• kreskin@lemmy.world
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    2 hours ago

    or a do-nothing centrist who’d rather let the fascists win in order to keep the left down, right?

    But dont forget to vote blue no matter who, leftists!

  • WizardofFrobozz@lemmy.ca
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    4 hours ago

    A bullshit false equivalence that only serves to amplify alt-right messaging? Yeah, I’d downvote that garbage, too.

  • Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    6 hours ago

    That’s lemmygrad (THE tankie instance, with Hexbear), not lemmy.ml (the dev’s instance). Please do not conflate them together. And I say this as a dbzero user.

  • IndustryStandard@lemmy.world
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    7 hours ago

    You went into a community which defines itself as Tankies, compared them to Fascists, and now you come here whining about it?

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    4 hours ago

    🤦‍♂️ Obviously never been involved in any left wing activism, because oh boy oh boy you’d quickly realise just how authoritarian our liberal democracies are.

  • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
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    7 hours ago

    I’ll downvote that too.

    It seems to #bothsides an issue via a lot of hyperbole, and risks straw-manning one side just for a favourable comparison.

    I don’t colour myself a tankie, but I do live in a more socialist country than America - low bar, such as it is. I sense I’m not in a position to properly understand how your argument can make sense, but the kneejerk comparison I feel needs some explanation before just throwing that smelly fish out there.

    It’s not cut-and-dried, but presented as such. It’s not helpful and relevant by itself. Thus, downvote.

  • FosterMolasses@leminal.space
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    7 hours ago

    I swear, for the people who’ve yet to experience getting caught in .ml crossfire these constant stories verge on some Jason Voorhees Boogieman shit for me ahaha

    Does everyone who finds themselves on lemmygrad just show up to start debates? I’ve never just accidentally wandered into an .ml instance and then felt compelled to start throwing hands about Tiananmen Square lol

    This stuff has got to be some of my all time favorite Lemmy lore and I look forward to the day I find a reason to be banned from there too.

  • qarbone@lemmy.world
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    8 hours ago

    While I don’t disagree with you, if you didn’t subscribe to the fact that authoritarians have coopted far left movements to consolidate power, it does look like you are doing a false equivalency to make a “both sides” argument. And “both sides” arguments frequently get downvoted.

  • flabberjabber@lemmy.world
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    10 hours ago

    Totes.

    I was banned from socialism on Lemmy.ml the other day.

    For providing a detailed post with scientific references demonstrating how the Tibetan language is disappearing (and how the infographic posted was likely propaganda/misinformation).

    I had many users respond calling me slurs and none really responding to the body of my post in any way. Then, instead of moderating the bullying, the mod called me a shithead, provided his own references and banned me to prevent me from responding.

    The kicker? The references he linked to supported exactly what I was saying! He hadn’t read them.

    Also funnily, the mod log states that I infringed “Rule 1”. I checked. Socialism’s rules are still TBD (after 7 years).

    • Aniki@feddit.org
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      5 hours ago

      yeah the typical reason for getting banned is “Rule 1 & 2”, in other words, having an opinion that a mod doesn’t like.

    • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world
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      7 hours ago

      welcome to the club.

      don’t worry, they will follow you around for awhile, because they have nothing better to do than harass well-intentioned people.

      my favorite is when they tell you their sources from state operated media are the truth…

    • Edie [it/it/its/its/itself, she/her/her/hers/herself]@lemmy.ml
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      6 hours ago

      There are instance wide rules. It wasn’t clarified, although it should have been, that it was that.

      1. No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia. Code of Conduct.

      I’ll let QinShiHuangsShlong point out the problem with your comment

      In other words, in all likelihood, waves at the Chinese intelligence system running this thread.

      Why do you people always feel the need to add some dehumanising shit like this at the end of your replies.

      “Oh you don’t hate China you must be a bot, shill, intelligence officer, brainwashed etc etc.”

      You suck.

      Also only that one bad comment (calling you a shithead) was made, and not by a moderator. The comments calling you slurs you are talking about do not exist.

      Edit: It seems that my understanding of the word slur may have been slightly incorrect. Leaning much more to the “An extremely offensive and socially unacceptable term targeted at a group of people (such as an ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc.).” definition and not just any insult or slight. In which case I was wrong.

      • flabberjabber@lemmy.world
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        6 hours ago

        Wow, I see you following my posts. That’s a bit creepy. But I’ll play.

        Edit: Liberal is a derogatory term used by anti-capitalist and pro authoritarian socialist/communist supporters to other the pro capitalist or pro democracy group and create an “outgroup”. It is comparable to tankie in its use.

        Since when is calling out a particular nation’s intelligence apparatus racism? In fact I criticised the American government in the paragraph previously. You’ve cut out context to make your actions seem a little more reasonable. Here’s that context:

        Many of these same allegations can be levied at governments such as the Americans; but to differing proportions and often historical rather than modern contexted. However, rather than one being preferred, it is my opinion that any immoral and unethical system of government does not deserve the support of the people. The fact that you’re trying to garner support for just another form of tyranny is at the least concerning and at the most likely duplicitous and an attempt at manipulation from said government itself.

        I see many users on lemmy.ml doing exactly this all the time, but in reverse and being more direct in their description. Usually some kind of combination of “western imperialist country’s liberal intelligence”.

        It is not by any measure racism. It’s criticism of a form of government.

        Which leads me to my next question: why is it a forbidden topic to talk about the activities of a very powerful and despotic government like the CCP, but in the same breath permitted to fling similar criticism at other countries? I had a user assume I was American in that thread and criticise me based upon it. Ironically I am not. Why was this not also moderated?

        Why was I banned for that criticism, and yet the user that called me a shithead (a direct slur) was not?

        The more you analyse the actions of any moderator or most lemmy.ml users, the more their hypocracy becomes apparent.

        Free speech for me, but not for thee.

        Most of my post was a scientific discussion on the loss of the Tibetan language, and proved through academic pieces of research the misinformation/propaganda present in the OP’s infographic.

        I think it is much more likely given the apparent hypocracy and duplicity evident in your actions as moderator and my experience with lemmy.ml as a whole, and the experience of the users in this thread which are so numerous, that this was a deliberate burying of that information.

        But that’s just my opinion, I have no proof and can’t accept any from you or your team because of the above bad faith that has already been made apparent.

        By the way, liberal is a slur used in the same manner as tankie, but by authoritarian communists/socialists. I’m surprised as a moderator of lemmy.ml you’re unaware of this fact.

        For clarity’s sake, here’s that original post so that all those that read this can have full context:

        spoiler

        Can we have some academic references for your claims OP?

        Here are mine before you ask:

        Mandarin is now the primary medium of instruction/education for approximately 95% of schools in Tibetan areas, including kindergartens. We have a large body of verified statistics and independent institutions that show this clearly: https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/12/18/7267 https://www.hrw.org/report/2020/03/05/chinas-bilingual-education-policy-tibet/tibetan-medium-schooling-under-threat https://www.right-to-education.org/resource/chinas-bilingual-education-policy-tibet-tibetan-medium-schooling-under-threat

        Tibetan educator and researcher Gyal Lo projected that up to 70% of Tibetans in China may lose the ability to speak their mother tongue by 2030 if current trends continue. This projection is supported by a wealth of academic studies: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/china-quarterly/article/abs/tibets-invisible-languages-and-chinas-language-endangerment-crisis-lessons-from-the-gochang-language-of-western-sichuan/994D3B3CFDFEA96C30F022369F1DB1FD https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29033477/ https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324778661_Tibet's_Minority_Languages_Diversity_and_endangerment

        Also, in terms of the ongoing theme you’re engendering, the idea that Tibetans do not experience oppression or persecution, here’s a summary of most of the ways in which that provably isn’t true.

        I haven’t referenced these as it would take quite a bit of time; but much of it is well documented and you’re welcome to conduct a literature search if you’d like:

        -military suppression of uprisings, -political imprisonment, -torture and deaths in custody, -restrictions on religion, -interference in Buddhist institutions, -suppression of Tibetan language, -cultural assimilation policies, -mass surveillance, -censorship and speech restrictions, -forced relocation of nomads, -environmental displacement, -economic discrimination allegations, -coercive labor allegations, -restrictions on travel and foreign access.

        Many of these same allegations can be levied at governments such as the Americans; but to differing proportions and often historical rather than modern contexted. However, rather than one being preferred, it is my opinion that any immoral and unethical system of government does not deserve the support of the people. The fact that you’re trying to garner support for just another form of tyranny is at the least concerning and at the most likely duplicitous and an attempt at manipulation from said government itself.

        In other words, in all likelihood, waves at the Chinese intelligence system running this thread.

        • Edie [it/it/its/its/itself, she/her/her/hers/herself]@lemmy.ml
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          7 hours ago

          Wow, I see you following my posts

          How I have followed you without opening you user page, searching for you, or using the api to get information on you I have no idea. If you can tell me so I can better understand I would be interested.

          Take the rest up with an admin of lemmy.ml, or the moderator of the comm you were banned from.

          • flabberjabber@lemmy.world
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            7 hours ago

            As a moderator of communities on lemmy.ml you have come here unprompted in defense of the indefensible actions of other moderators on Lemmy.ml.

            Yet upon explaining how in detail this hypocrisy exists, your response is to verbally shrug as though it’s nothing to do with you and you won’t pass judgement.

            Hilarious.

              • flabberjabber@lemmy.world
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                6 hours ago

                I made a mistake in not doing my homework on you. Whoopsie, you got me!

                That completely disregards every point I’ve made in this thread /s

                I still expect you to answer my questions even though you’re not the moderator who banned me. You’re a moderator on Lemmy.ml but not the one who banned me, most likely an associate of theirs, but I have no proof of that.

                You came here unprompted to defend their actions, presented insight only the moderator who banned me would know.

                So please would you kindly answer my questions / debate the points I’m making. Thanks.

  • AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world
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    10 hours ago

    I’m banned from a bunch of random places cuz I made a joke about Jack Ma disappearing for “re-education”. Loud critic of the CCP. Goes missing unexpectedly for a bit. Returns and suddenly sings the praises of the CCP. Definitely not fishy at all and you can’t joke about it.

      • PepperoniNipple@lazysoci.al
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        1 hour ago

        And fawning over a billionaire who wanted to make even more money is not?

        Since when do we feel sympathy for billionaires like Jack Ma? Why are people angry that the CCP did the right thing? America should had done the same with Elon Musk when he did the Sieg Heil in national TV, because he not only embarrassed the entire country, he put absolutely every single American in danger now, because foreign people like me now want to see the USA be removed from the global map because they pretty much screamed to the world that they are ok with a literal Nazi having that much power and influence over you. They should have kidnapped him and “reeducated” him, but no, instead, Elon is now reeducating millions of young men through Twitter. Turning them into violent toxic bigots. He is guiding them toward their graves; and here you are, still talking shit about China the same way Trump or Lindsey Graham or most MAGA politicians do. What the fuck? At least China is not being ran by a pedophile, and they don’t have anything remotely close to a cult like MAGA. I haven’t had a single negative interaction with the Chinese people I have replied to online; they are as polite as the Japanese, but a lot less xenophobic and elitist. With Japanese people or South Koreans, once they find out I am a Mexican, some of them start treating me like I am inferior, for some reason, they say things only an American hog would. Same with South Koreans, they have some Western influence on them, and it sucks. Most of the negative interactions I have had with Chinese is always over technical/academic stuff, like being bad in a videogame, or getting a line of code wrong, they are more harsh there, but rarely racism or identity attacks.

        Jack Ma wasn’t even reeducated, he was just forced into silence because he challenged the CCP by pretty much saying “your banks are clueless, your regulators are old men, and my technology is the future” during that Shanghai Finance Summit, whatever it was. I remember Jack Ma sharing some weird ideas with Elon Musk years ago, I won’t say they are the same, but imagine if Elon Musk did something like that, implying he should become the head of the future. You’d want that? Wouldn’t you wish your government stopped him too? Or what? Do you trust Elon Musk? Do you love him? Do you think he’s sexy every time he speaks like a shy kid who just shat his pants?

        It’s so weird that that’s the only thing leftists and republicans agree with with the same passion: Hating China. It used to be Russia too, but it only took a few weeks to change that. Don’t you find that weird?

        I wonder how will Americans ever deal with the increasing amount of racists and MAGAs that are breeding in their country without ever resorting to authoritative policies that will make them look worse than China. I want to believe a strong reason China is the way it is is because of the Opioid Crisis caused by the UK and India, and the genocide caused by Japan around 1930. The way people fawn over Japan but hate China makes that propagandized bias more obvious. And I have my own criticisms about China, I wouldn’t want to live there, I still prefer Mexico, but god damn, when compared to the USA, I prefer China. Your marvel movies, TV shows and videogames like Fallout always depicted the Chinese and Russians as absolute evils, as malicious, always spying or planning something big in their heads to destroy you for the sake of it, for fun or money or power, I don’t know, but that shit is still ingrained in you.

        Btw, “just move to X country” shall never be a reply, ever. Everyone should know by now that, thanks to capitalism and the Jeffrey Epstein Class, about 80% of the entire world cannot afford to do something like that. It’s always the cheapest and most ridiculous answer I see online, to avoid facing the fact that some governments are objectively better, less evil than others, even if they all suck.

  • njm1314@lemmy.world
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    12 hours ago

    You not posting this in context makes you super untrustworthy in my book.

    • betanumerus@lemmy.ca
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      11 hours ago

      Dictatorship is by nature untrustworthy, so which one do you pick: trustworthiness or dictatorship?

      • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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        10 hours ago

        By “trustworthiness” do you mean continuing to try to vote our way into policy which benefits the American people? Because that hasn’t worked in 40+ years.

        Yeah I’ll take a “dictatorship” like China if it means we get socialized Healthcare, 25,000 miles of high speed rail, affordable housing and nationalization of corporations who have received billions if not trillions in subsidies. American “democracy” certainly hasn’t delivered on any of that.

        • teft@piefed.social
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          Yeah I’ll take a “dictatorship” like China if it means we get socialized Healthcare, 25,000 miles of high speed rail, affordable housing and nationalization of corporations who have received billions if not trillions in subsidies. American “democracy” certainly hasn’t delivered on any of that.

          Ask the Uyghurs how that’s working out for them. Anyone who thinks a fascist dictatorship doesn’t eat whoever they want is lying to themselves. If you’re not a party man (and even if you are that isn’t a bulletproof vest) you’re not going to have a life worth living.

          I bet nazi germans were cool with living in the reich, too. Just look at all those jewish companies they were given! Who wouldn’t want that. /s

          • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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            1 hour ago

            Ask the Uyghurs how that’s working out for them.

            You’re going to have to come up with a counter benefit we don’t also have under U.S. “democracy”. Unless you think there is no comparison? I’d be happy to discuss that with you.

            • teft@piefed.social
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              27 minutes ago

              Why would i engage with someone who believes china is more free than the US?

        • betanumerus@lemmy.ca
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          9 hours ago

          Then move to China, because the chances of a dictatorship running your way are next to zero. Dictatorship means no accountability, so once it’s set up, they do as they please no matter what you say.

          • zbyte64@awful.systems
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            2 hours ago

            You actually think there’s no accountability in China? My guy, they hold their politicians to a much higher bar then we do.

          • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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            9 hours ago

            Then move to China

            If I spoke mandarin fluently and had a solid support network of friends and family i would. 🤷‍♂️

            Dictatorship means no accountability, so once it’s set up, they do as they please no matter what you say.

            Show me all this accountability here in the United States. A known pedophile is in office and the previous guy in office spent four years giving a huge number of his voters the finger.

            • betanumerus@lemmy.ca
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              7 hours ago

              If it was a total dictatorship, he’d be there forever. Accountability is the elections. You have hope.

                • betanumerus@lemmy.ca
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                  7 hours ago

                  Tell you what, I’ll wait here until you find a question you actually can’t answer yourself.

            • nexguy@lemmy.world
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              8 hours ago

              You seem to like when the government heavily censors domestic media, the internet, and academic discourse, and actively suppresses political dissent, protests, or criticism of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). Movement within China is regulated. The justice system in China has a 99% conviction rate…for whichever side supports the side of the state. Mass surveillance with no legal recourse. You wouldn’t even know if you had it good or not. Unless you are fine not knowing I suppose.

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                7 hours ago

                The west also heavily censors domestic media, the internet, academic discourse, and actively suppresses political dissent and protests, etc. The critical difference is that the west does this to protect capitalists against the working classes, while China does this to suppress capitalists and protect the socialist system. The class that controls the state uses it to oppress the others.

                • nexguy@lemmy.world
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                  6 hours ago

                  Can you openly criticize the Chinese party in control? Can you protest without violent retribution?

              • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                7 hours ago

                You’re responding to my comment where I said.

                Show me all this accountability here in the United States.

                You didn’t show me where all this accountability is. Was that an oversight on your part or are you acknowledging there isn’t any?

                • nexguy@lemmy.world
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                  6 hours ago

                  Can you openly criticize the Chinese party in control? Can you protest without violent retribution?

                  You can do these things in the usa. Accountability.

                  China won’t let the full intent through. The US does. Accountability.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            9 hours ago

            From the recent Perceptions of Democracy survey:

            China is one of the more comprehensively democratic countries on the list, with some of the fewest glaring weaknesses.

                • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
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                  8 hours ago

                  (No idea what they’re trying to say tbh. Is that an edited image or… are they calling you out? Seriously unclear)

                  PODS is an opinion poll. The way you present it implies that it speaks in any way to the actual systems of government of the country in question, when that’s just straight not what it’s about:

                  […] At the same time, more respondents said their country was moving in the wrong direction. The report finds that pessimism is especially pronounced in democracies. France, Germany, Lebanon, Puerto Rico and Nigeria were among the countries where responses on national direction were most negative. China recorded the most positive responses, followed by El Salvador, Kuwait, Algeria and Belarus.

                  What the infographic you’ve posted actually shows is that Chinese citizens are among the most satisfied with their government, which is for sure something, but is decidedly not the same thing as:

                  China is one of the more comprehensively democratic countries on the list, with some of the fewest glaring weaknesses.

                • jwt@programming.dev
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                  8 hours ago

                  Thanks for the link, my point was that posting random pictures without context/methodology/sources is not very helpful.

                  So the questionnaire asks people how positive/negative they perceive the categories in their own country, I’m not really sure that methodology works very well for oppressive countries.

                • SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml
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                  3 hours ago

                  He definitely is elected, just not directly. The Chinese President is elected by The National People’s Congress. The Presidium, which is the body that presides over the NPC when the full body Is not in session, nominates one or more candidates, and then the whole NPC deliberates and votes

      • deathmetaldawgy@lemmy.ml
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        10 hours ago

        I could just as easily say “president is untrustworthy by nature” or “king”, “prime minister”, “dictator”, “state”, “soldier”, “police”, ”judge” etc. Dictatorship doesn’t automatically equal “authoritarian tankie evil communism everyone starves”

        Dictatorship by definition means the person or party that dictates. A judge is not authoritarian for providing someone a fair trial regardless of how harsh or fair they are, but they are still dictating a system or an action. So when you hear “dictatorship of the proletariat”, it literally means you and everyone else controls the law. It doesn’t mean you get to decide everything it means that democracy actually involves every single person that participates instead of being “dictated” by money.

        Every country expresses authority in some way, wether it’s USA something like Bay of Pigs, UK with their actions in India and Africa, USSR defeating Nazi armies and liberating concentration camps sometimes WITH the us and British. Technically Warsaw ghetto uprising was “authoritarian” and it was a good thing that they expressed authority on the Nazi regime.

        Just trying to provide some clarity, a lot of people in the US truly have no idea how evil our government is and what they do overseas to help maintain your lifestyle, and it barely does a good job of maintaining our lifestyle. If anything socialist policies are always provably better at building society, and even the bare minimum in the US are people like Mamdani or Walz that prove even if you enact quasi-leftist policies like healthcare you’re an evil communist who likes dictatorship. You’re falling for it but you don’t have to, if you believe in people like AOC and other “progressive” dems like Ilhan Omar in theory you should be unlearning these things you’ve been taught by the right wing American media.

        • betanumerus@lemmy.ca
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          9 hours ago

          Dictatorship means there is no accountability. They do as they please no matter what you say. They have zero reason to be trustworthy.

          • nexguy@lemmy.world
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            4 hours ago

            You are fighting against a tide of trolls or sheep. There is nothing you can do but block these people that try to rationalize away dictators.

  • Hadriscus@jlai.lu
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    11 hours ago

    The lack of context… also were you talking about China by any chance ?

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      9 hours ago

      This was the original meme:

      It doesn’t appear to be about any socialist country in particular, merely the idea of actually existing socialism. The closest would be Eastern European socialism such as the USSR, as it implies that said country is no longer socialist.