To put it in perspective: the USA has it (but dormant as it was last used in the 60s) now, instead part of an automatic register. I’ve heard that last year Germany for example proposed to impose a mandatory, volunteer-focused military service model on boosting defense against threats like Russia but would you really enlist in the German Army (Bundeswehr) or refuse instead of adhereing to politicians interests?
I’ve heard a similar thing in France with them introducing a new voluntary 10-month military service program for 18-19 year olds starting this summer 2026, but would guys there be willing to enlist or outright refuse? What ever the case is, would guys in Europe either accept voluntary military service imposed by their nation or refuse to enlist as they know that politicians are the ones who instigate wars in the first place?
For EU nations that still have the draft enforced (mandatory conscription): what happens if guys refuse it? Do they end up in jail? In that case, would you rather be imprisoned for refusing or comply? I know that some countries have alternative service (civic) rather than conventional military service, but what happens if the individual refuses either? I mean, is it a criminal offense for simply refusing conscription?
I’m quite glad to see that most of the answers are positive here. It used to be the other way around, of course this thread is not representative of the whole Europe, but anyways…
I’m a Finn, so I went. My plan was to do the minimum and get the hell out of there. But after 6 weeks I liked the guys in my group, I actually enjoyed having to actually do something different for a change, not just sit at the computer or go to band practice/gigs. So when the 8 week starting period ended and it became time to choose what you want to “specialize” in, I checked the boxes for NCO and officer training. Didn’t get to go for the officer training but got to go to be a NCO. I was in the artillery. My job was to figure out where we were and which direction we were pointing. So I learned a lot of stuff about maps, that was fun because I love maps. I also learned how to take the position and direction from the moon and stars, that was fun because I love stars and space shit. I learned a bunch of other skills as well. If I were a dictator, I’d force everyone to go, at least for 5-6 months. You learn skills that you might not need, sure, but you also learn stuff that you didn’t know you needed.
Over the years I’ve heard people say “I wouldn’t go because my country is not worth fighting for.” I would understand that if you are from russia or some such place. But so many Germans have said it to me and I’m just baffled by that. Like okay, I get it, the government is shit. But in a war, you are not defending just the government, you are defending your family, friends, your house, the park you walk through, the way you live, the way your neighbor lives. Are those not worth defending? I’m fine if you are a pacifist and wont take up arms, thats fine. But if you say your country is not worth defending and you live in Europe, thats just ridiculous.
I’m a misanthrope and I hate most people, but if someone tries to come to my yard and start some shit, I’m gonna go fight, out of spite, if not for anything else. I want to hate people in my own terms, I want to tell people to fuck off in Finnish in Finland. Not in russia.
Well, I have a lot of thoughts about your text. I’ve been a conscript in the German military around 2007. It was a fascist infested environment back then, it is worse today. A lot of officers openly revered the Wehrmacht, one officer candidate called another conscript “you jewish pig” and so on and so forth. So, there’s that. But the most thoughts I had about “fighting for something”, so let’s go through it:
OK, so I fight at the front while maybe they are bombed at home. I’d rather use my skills to take the Balkan route the other way around with them to safety
I don’t have a house, probably never will own one, cannot afford. I would be defending the house of my landlord who owns 6 houses. I don’t see the need.
It is a nice park, but the playgrounds for my children are broken, as “we don’t have the money to fix them”. Yeah, right, maybe ask my landlord about where that money is. The austerity kills everything beautiful in the cities, but apparently “there’s no alternative”. So in five years time the park is not worth defending anymore.
You mean slaving in a soulless office for scraps, that will never buy me a home (see above), while politicians tell me “you need to work more for your country, oh, btw, we cannot afford social security and healthcare anymore ¯\_(ツ)_/¯” All the while my kids go crazy with all the pressure and constant crisis around them.
Not gonna defend that asshole. He wants to ban gay marriage, deport brown people and thinks renewable energy will, idk, kill him or something.
I mean, yeah, it’s oc very cynical, but that is the gist of it.
When the Ukraine war started, I made a plans. If russia would have attacked us, I made a plan for my (now ex) German girlfriend to join my parents and for them to go to my sisters house in the north west of the country and from there over to Sweden, from there possibly back to Germany or just stay in Sweden. I would have gone to the front lines while they do that.
So instead of paying rent, you’d rather have your house bombed to the ground? Seems a bit weird but okay…
So the better option is to let a russian tank roll over the remains of the park and maybe set up a air defense system there?
“Things are bad now so I’m fine with them getting horribly bad. I work in a horrible job so I’m okay if bombs start raining on peoples houses.”
“My neighbor is a bigoted arsehole, so I’m fine with the whole neighborhood being razed to the ground”
Might be cynical but that’s how I hear what you are saying.
“I am not willing to fight and die for the stuff I don’t find that good and rather flee”
is very different from
“I find it better if everything and everybody burns”
like you interpreted what I wrote.
Well that’s what it sounds like to me. You’d rather let the pan fire get out of hand, run outside and hope the fire department gets there in time, rather than covering the pot with a fire blanket or a lid.
Seems like I didn’t finish my thought there, I was in the middle of only my second cup of morning coffee, sorry for being a bit unclear!
But yes, I would include the US in “russia or some such place.” I would argue that the US has not fought a defensive war since 1945. So I would exclude them from the “defending your country” thing. If you join the US armed forces, you are not going to defend your country, if anything, you are making the world more dangerous for your fellow countrymenwomen.
So if you are a American, I probably agree with any and all reasons to not join the military. But thats also why I included the bit about “if you are European” in my original post.
I’m not sure about Finland or the EU, but often or not the US one involves the MIC (sotateollinen kompleksi) in which is the relationship between defense companies and the government, in a business sense - they profit from war via the arms trade as weapons are used in wars made by those companies.
Yes, another good reason for not dying for the benefit of the US corporate world.
Does Finland have a MIC? (And yes, the US shouldn’t be considered a country, more like a corporation).
We do have Patria and sako, patria mainly produces versatile armoured vehicles to be used as apcs/mounted with weapon systems they also produce mortar systems and some other things, Sako produces small arms
We do. Patria and Sako probably the biggest ones.