Was anybody at all saying that this was all the result of sloppy training under Trump? The GOP wasn’t saying that, because they praise everything Trump does. The most useless and cowardly of the democrats did mention training, but not as the only issue. Two things can be true: the new recruits that have joined in the last year are undertrained and incompetent, and the entire institution is rotten to the core.
ICE and Border Patrol are rotten. But, it’s not just them. All policing in the US needs to be torn apart and rebuilt. Too many bad apples were left in the bunch, and now the bunch has rotted. Police officers really need to believe in their core that their mission is “To Protect And Serve”. They can’t see themselves as the “Thin Blue Line” between order and chaos. I would bet that the majority of American police would sneer in derision at Robert Peel’s principles of policing, when really that should be a bare minimum 19th century historical document that is taken for granted in the modern world.
Was anybody at all saying that this was all the result of sloppy training under Trump?
The Lincoln Project, for starters. Hakeem Jeffries got on the “they just need more training” bandwagon recently. Lots of Op-Eds about how “Abolish ICE isn’t helping” have said this
All policing in the US needs to be torn apart and rebuilt.
Preach it
Show me the link where they said it was all the result of sloppy training under Trump.
I’m not saying they never said that the agents needed more training. I’m saying the claim is that it is all the result of sloppy training. That there are no other issues.
Policing in general in the USA needs reform. You’ve got most officers training to use their gun first and ask questions later, like they are at war with the citizens in their jurisdictions. Sometimes that might be necessary, but mostly not. I get the job can be dangerous, but they signed up for it. If the only tool you give them is a hammer, everything becomes a nail.
Being a cop is a less dangerous job than being a pizza delivery driver. The vast majority of cops go their entire careers without firing a shot except at the range. Yet they act like every time they stop someone for speeding they’re about to be murdered.
It’s a fact that because of the American gun culture that’s more true in the US than it is in most countries. So, maybe as long as the US has guaranteed gun rights and the accompanying gun culture, US cops will be in slightly more danger than cops around the world. But, there’s no reason that the job couldn’t fundamentally be about keeping people safe vs. shooting bad guys.
Besides the fact that police come from slave-catchers and are an institution which should be entirely abolished, perhaps replaced with state-run SWAT teams for the scenarios that actually require an armed response and community safety officers for everything else, what you’re talking about is largely a result of the so-called ““War on Terror””. There was so much extra equipment from the Middle East that much of it was given for free to police officers. Military equipment plus military training (see “The Rise of the Warrior Cop”) resulted in police that view and treat America like a battleground and all citizens as potential threats.
See also, Dave Grossman and “Killology Training.”
I think an argument could be made that the agencies’ rottenness hadn’t mattered, that prior to 2025 they would have been this disastrous, but were never broadly deployed in a way where it had such dire consequences as now.
I think the agencies’ rottenness was a back burner issue. It mattered, but there were so many other things that mattered more. There’s also the fact that the victims of awful ICE and Border Patrol agents were almost never Americans. They even knew better than to touch Europeans or rich Asians. As a result, any terrible things they did mostly stayed under the radar.
Just imagine what these people have been doing at the border with no witnesses for miles.
The 2018 migrant detention centers.
Apparently people thought this was where “illegal immigrants” stayed when in reality it was asylum seekers.
Yup. The only difference here is the number of cameras and the social status of the victims.
It’s about permission. These guys have always been there harbouring their evil thoughts but the system never allowed them to indulge.
Now they have permission.
Trump is just accelerating it.
If it wasn’t Trump, it would be somebody else similar.
Some guy like him accelerating the speed of collapse is pretty standard at this stage of the Rise & Fall cycle of Empire (of which the US is most definitely in the Fall stage and has been since maybe all the way back in the late 70s).
The whole “elite pillaging” stage of the last couple of decades in an extremelly nationalist nation with a massive myth of national greatness was bound to deliver a populist strongman that promised to “restore the greatness of the nation”.
Maybe you’ll be lucky and avoid the whole “overextending itself in a war against multiple enemies / a peer level enemy” kind of thing that also often happens at this stage.
We’ve been doing that for the entirety of the cold war
It’s what we keep saying - this isn’t a blip, it’s the acute presentation of a systemic disease that’s been developing for decades.
Trump is the symptom. Capitalism is the disease. Socialism is the cure.
Americans say their national passtime is Baseball.
The rest of the world says America’s national passtime is murder.
The rest of the world has no room to fucking talk. People in glass houses and all that.
This really has become the go to excuse for Americans, hasn’t it? They can no longer pretend they’re not doing terrible things, do they move down the list of justifications to “well I’m sure everyone else is doing it too”
I’m sorry, I couldn’t hear you over all that freedom and democracy. Or was that gunfire? It’s sometimes hard to distinguish the two.
Idk. I just feel like making fun of the victims of fascism to be in poor taste 🤷🏻
Fascism is very much the natural end state of ultra-nationalism.
A lot of those “victims” in America were fine with the culture of flag shagging leading to this.
(All it takes is to look at American interventions abroad to see that pretty much the entirety of the American political class and broader elites were absolutelly fine with Fascism as long as its effects stayed abroad, and those people were definitelly supported by most Americans, at last as long as there weren’t many coffins with Americans returning home - the other poster is totally correct in being angry at this).
And don’t get me started on how a huge slice of the American middle-class was alright with the total crash of social mobility since the 70s and explosion of inequality as long as they “got theirs” - the bottom of the country was falling but, hey, “I’m alright Jack”.
Mind you, this is the Progressive Politics forum so hopefully there are actually more people here who have long been aware and cared about “the greatest good for the greatest number” than elsewhere (so, leftwingers in the true sense) who are the only ones IMHO that haven’t been part of at least tilling and fertilizing the political field were American Fascism grew and who are the only real vitims.
The rest were more like colaborators, or at least the kind of people the “First they came” poem talks about.
Perhaps. The majority cheered them on when when they freedoming and democratizing the rest of the world with the most obnoxious displays of patriotism and hypocrisy.
Now those same forces have turned inward and the victims are mostly people who failed to prevent this and are still failing to rise to the occasion. I don’t want them to feel comforted because they are victims. I want them goaded into fixing their shit.
So you have no clue what’s going on here. The majority have been against all this shit for decades. Shut the fuck up
That’s not remotely true; brutality against the global South has been bipartisan American tradition for a long time
That’s definitely not true. Americans even on the left never cared that much about deportations until ICE started targeting white people. Now it’s all hands on deck lol.
I love when people who are not American and not in tune with the average American tried to tell Americans how Americans think.
I don’t care how you feel. Your moral position is as important as a butterfly’s fart in a hurricane.
I care that you act and act effectively. I’m not seeing it. For decades your collective thumbs have been up your asses and you’re losing very badly. Save your anger for your real enemies. Fix your shit.
killermurdererWhy do you think people ran when people mentioned “la migra”? These agencies have always been abusive but people turned that fear into a joke
Why do you think people ran when people mentioned “la migra”?
Because they didn’t want to be arrested?
people turned that fear into a joke
That’s a pretty common way of coping with trauma so I’m not sure what your point is. It doesn’t lessen how fucked up it is, it just makes reality less scary so you can deal with it.
Positions of violent authority always attract a certain person. I’m sure we’ve all seen this in our lives.
I think the women warned about these types of men during me too and the black community warned us during Black Lives Matter. These types of men have always been the biggest danger to good people
They’ve identified the one from yesterday?
Only thing I’ve seen is that he was wearing a Texas patch on his back
It’s almost like they’re part of the same department & leadership corrupting everything they touch. 🤔
While US immigration policy always sucked, the recent lawless abuse of authority (murders, arresting US citizens, violating the constitution, abducting asylum seekers in court, using kids as bait) is something else.
Post needs text alternative.
Images of text break much that text alternatives do not. Losses due to image of text lacking alternative such as link:
- usability
- we can’t quote the text without pointless bullshit like retyping it or OCR
- text search is unavailable
- the system can’t
- reflow text to varied screen sizes
- vary presentation (size, contrast)
- vary modality (audio, braille)
- accessibility
- lacks semantic structure (tags for titles, heading levels, sections, paragraphs, lists, emphasis, code, links, accessibility features, etc)
- some users can’t read the image due to lack of alt text (markdown image description)
- users can’t adapt the text for dyslexia or vision impairments
- systems can’t read the text to them or send it to braille devices
- web connectivity
- we have to do failure-prone bullshit to find the original source
- we can’t explore wider context of the original message
- authenticity: we don’t know the image hasn’t been tampered
- searchability: the “text” isn’t indexable by search engine in a meaningful way
- fault tolerance: no text fallback if
- image breaks
- image host is geoblocked due to insane regulations.
Contrary to age & humble appearance, text is an advanced technology that provides all these capabilities absent from images.
- usability
More than 50 people died in ICE custody under Obama.
Last year 30 people died in ICE custody and until January 9th 4 people died. So 2026 is already at the level of Obamas average for an entire year.
Obama still wins. He deported the most immigrants of any president in history. Libs only care when Republicans do it.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/06/19/obama-trump-deportation-numbers/84257245007/
Pretty disgusting the way you’re writing off those deaths, as if it’s normal for 7 people to die every year in these facilities.
By that logic we can also write off the murder victims of ICE as just 2 people. Americans get shot every single day right?
2 WHITE people, that’s what counts for them
Yep. What a gross country.
Yes, Ice has a job to do, combat illegal immigration. Were there roving bands of ice agents attacking cities en mass during Obama? Democrats are not political fan boys like Republicans are. They are elected officials expected to do the job they are hired for in a dignified manner, unlike Republicans. Republicans get elected to elevate hate and break down discourse. And apparently overthrow democracy?!
Boooooooooootliiiiiiiiiickerrrrrrrrrrr, no one is illegal on stolen land.
Ignorant idiot or paid agitator? That’s not how the world works but it’s a beautiful dream. Maybe one day you’ll wake up?! I am not legitimizing government, just saying government is going to government, and there’s a few ways to go about it. This right now is one of them but it’s not a very good one for anyone but those at the very very top. That’s a shitty way to run a country, even if the land was stolen in the first place. Conquest has existed since time immemorial, get with the program.
I love cashing my checks from
Russia? Venezuela? China?
Slavery and pederasty have also existed since time immemorial. Those are also bad things. Just like stealing land. Get with the program. Or don’t, and humanity will evolve past you. America is an illegitimate nation based on stolen land and slavery.
How does one just steal land? I’ve heard of adverse possession, and that’s legal all over the world to various degrees.
I think the word you want is conquer, though. That’s a debt typically paid in blood.
Cheers.
deleted by creator
LOL ‘conquer’ and ‘paid in blood’
That is pompous nonsense and totally not applicable.
There wasn’t a great battle heroically fought between armies where the victor takes the land.
No, it was vast empty land where you could encounter some peaceful indians now and then.
americans just put a fence up and called it theirs, nothing was conquered.
Lying to the natives and slaughtering them with superior weapons doesn’t count.
The same cowardly way the US fights now, bombing defenseless brown people from a distance and then walk in to plunder it.
The John Wayne heroic fights were just as much BS as the Iraq, Afghanistan propaganda movies now.
The US is a nation of thieves, and worse mass-murderers.
CheersUnfortunately, if it works it works. There was no great battle, correct, but if there was it would not have gone well for the original inhabitants, for the colonists had superior weaponry and tactics. They were able to just take the land because no one stopped them, like Trump today. He is getting away with it because no one is stopping him.
What gave them the right anyways, first come first serve? Well then it was first take, first claim, because the concept of owning land was foreign to a nomadic people that made their homes all over their regions. They migrated with the herds and with the weather following food and generational wisdom. Colonists came from the land of castles and lines in the sand, and this was all free real estate to them. We can rehash the past all day, where does it end because all lands today across the globe once belonged to different people’s than the current “owners”? I don’t know the answer to that, nor does anyone. Where does it start, where does it stop?
lmao, it was “dignified” when Obama deported 3.1 million immigrants 🤣
Americans are getting exactly what they deserve right now, and you’ve proved it.
I’m glad you think that, because I’m Canadian and you don’t know a thing about nothing. Oooh large number bad, small number good. There is professional, and there is the mobs you have ransacking cities under federal guise currently taking place. Obama was so bad you can’t stop talking about him, 4 presidencies ago. He only improved the economy better than anyone in the decades fore or since and installed a healthcare system that allowed millions more Americans to get the care they needed at more reasonable prices. Dems are just as fucked and compromised as the Repugnants, but at least they appeared to be doing good for their citizens. Not much you can say about that towards Cheeto Mussolini.
Ohhhhohoho. Mushi mushi. Liberals don’t fanboy over politicians, we try to keep them accountable.
The contexts of the deportations matter.
I think deporting to foreign prisons in nations that have nothing to do with country of origin is new, and more cruel. Ignoring need for asylum too. Returning an undocumented immigrant that came from Mexico that ‘just’ came to get better pay to go back and walk free in Mexico is a whole lot of difference.
Biden did waaay worse
Yea we bitched about him too. Unlike you cult followers.
“Everyone who criticizes a Democrat must support Trump” and 10 other Blue MAGA Braindead Classics.
And double the deportations of Trump 1, still way less than Genocide Joe.
That whole country is rotten from top to bottomPoint being? The post is about the agency being rotten yes.
The rot has always been here. Today its coming to the surface.
It hits a little different when Trump, Vance, and Noem are telling these agents that they have ABSOLUTE immunity from prosecution.
