous and, in the present, dangerously inaccurate, especially regarding today’s global political climate.
I believe the rules of c/leftymemes are already expansive to prevent irrational idolization/glorification (i.e. exaggerating positive aspects or denying mistakes to the point of lying). However, stating historical fact, or using historical figures to subvert expectations, does not violate that.
Genuinely socialist memes of all stripes (!) have a place there as long as they adhere to the rules, which most do IMO. I admit that moderation could be more proactive and rules better enforced, but we don’t get don’t get a lot of reports either and currently the largest problem IMHO is the lib infestation in the comments…
When the proposed “solution” of the ML(M) would be to place me in a fascist regime with a red coat of paint and oppress me (if not outright murder me in the name of the revolution), I will fucking call them red fash.
or using historical figures to subvert expectations,
There’s a fine line between subverting expectations and glorifying authoritarian leaders, and the new crop of posts are hell bent on crossing over it just enough to not get caught.
When the proposed “solution” of the ML(M) would be to place me in a fascist regime with a red coat of paint and oppress me (if not outright murder me in the name of the revolution)
Just an FYI that this is a massive “[citation needed]” moment, literally no-one advocates for anything like that or even just reimplementing past socialist experiments (which happened under wildly different material conditions), 1:1 today. I believe you are building strawmen…
There’s a fine line between subverting expectations and glorifying authoritarian leaders, and the new crop of posts are hell bent on crossing over it just enough to not get caught.
Just showing them as characters in a meme != glorification IMHO (which is what has been happening in the posts that are still up, as far as I can tell).
Just an FYI that this is a massive “[citation needed]” moment, literally no-one advocates for anything like tha
How can you say that with a straight face, when there’s a whole-ass instance glorifying North Korea?
Not to mention that nobody outright says that they’re going to be oppressive. Lenin sounded great in 2017 1917 when he was writing effectively anarchist praxis. We just know that the creation of a new state is going to inevitably end up oppressing and killing those who oppose creating a state.
Apologies for the wording, I meant that in the “genuine ML(M)” context
Edit:
whole-ass instance glorifying North Korea
Also I don’t believe that to be unnuanced uncritical support that wants to blindly copy everything about it either, but largely geopolitical and critical support
No? I’m writing from an anti-revisionist, revolutionary Marxist position.
Please also take this into account:
[…] I don’t believe that to be unnuanced uncritical support that wants to blindly copy everything about it either, but largely geopolitical and critical support
Cowbee is out there saying that China is their ideal model of communism, so I’m not going to be surprised if there’s MLs who fucking love NK as it is right now. But I’m not going to delve into Lemmygrad to prove a point.
No? I’m writing from an anti-revisionist, revolutionary Marxist position.
Unfortunately every Marxist position thinks they’re the one true “anti-revisionist, revolutionary”
When the proposed “solution” of the ML(M) would be to place me in a fascist regime with a red coat of paint and oppress me (if not outright murder me in the name of the revolution), I will fucking call them red fash.
Just feel that this needs addressing:
Socialism and communism aren’t fascism. Fascism is inherently a violent protection of the bourgeoisie, not a collectivized system of production and distribution.
There are no real examples of communists issuing blanket “kill all the anarchists for thought crimes!” orders. Fighting has existed, sure, but never a one-sided affair.
Essentially, this isn’t a “solution” posited by anybody.
No, the “evil commies” don’t want to oppress you. We disagree on how society should be organized, but that doesn’t make communists anywhere close to fascists. Where anarchists seek communalized and decentralized production and distribution, communists seek collectivized production and distribution, and both of these are entirely different from fascism and the system of private ownership that oppresses us today.
Your comm is starting to attract too many red fash who take it as a useful propaganda platform.
I dunno db0, publicly calling out at Alsaas like this when she had nothing to do with it is out of line imo. It would have been removed by one of the lefty meme mods before long anyway. I see you kind of apologized to her but honestly I’m a bit annoyed on her behalf.
And as Alsaas said, currently the biggest moderation problem is not MLs, who are usually well informed at least, but the brain-dead “reds-under-the-bed” turbolibs in the comments, who’ve never even heard of Joe McCarthy.
I agree with Alsaas that content removal would have sufficed, so PTB in this case. And no hard feelings I hope.
Two things can be a problem at once. These double standards we have recently where we keep tolerating ml rhetoric in our comms is why hardcore tankies like this person and dogbert and others are emboldened to outright propagandize in our comms. It’s why we keep seeing actual anarchists refusing to associate with us out of disgust with how many tankies are here. And when we get straight up propaganda like this from people with a clear anarchist-hating history, we give a slap on the wrist. Enabling further propaganda.
No lib gets anywhere that amount of leeway in here.
Don’t forget lefty memes is for “actual” leftists, not for libs.
We usually start with post removal and then move on to a community ban if the user continues breaking the community rules. That’s standard practice no?
Wut? Not all “actual” anarchists are rabidly anti ml ya know. The most pressing concern for me is fighting against rising fascism. If some mls want to post non-authoritarian lefty memes here that fit the instance rules, then what exactly is the problem?
And in regards to OP, yes I agree those particular memes were not appropriate for the community and should and would have been removed as a matter of course.
To put it in perspective, lefty memes is our top community and alsaas is a very sincere and thoughtful moderator who has been a big part of that success. I just don’t think it’s cool to get into pointless dramas with our own (good) mods just to justify your own mod actions in this post. People have feelings ya know.
The problem is exactly because an authoritarian ML posted a meme that doesn’t fit the instance rules. And now that they got off with a slap on the wrist, they continued to post similar shite. And that emboldens the rest like them.
I don’t think it’s pointless. I see a troubling trend and I raised it at a relative moment. What would be a good point to raise this point? Randomly?
Sometimes I think y’all forget that the same applies to me, and I’m the one routinely dogpiled by libs and tankies. One going on right this moment about this post in fact.
EDIT:
I also think you took my statement the wrong way. It wasn’t meant to call the rest “fake”, but pointing out that platforming/facilitating authcom rhetoric, is driving away anarchists who see things different than you do.
Maybe when you aren’t on a hot streak of getting in internet fights with friends and foes alike? And ideally in a way that doesn’t make it look like you are throwing your own mods under the bus just to prove a point. Anyway I’m not gonna continue this here. If you actually want to have a proper conversation instead of public grandstanding then we can continue in matrix. I’m done with this here.
I think the problem I have is what an “actual” leftist is defined as for your community.
For full disclosure, here is my 12 Axes
I fluctuate between Anarcho-Communist and Religious Anarchist depending on current events and how my neurodivergent brain that’s here in the US interprets these questions. For participating in your community and critiquing overt authoritarian takes, I am called “the liberal” by alsaaas (алсааас) in !queer_defense_front@lemmy.blahaj.zone, a tankie if I chime in on a news story that someone from lemmy.world happens to see, or even a wumao depending on how egregiously someone wants to lump me in with authoritarian communists for wishing to work with my neighbors to dissolve the American empire I was born in and suffer under.
The moderation of that community VERY strongly favors a specific authoritarian communist bent and makes revolutionary anarchists feel distinctly unwelcome anytime they try to say that they have an issue with this.
The specific issue I take here is that ‘“actual” leftist’ collapses left vs right into a binary when the political spectrum as a whole can’t be mapped out left and right, north and south, or even up and down. It needs a full 12 or more axes to exist within. Like. I’ve linked a quiz that is meant to critique the popular political compass model, and even then I find it to be a gross oversimplification of the entire political spectrum. Participating in your community gives no impression that it could be possible for anyone other than an authoritarian communist to not be called “the lib.”
And so we’re clear, I’m not trying to attack anyone’s feelings, I’m just trying to make a critique about the environment that your moderation style has created. You can take this critique or you can not. I won’t be participating in your community for the foreseeable future because it’s abundantly clear that people like me, anarchists who hate all forms of authority and the state, are not welcome and will never be welcome as long as you and alsaaas (алсааас) maintain your current understanding of what an “actual” leftist is.
I’m gonna go through the modlog and see if there is any truth to what you are claiming, because your assessment seems very vibes based to me right now. And I honestly can’t recall any pro authoritarian memes that have been permitted in this community. If you could maybe give some examples of memes that fit that category, that would be helpful, because honestly I’m confused by these claims.
I’ve stopped reporting most things after alsaaas took to commenting calling me “the liberal” on unrelated posts (infuriatingly when I was trying to back her up in a discussion about how electoralism will never save us, only give us a little bit of space to organize on the margins) leading me to believe that unless you, @Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com , see it first it’s just going to be dismissed because she considers me to be right wing.
(Disclaimer I am writing this just before going to sleep in the morning, I am eepy AF and not all that well articulated, but I wanted to address this nonetheless)
Not gonna engage here fully, just wanted to clarify that for some of your historical takes and other stuff I called you lib.
But people don’t exist on a one dimensional axis for me either, I see a person with lib historical takes => I say “lib”.
Doesn’t mean I think the other parts of you aren’t genuine or genuinely leftist. I’m just stressed and annoyed at all the lib takes I see on the comm so I’m naturally annoyed at what seems like more of them…
TL;DR: Doesn’t mean I think you are fully a lib (would probably have said shitlib then), but rather that IMO you have some lib elements in your thoughts that you should probably work on and are sometimes annoying me with.
Real TL;DR: You seem OK, some of your lib takes annoyed me for various reason, but I’m sorry for shooting left.
I am going to do my best here to engage in good faith. I’ve found that increasingly hard to do in spaces where you are because I’ve asked you in the past to point me towards the specifics where I’m missing the ball and you’ve NEVER engaged with that, just continuing to double down on bullying me, so… I’m sorry if I’ve been assuming you haven’t been acting in good faith when you were trying to. That’s just the tenor I receive when I try to interact with you and all the feedback I get is either nothing, or throwing insults my way from the position of a moderator.
I will on a trial basis leave you unblocked and unblock your comm. All I ask is if I annoy you again, to treat me like a human being, and give me more to work with.
I will also add, I wonder how many other people you find yourself annoyed with feel the same as I’ve been feeling, because I definitely did not get the impression up to this point that you thought I was okay. It felt a whole hell of a lot more like anytime you took the time to read something I said you went out of your way to insult me rather than engaging with me like a human.
It’s probably best if alsaas speaks for herself on that, since I don’t really know how to respond. But I guess I can respond to the examples you provided.
It can’t. If it’s common I’ll back off on that one. It’s absolutely a circle that cannot be squared as an authoritarian regime on stolen land dehumanizing and de-indigenizing levantine people by claiming they are arabian is unacceptable.
Look through that user’s comments. Being pro-NK is in this comment is not an isolated incident. I disagree with the comment they’re replying to as well, but that is WILDLY overcorrecting and normalizing a system of authority that amounts to monarchy. If you really don’t see it, I don’t know what to say as that’s pretty shocking. It’s like saying the nazis on 4chan aren’t serious and are just posting for the lulz up until their terrorism took to the streets in 2014 when suddenly it all became WAY to real. If you’re really chill with that, so be it, and continue on your way but I don’t want to participate in a discussion forum where that manner of behavior is treated as fine as it de-legitimizes efforts to oppose authority.
That last one I had previously reported before it was fully downvoted. That you aren’t seeing these things when they’re being reported and that they’re being left up is DEEPLY concerning to me. It seems like you’re taking a hands off approach to a community that people have noticed they can post their auth-comm propaganda to with at least relative impunity. @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com even said they’re getting concerned with this after he was specifically name dropped as being over-reacting AND was accused of “crashing out” which… either @alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com doesn’t know what that term means in AAVE or it means something different in her understood dialect of English from German, but it is WILDLY inappropriate to say @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com started this fight.
Look. My overall conclusion is if y’all wanna moderate your comm how you want, that’s fine. I’ve had it blocked for about a week because I don’t need the energy of authority clogging up my feed when I come home and try to decompress from a day of organizing my community and training people on ICE alerting signals. !mop@quokk.au and !memes@slrpnk.net are much more my speed. All I wanted to say is that @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com isn’t coming out of nowhere and the way the moderators of a community treat people will impact the tenor and temperature of that community. I’ve reached a place where I don’t want to deal with all this, so I haven’t been and I’ll continue to won’t.
First of all, I would firmly disagree with calling genuine ML(M)s “red fascists”, which is historically disingenuous and, in the present, dangerously inaccurate, especially regarding today’s global political climate.
I believe the rules of c/leftymemes are already expansive to prevent irrational idolization/glorification (i.e. exaggerating positive aspects or denying mistakes to the point of lying). However, stating historical fact, or using historical figures to subvert expectations, does not violate that.
Genuinely socialist memes of all stripes (!) have a place there as long as they adhere to the rules, which most do IMO. I admit that moderation could be more proactive and rules better enforced, but we don’t get don’t get a lot of reports either and currently the largest problem IMHO is the lib infestation in the comments…
When the proposed “solution” of the ML(M) would be to place me in a fascist regime with a red coat of paint and oppress me (if not outright murder me in the name of the revolution), I will fucking call them red fash.
There’s a fine line between subverting expectations and glorifying authoritarian leaders, and the new crop of posts are hell bent on crossing over it just enough to not get caught.
Just an FYI that this is a massive “[citation needed]” moment, literally no-one advocates for anything like that or even just reimplementing past socialist experiments (which happened under wildly different material conditions), 1:1 today. I believe you are building strawmen…
Just showing them as characters in a meme != glorification IMHO (which is what has been happening in the posts that are still up, as far as I can tell).
How can you say that with a straight face, when there’s a whole-ass instance glorifying North Korea?
Not to mention that nobody outright says that they’re going to be oppressive. Lenin sounded great in
20171917 when he was writing effectively anarchist praxis. We just know that the creation of a new state is going to inevitably end up oppressing and killing those who oppose creating a state.Apologies for the wording, I meant that in the “genuine ML(M)” context
Edit:
Also I don’t believe that to be unnuanced uncritical support that wants to blindly copy everything about it either, but largely geopolitical and critical support
Isn’t that a No True Scotsman?
No? I’m writing from an anti-revisionist, revolutionary Marxist position.
Please also take this into account:
Cowbee is out there saying that China is their ideal model of communism, so I’m not going to be surprised if there’s MLs who fucking love NK as it is right now. But I’m not going to delve into Lemmygrad to prove a point.
Unfortunately every Marxist position thinks they’re the one true “anti-revisionist, revolutionary”
Wrong timeline champ. He’s still dead in this one 😜
That’s what they want you to think!
Dogbert. Your most active user who got instance banned. They do that all the time and you gas them up.
Just feel that this needs addressing:
Socialism and communism aren’t fascism. Fascism is inherently a violent protection of the bourgeoisie, not a collectivized system of production and distribution.
There are no real examples of communists issuing blanket “kill all the anarchists for thought crimes!” orders. Fighting has existed, sure, but never a one-sided affair.
Essentially, this isn’t a “solution” posited by anybody.
No, the “evil commies” don’t want to oppress you. We disagree on how society should be organized, but that doesn’t make communists anywhere close to fascists. Where anarchists seek communalized and decentralized production and distribution, communists seek collectivized production and distribution, and both of these are entirely different from fascism and the system of private ownership that oppresses us today.
My god you’re annoying.
Nope 👍
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