The conversations are amazing
There’s a bunch of Chinese posts asking if the stuff about school shootings, fires, homelessness are exaggerated propaganda only to be told otherwise. It’s both hilarious and sad.
People of the US and China are both unsure of what to believe about the other, because both are so propagandized lol
Who told you that the people of China are propagandized, especially to hate other countries and peoples as much as the US does?
Woah I never recognized your username in the wild before. Thanks for giving us Lemmy. Huge fan.
Friends of mine who have moved away from China. One of them had police at their door in China for social media posts that were friendly to Uyghurs (not even anything to do with the genocide, just general friendliness as a “we’re all Chinese” kind of message). Being taken to police stations for even slightly questioning the state narrative is terrifying.
Source: I heard it in a dream
Source: a friend of mine personally telling me what happened the last time he was in mainland China.
Zero possibility that this friend lied?
Some people love to lie especially if it gets a rise out of people. “Defectors” including the likes of Yeonmi Park from the DPRK also are financially incentivised to lie. I know people that lie about shit in the UK to make things sound worse than it is, and they will swear up and down it’s true after being called out on it.
Their access to news is controlled and for some topics all available news is what we’d call propaganda. Particularly anything about Japan or the Taiwan issue. Most people I know there realize this to an extent but without any other information do still believe the core idea even if skeptical of details.
But at the same time I’d argue there’s no such thing as a population that’s not propagandized. In the US the big news corporations only will present views favorable to their profitability and continued growth. Sure they disagree with eachother, but it’s still always a pro-business view. State news from Russia is (I’d argue rightly) not available on many US platforms to discourage it’s influence for example.
The US does NOT have a free press and is not at all interested in freedom and free speech. Notice that there are no socialists or leftists of any kind on any news channel or in political leadership positions.
This is just untrue. There is plenty of legal press in the US of any persuasion, from anarchist to fascist.
The major US news outlets are in bed with capitalists because that’s where the money is, but there are lots of smaller outlets with other views. In China all news outlets kowtow to the government because anything else is illegal.
Mostly agree with this take. I just wanted to add some nuance. I was talking to a friend about Gaza/Israel-protests in my country and said that the media doesn’t show everything. He then told a story about the protests that was supposedly not covered in the media. However, I had literally just read about that story in my newspaper.
Point is, there is some freedom of press (at least in my country) and the press is fairly pluralistic. However, to really find out what’s going on you need to read i.) several sources, and ii.) continue to focus on events after journalists took the effort to dig down. That’s a big ask for many people. And the stories that come out first tend to be most biased.
In China all news outlets kowtow to the government because anything else is illegal.
This is what our media tell us about their media. In every country the media kowtow to the government to some extent, but I’m not sure to exactly what extent they actually do in China, and I’m not going to take our media’s word for what that extent is.
If you do not know the extent of pressure asserted on Chinese media that is willful ignorance.
Of course “our media” (whatever you mean by that) is the only media that can report on it as Chinese media is heavily censored.
If you want to know the extent the information easy to find.
Here’s some of what Reporters Without Borders have to say
“The People’s Republic of China (PRC) is the world’s largest prison for journalists, and its regime conducts a campaign of repression against journalism and the right to information worldwide.”
“The Propaganda Department of the Chinese Communist Party sends a detailed notice to all media every day that includes editorial guidelines and censored topics.”
“Independent journalists and bloggers who dare to report “sensitive” information are often placed under surveillance, harassed, detained, and, in some cases, tortured.”
Source: https://rsf.org/en/country/china
This is from The Committee to Protect Journalists
“China has long ranked as one of the world’s worst jailers of journalists. Censorship makes the exact number of journalists jailed there notoriously difficult to determine, but Beijing’s media crackdown has widened in recent years”
Here’s Amnesty International
“Chinese authorities continued to severely curtail rights to freedoms of expression, association and peaceful assembly, including through the abusive application of laws often under the pretext of preserving national security.”
Source: https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/asia-and-the-pacific/east-asia/china/report-china/
Scroll down, addressed this three times in this thread already.
You mean how both China, and the US propagandize their citizens? Yeah, I’m fully aware of that already. All states will do it, as a system of control over the working class, in order to continue to exploit them.
I mean, if controlling the people wasn’t the goal, whats the purpose of the oppression of a state?
School shootings is something uniquely american. Even México doesn’t have them and we have a decent amount of narcojuniors (rich sons of drug dealers) that would have plenty access to guns, the only time i remember a school shooting happening it was in a private school in Monterrey like 7 years ago, which is pretty much the most americanized part of México.
I’m reminded of that ex Soviet joke about how they always knew the government was lying about their own countries but were shocked to learn it was telling the truth about america
If banning tik tok ends up galvanizing demand for healthcare reform I’m going to laugh my ass off
Good comrades like Lady Izdihar are taking off in a big way, might help radicalize a lot of people towards Marxism even.
Rednote’s algorithm seems very receptive to communist content, at least compared to what I’m used to. Hope it stays that way.
Me too!
Circle jerking about China is as ridiculous as circle jerking about the US. We’ve been here before with US vs USSR, but this time everyone has a megaphone and an IQ that can be measured with a ruler.
I mean isn’t this more "circle jerking " about dismantling state propaganda? Interacting with those you were told are your enemy?
Besides, people should always celebrate the positives, and look towards them as something that is possible in their country too.
And as an fyi: when we were here before, the workers revolution in Russia was new. The achievements were so profound that workers in North America began demanding similar concessions from our governments. There was a real threat of overthrowing the existing power structures. And what happened? Weekends, literacy, healthcare, just generally improved living conditions. To dismiss cultural exchange as circle jerking is to ignore history and the power that comes with knowing things are better elsewhere, and that you can have that too.
Fuck yeah
You keep on coping there little buddy. What’s happening is that regular people from both countries are now talking directly to each other, and finding out what life is actually like.
Uhhh, not exactly regular people. From what I’ve seen from the Rednote, at least my feed is wealthy upper-middle or upper class, while the Americans are from low to middle class.
not what I see in my feed, might depend on the interests you picked and whom you followed, etc
That’s because via GDP those two are at the same level even though they are different levels in their own country.
Eh, there’s truth and lies on both sides. Coming from someone that lived in china for 4 years and was able to engage with Chinese primary news sources. But basic healthcare in china is faster and cheaper, but then again I went to get a wart removed and they prescribed me acorn paste that accelerated the growth of the wart. So win some lose some.
Everyone pretending Europe doesn’t exist? Most countries have most healthcare for “free” (mandatory healthcare taxes).
The kinda people joining Rednote right now are not the same kinda people who know alot about geopolitics, or honestly anything beyond their personal bubble. Yeah, they’re just gonna keep pretending Europe doesn’t exist.
Eh… as someone living in western Europe, I can’t say it’s free. I would say that it’s subsidized at most. We still have to pay a part of our healthcare, we can get a private health insurance to complete the government coverage, but it’s still not enough to cover all of it.
Mental health isn’t covered at all, ophtalmology barely (still gotta pay 200€ for a pair of glasses, after public + private coverage), dental only the very basic is covered…
Lmao
It’s honestly very wholesome to see this kind of interaction. On top of cute moments like Chinese users telling the new US users that they are their “spies,” seeing a lot of blatant myth dispelling surrounding the PRC is great to help tear down the Red Scare.
I was told that I was a spy in RL. Why would a European person learn Chinese? Clearly spy.
My own father asked me unironically if I was a “Chinese sympathizer” over dinner last night, and that was not the end of it.
Oh interesting! But very different experience, I was called a spy by Chinese people.
Edit: nevermind, he is just being rude.
I’m getting tired of all this propaganda… I honestly may leave Lemmy if this keeps up.
“Everything” we’ve heard about China is a lie? Are you people for fucking real?
I didn’t think child labor still existed in China, just harsh labor conditions and low pay.
China’s government’s strict control of the media did, however, lead to me not questioning the social credit score thing.
Pretty naive to think that child labor dosen’t exists in China tbh. Maybe not at the scale of child factory workers that some western media like to depict, but at a smaller scale, in farming, family owned business and small isolated factories.
China is fucking rich dude.
So is the US, and we still have farms, small businesses, and small factories
Same.
Not hard to believe when there’s camps for uyghurs.
Happy to be wrong.
I maintain this, but other comrades like @davel and @yogthos keep better megathreads about this topic.
https://dessalines.github.io/essays/socialism_faq.html#whats-going-on-with-the-uyghurs
This megathread is garbage, it lists quora and twitter threads as sources.
Twitter and quora are not sources lol. They’re platforms ppl use, and their posts should be measured by their merits, not where it’s posted.
Purchasing power is rising dramatically, labor conditions as well.
996 sounds like amazing labour conditions
Literally illegal in China
Literally allowed in practice
No actually, you’re just a racist making assumptions.
Not necessarily. You don’t know why they’re making that claim.
I live in Korea, where the letter of the labor laws are quite strong. However, they’re not enforced. Workers don’t sue companies because they’re either afraid to rock the boat due to cultural norms or afraid they will develop a reputation and become unhirable.
Korea and China are very distinct cultures, but there are key facets that are common between them. Confucian (or at least neo-Confucian in Korea) values prioritize maintaining the peace and deferring to authority. This is one of several factors that causes Koreans to endure intense working hours, and I’m more willing to believe Chinese folks overwork a lot due to the few shared values.
People are people no matter where they live, which also means you can’t trust any government anywhere. Propaganda is powerful.
The idea of a social credit score has always been hilarious to me, like yo bros we have credit scores over here and they legitimately fuck us over since you need good credit to do alot of things like renting a place to live.
As a civ player, I know a cultural victory when I see one.
Lol people actually believed that social credit score bullshit?
But… social credit literally is real… There are government legislations on this. It is not a conspiracy theory.
On the other hand Western media definitely has exaggerated and demonized it a lot. The social credit is basically your credit score, but it is more expansive and uses information some might see as encroaching on their personal privacy and freedoms.
I still don’t believe the TEMU bit though
I like how one person said they don’t use child labour because they are inefficient. If they were efficient though …
I totally believe child labour is inefficient.
I also believe it’s cheap and capitalism doesn’t care.
picture 2: not real and technically imposible to do that cause we have 1.4 billion people
This makes me imagine how social credit score department people hands look like if social credit score is real
Don’t they have computers and mass surveillance?
Wait, China’s not a dystopian nightmare?
I imagine it could be if you were a minority or a political dissident.
The fact that so many people went through sexual and gender self discovery on Tiktock, but such things are discouraged by the government in China says a lot that makes me uncomfortable.
Not being able to openly criticise the government and its policies also doesn’t sit well with me.
It’s not my government though, so that’s where my criticism ends. If that’s what the majority of people want, that’s just democracy by another avenue. So long as people are allowed to leave if they choose, then that’s fine.
It isn’t if you are privileged, the same as the US
China is responsible for most of the world’s reduction in poverty in the 30 years. If you exclude China, world poverty is increasing.
