• Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    16 小时前

    Do you think these people voted for Putin? This is the equivalent of pretending random Americans deserve high gas prices because they voted for 1 of 2 parties who gave Israel unlimited support.

    People will say that Putin didn’t win an election, then say that his citizens also madly agree with him on everything. It’s impossible for both. If the man rigs elections, he’s not popular. If the citizens love him, he doesn’t need to rig them.

    Really weird that people have such conflicting ideas about such a vile monster.

    • Maeve@kbin.earth
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      2 小时前

      People will say that Putin didn’t win an election, then say that his citizens also madly agree with him on everything. It’s impossible for both. If the man rigs elections, he’s not popular. If the citizens love him, he doesn’t need to rig them.

      I’m really surprised to see this take from you. Have you considered that perhaps he was unpopular until he wanted to help Russians in Donetsk and Crimea, and the war boosted his popularity?

      Really weird that people have such conflicting ideas about such a vile monster.

      I mean, he’s a liberal now, and yet he’s still scapegoated for Western failures. Why do you consider him “a vile monster?” Is he as vile as Western leaders?

    • Tim@lemmy.snowgoons.ro
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      13 小时前

      Genuinely, visit Russia. Spend a bit of time in bith the Potemkim cities (Moscow, St Pete) and the 3rd world beyond them (every other Russian city.)

      The level of unhinged, blind faith in whatever bullahit is fed to them is off the charts. As far as they are concerned the west has always wanted to destroy Russia and they have always been at war, physically and culturally.

      It requires no doublethink or conflicting viewpoint whatsoever to think Russian elections are neither free nor fair, but that the majority of the Russian people are solidly behind what Putin does anyway.

      • Maeve@kbin.earth
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        2 小时前

        As far as they are concerned the west has always wanted to destroy Russia and they have always been at war, physically and culturally.

        This is true, since the uprising against the Romanovs.

        It requires no doublethink or conflicting viewpoint whatsoever to think Russian elections are neither free nor fair,

        Yes it does.

        the Russian people are solidly behind what Putin does anyway.

        They are now.

      • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech
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        9 小时前

        Which is so sad because since they basically put themselves into that state. Fear is the biggest political motivator. Fear of the west has been keeping them going, when I doubt anyone would care what they do at all. It’s all being fed to them

        • Tim@lemmy.snowgoons.ro
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          8 小时前

          Indeed. I was in Kirov once, visiting a (then) friend, and ended up in conversation with the sterotypical Russian street drunk - it was all friendly enough, and he was quite excited never having met someone who spoke English before, so we had a perfectly civil conversation between my poor Russian and my friend translating. Then at the end he asked one thing I didn’t really understand, and my friend didn’t want to translate. Eventually I pushed her into it - it turned out his final question, quite seriously, after a perfectly civil conversation, was “why are you an enemy of the Russian people?”

          Said former friend is former because later I was in Kharkhiv when the Russians invaded in 2014. At that time there were plenty of little green men causing trouble (some wanted to lynch me as a NATO spy,) so when my friend contacted me to tell me I had to get out to stay safe I thought this was admirably world-wise for a Russian. I explained that it was OK, we used VK and Facebook to know where the Russians were causing trouble and I was taking care… And she was “no, no, the Ukrainian government is taking Russian speakers and putting them in concentration camps.” (Bear in mind that at this time I’d literally never met anyone in (as it was universally known then) Kharkhov who could speak a word of Ukrainian, so that would have meant rounding up the entire population, but anyway…)

          I explained that I was literally standing there, and could swear nothing of the sort was happening… But she wouldn’t have it. It was more comfortable for her to believe the lies on Russian TV than a friend of several years.

          Honestly, the Russian people are a lost cause.

          • Tuuktuuk@nord.pub
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            6 小时前

            Same with me. I had lived 2 months in Ukraine in 2015 when I hitchhiked several thousand kilometres in the Russia. And every driver I talked anything about Ukraine was telling me how the roads are full of bandits now and how I was lucky to make it out of Ukraine alive. And then all these same stories about Russian-speakers being in danger there. I told them that I ws living together with a Russian-speaking Ukrainian, that in the capital 70 % of people speak Russian as their main everyday language, that almost all of my friends in Ukraine speak Russian as their mother tongue, and that none of my friends had never encountered what I was now being told about.

            And their reaction: “They only showed you in Ukraine what they wanted you to see”. No amount of “hey, I’ve been walking the streets completely alone, going to various parts of the city. Plus, my girlfriend would have no reason to lie to me about something like this.”
            The reply was always some form of “still, they clearly did not show you everything.” And then to my “How did they manage to hide that stuff from me?” they said “I don’t know.”

            Again, zero percent of drivers I talked with said anything deviating from the above. I soon learned to avoid talking about Ukraine, and instead made haste to get the hell out of the Russia, as there was nothing I could do to help those people, and speaking up agitated them in a manner that did not feel very safe as a hitchhiker. Kazakhstan was much better.

            • Tim@lemmy.snowgoons.ro
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              6 小时前

              Yeah, I can totally believe it. Genuinely heartbreaking - for a while Russia felt like it was slowly heading in the right direction as well, and I’m glad in that brief window I got to visit and experience the place, but after 2014 it all just fell apart and they lurched into reverse.

              Never been to Kazakhstan (hope to), but I believe you - I found people in Kyrgyzstan to be by contrast some of the friendliest and kindest in the world. Never felt uncomfortable hitching or travelling by marshrutka there, and had one of the most memorable meals of my life (beshbarmak, served to the honoured guest as a full, boiled sheep’s head with the top cut off…) with a family there.

              Looking at the world today, and the barriers that fell during my lifetime being put back up just because three limp-dicked octogenarians think the whole planet should be carved up between them… It’s devastating.

          • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech
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            8 小时前

            Which makes me sad, I find their culture really interesting, and I would love to visit, meet them and have a drink, but because of exactly that I’m very hesitant to do so.

            • Tuuktuuk@nord.pub
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              6 小时前

              Most of Russian culture is “borrowed” from other cultures. If you visit Ukraine, Georgia and Kazakhstan, you’ll catch all that you fear you might be missing by not visiting the authoritarian hellhole.