There are a lot of communists here, FOSS attracts us and Lemmy in particular was made and is developed by communists. The PRC is a socialist country governed by communists, so most communists support it.
The PRC is a dictatorship of the proletariat, it’s a democratic country that restricts the rights and free movement of capitalists. Public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, controlling the large firms and key industries, finance sector, etc, while private and cooperative ownership dominates the small and medium firms. About half the private sector is just sole proprietorships, which don’t make much sense to socialize immediately anyways from a Marxist perspective.
I stand by that statement, it’s a socialist country governed by communists, and the majority of communists support it.
Communists do support communist ideals, though. Socialist states have brought dramatic improvements, such as doubling life expectancy in Russia and China, 99.9% literacy rates, democratization of the economy, massive improvements to healthcare and education, low homeless rates, poverty alleviation, and more. I don’t “worship” states, I support socialism as a system for improving the lives of the people.
Trotsky was wrong. The biggest reason Trotsky was wrong was because he believed the peasantry to be counter-revolutionary, which was the basis of Permanent Revolution. However, even simple investigation into socialist states like China prove them to be more genuinely democratic than what preceded it. For example, look at the perceptions of democracy in China:
The real problem with Trotskyism, other than the inapplicability of Permanent Revolution, is that its conclusions are inflexibly against real socialism in modern implementation. Few Trotskyist orgs support AES, while none have established socialism themselves. It’s a deeply western, fatalistic tendency.
We are discussing so-called “Communists” on this platform. You and I both know this place is crawling with history denialists (particularly the events of June 1989). Any “ideology” that is more concerned about preserving the image of the state over accepting responsibility is not an ideology worth my or anybody else’s time. It’s insulting and little and pathetic.
I’m interested in the merits of communism, but all this platform does is re-hash the same state approved talking points over and over. It’s tiring and isn’t winning anybody with an ounce of morality over.
I don’t agree with the idea that “this place is crawling with history denialists.” What it is “crawling” with are people that combat the westernized, atrocity propaganda version of June 4th, 1989, instead contextualizing it with what’s actually confirmed. For example, western myth-making talks about tanks running over everyone on the square, resulting in 10,000 killed, but what actually happened is that dispersal of the square was peaceful, but on the way to the square hundreds of rioters and PLA members died in fighting around Beijing. This isn’t “denialism,” but instead deflecting western atrocity propaganda.
We do accept responsibility, and aren’t interested in lying, but when we know that the character of events is quantitatively and qualitatively different from the version western anti-communists beat us over the head with, we are forced to confront them honestly. What’s insulting and little and pathetic isn’t the communists combatting misinformation, but the anti-communists less interested in truth and more interested in wielding whatever convenient narrative they can like a club.
One thing that’s important is that when we talk about communism, honestly judging its merits and flaws, people come to communism. I made an intro ML reading list, as an example, that others seem to like. Also, around the world, communist orgs are growing in membership.
The point of this all is that you’ve done no real effort to explain how we falsify history, you’ve vaguely asserted it while belittling our efforts. Your citation is that “you and I know this,” which isn’t a source, nor is it accurate, yet you’re using this narrative like a club to try to shut me down, regardless of the truth of the matter. It’s thought-terminating.
You and I both know I will be banned if I posted (the freely available) photos. It’s easy to claim something never happened when you own and control the platform.
You’re being intentionally disingenuous and you know it.
You mean like the west is trying to do there to be a fifth column similar like they already do in Taiwan in order to further western capitalist interests? I take it you’ve actually never been on weibo
Among other things critique of the government and political discussios. China even has a hotline you can call for various complaints you have for the government to take care of.
What you won’t see is sinophobic Winnie’s the poh memes “criticizing” le sissype
Sorry I couldn’t parse that first sentence could you rephrase?
Also, I actually have been on Weibo but it really seemed too like… pop culture obsessed? Not my thing, plus my Mandarin sucked even back then when I was still actively learning it
I have also seen c/manufacturingconsent.
Anyway, I’m guessing you brought up Weibo as a “people can talk bad about the government there so clearly they don’t censor anti China speech” but that’s really not an argument.
China is pretty open about its regulation of the media. I mean you’ve likely read the terms and conditions for some of their media platforms so you already know it’s against their policies to promote ideas contrary to the vision/interests of the CCP or create dissent or however they phrase it. I’m sure small comments slip through here and there because their impact is small and censorship takes effort, but major posts against the government are not staying up very long. (If you can find long standing / popular dissenting post on Weibo to prove me wrong I’ll change my mind on this)
As for bringing up manufacturing consent and “what the west is trying to do” guess what buddy, if lots of people/organizations are doing a fucked up thing, it’s still a fucked up thing.
To be fair, I think trying to ensure your citizens hear good news is actually a pretty good idea, but I’m not a big fan of censoring news in order to make that happen.
Want to make the good news I see outnumber the bad 10:1? Fine, but leave the bad news in there. And I definitely don’t think organizations should censor their failures/problems. Admitting when you’ve made a mistake shows you’re trying to improve; hiding your mistakes makes you seem much less trustworthy in general.
Sorry I couldn’t parse that first sentence could you rephrase?
Western hegemony works a lot with creating NGOs, Think-tanks, pushing their Social Media platforms, News agencies, etc. onto other countries to further their interests in these and undermining their sovereignity. If a countries recognize this and kick those out they are instantly labeled authoritarian or limiting their freedom of speech (of course it’s no problem when it’s happening in western countries e.g. RT, TASS with the outbreak of the war). It’s what what my comment referencing manufacturing consent was hinting at
against their policies to promote ideas contrary to the vision/interests of the CCP or create dissent or however they phrase
The CPC is very popular and has 100M members, meaning pretty much everyone in their family has a member there. Long Term studies show that the Chinese are pretty much satified with their government. Allowing for open criticism is opening the gates for the west to undermine their sovereignity (it’s not like the CPC isn’t responding to it e.g. COVID restrictions after minor protests broke out)
Want to make the good news I see outnumber the bad 10:1? Fine, but leave the bad news in there. And I definitely don’t think organizations should censor their failures/problems. Admitting when you’ve made a mistake shows you’re trying to improve; hiding your mistakes makes you seem much less trustworthy in general.
I agree, but you underestimate the soft power the US and the west in general has pushing their narrative and undermining progressive movements worldwide. China, unlike the west, has been subject to imperialism so it’s understandable to have a tighter grip on narrative (I mean the west and generally all nation states do that to some degree)
Why is there so much Chinese propaganda on lemmy?
"Anything short of vitriolic hate of the CPC and Chinese people is pro Chinese propaganda. " Washingtons strongest soldier
Cultural victory. Did you never play Europa Universalis
There are a lot of communists here, FOSS attracts us and Lemmy in particular was made and is developed by communists. The PRC is a socialist country governed by communists, so most communists support it.
Tell me more about the flagship dictatorship of late stage capitalism. You:
The PRC is a dictatorship of the proletariat, it’s a democratic country that restricts the rights and free movement of capitalists. Public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, controlling the large firms and key industries, finance sector, etc, while private and cooperative ownership dominates the small and medium firms. About half the private sector is just sole proprietorships, which don’t make much sense to socialize immediately anyways from a Marxist perspective.
I stand by that statement, it’s a socialist country governed by communists, and the majority of communists support it.
The political discussion here would be much more enticing if these “communists” actually supported communist ideals. This is just state worship.
Leftism is dead and buried. Look up the concept of a “deformed worker’s state” and tell me it doesn’t describe China to a tee.
Trotsky was right and was assassinated for it.
Communists do support communist ideals, though. Socialist states have brought dramatic improvements, such as doubling life expectancy in Russia and China, 99.9% literacy rates, democratization of the economy, massive improvements to healthcare and education, low homeless rates, poverty alleviation, and more. I don’t “worship” states, I support socialism as a system for improving the lives of the people.
Trotsky was wrong. The biggest reason Trotsky was wrong was because he believed the peasantry to be counter-revolutionary, which was the basis of Permanent Revolution. However, even simple investigation into socialist states like China prove them to be more genuinely democratic than what preceded it. For example, look at the perceptions of democracy in China:
This is combined with over 90% of the population supporting their government. Consistent studies like this point to something beyond whatever Trotsky believed. Roland Boer’s Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance goes over how socialist countries have established democratic control.
The real problem with Trotskyism, other than the inapplicability of Permanent Revolution, is that its conclusions are inflexibly against real socialism in modern implementation. Few Trotskyist orgs support AES, while none have established socialism themselves. It’s a deeply western, fatalistic tendency.
Explain to me how denying history because it is shameful is a “communist ideal” and then we can talk.
Can you explain? What do you mean by this vague statement?
We are discussing so-called “Communists” on this platform. You and I both know this place is crawling with history denialists (particularly the events of June 1989). Any “ideology” that is more concerned about preserving the image of the state over accepting responsibility is not an ideology worth my or anybody else’s time. It’s insulting and little and pathetic.
I’m interested in the merits of communism, but all this platform does is re-hash the same state approved talking points over and over. It’s tiring and isn’t winning anybody with an ounce of morality over.
I don’t agree with the idea that “this place is crawling with history denialists.” What it is “crawling” with are people that combat the westernized, atrocity propaganda version of June 4th, 1989, instead contextualizing it with what’s actually confirmed. For example, western myth-making talks about tanks running over everyone on the square, resulting in 10,000 killed, but what actually happened is that dispersal of the square was peaceful, but on the way to the square hundreds of rioters and PLA members died in fighting around Beijing. This isn’t “denialism,” but instead deflecting western atrocity propaganda.
We do accept responsibility, and aren’t interested in lying, but when we know that the character of events is quantitatively and qualitatively different from the version western anti-communists beat us over the head with, we are forced to confront them honestly. What’s insulting and little and pathetic isn’t the communists combatting misinformation, but the anti-communists less interested in truth and more interested in wielding whatever convenient narrative they can like a club.
One thing that’s important is that when we talk about communism, honestly judging its merits and flaws, people come to communism. I made an intro ML reading list, as an example, that others seem to like. Also, around the world, communist orgs are growing in membership.
The point of this all is that you’ve done no real effort to explain how we falsify history, you’ve vaguely asserted it while belittling our efforts. Your citation is that “you and I know this,” which isn’t a source, nor is it accurate, yet you’re using this narrative like a club to try to shut me down, regardless of the truth of the matter. It’s thought-terminating.
You and I both know I will be banned if I posted (the freely available) photos. It’s easy to claim something never happened when you own and control the platform.
You’re being intentionally disingenuous and you know it.
See the above comment for more detail
stay mad
I don’t know. I just joined a new instance hoping it would be better. Spoiler: It’s not better.
Have you considered going back to reddit?
Have you?
Why would I? I’m not the one whining about seeing leftists
leftism = good
propaganda = bad
Easy concept my friend
And yet you seem to be struggling with it.
Removed by mod
Why is there so much anti-chinese propaganda everywhere else?
Not everywhere else, China bans speech that shows the party or the country in a negative light lol
You mean like the west is trying to do there to be a fifth column similar like they already do in Taiwan in order to further western capitalist interests? I take it you’ve actually never been on weibo
Have you actually ever seen c/manufactureconsent?
What would I expect to find on weibo?
Edit: why the dislikes? I’m just genuinly curious!
Idol discussion.
I’m not sure where others are getting the idea that it’s not censored.
When I was on a few years ago, it reminded me of Facebook.
Among other things critique of the government and political discussios. China even has a hotline you can call for various complaints you have for the government to take care of. What you won’t see is sinophobic Winnie’s the poh memes “criticizing” le sissype
Sorry I couldn’t parse that first sentence could you rephrase?
Also, I actually have been on Weibo but it really seemed too like… pop culture obsessed? Not my thing, plus my Mandarin sucked even back then when I was still actively learning it
I have also seen c/manufacturingconsent.
Anyway, I’m guessing you brought up Weibo as a “people can talk bad about the government there so clearly they don’t censor anti China speech” but that’s really not an argument.
China is pretty open about its regulation of the media. I mean you’ve likely read the terms and conditions for some of their media platforms so you already know it’s against their policies to promote ideas contrary to the vision/interests of the CCP or create dissent or however they phrase it. I’m sure small comments slip through here and there because their impact is small and censorship takes effort, but major posts against the government are not staying up very long. (If you can find long standing / popular dissenting post on Weibo to prove me wrong I’ll change my mind on this)
As for bringing up manufacturing consent and “what the west is trying to do” guess what buddy, if lots of people/organizations are doing a fucked up thing, it’s still a fucked up thing.
To be fair, I think trying to ensure your citizens hear good news is actually a pretty good idea, but I’m not a big fan of censoring news in order to make that happen.
Want to make the good news I see outnumber the bad 10:1? Fine, but leave the bad news in there. And I definitely don’t think organizations should censor their failures/problems. Admitting when you’ve made a mistake shows you’re trying to improve; hiding your mistakes makes you seem much less trustworthy in general.
Western hegemony works a lot with creating NGOs, Think-tanks, pushing their Social Media platforms, News agencies, etc. onto other countries to further their interests in these and undermining their sovereignity. If a countries recognize this and kick those out they are instantly labeled authoritarian or limiting their freedom of speech (of course it’s no problem when it’s happening in western countries e.g. RT, TASS with the outbreak of the war). It’s what what my comment referencing manufacturing consent was hinting at
The CPC is very popular and has 100M members, meaning pretty much everyone in their family has a member there. Long Term studies show that the Chinese are pretty much satified with their government. Allowing for open criticism is opening the gates for the west to undermine their sovereignity (it’s not like the CPC isn’t responding to it e.g. COVID restrictions after minor protests broke out)
I agree, but you underestimate the soft power the US and the west in general has pushing their narrative and undermining progressive movements worldwide. China, unlike the west, has been subject to imperialism so it’s understandable to have a tighter grip on narrative (I mean the west and generally all nation states do that to some degree)
Because this is a communist website.