• geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
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    1 day ago

    I think for the book it’s moreso chapter 10: “demonizing the Serbs” https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Library:To_kill_a_nation/Demonizing_the_Serbs

    The propaganda campaign to demonize the Serbs began early in the decade. One of the Slovene government’s first acts after declaring independence in 1991 was to create a well-equipped media center that would distribute vivid reports about nonexistent battles, exaggerated casualty figures, and alleged Yugoslav army (Serbian) atrocities. By depicting the brief and limited conflict in the bloodiest terms imaginable, and portraying themselves as pro-West democrats struggling against Yugoslav Communist aggressors, the Slovenes hoped to marshal international support for their cause. Not long after, the Croats and Muslims did the same by conjuring up images of a dehumanized Communist Serbian threat to Europe.

    Basically the Serbs are being portrayed by Parenti as poor innocent victims of NATO, but even by just looking at the massive civilian casualty rate it’s pretty obvious that’s not going to hold. Combine that with NATO actually favoring the Serbs by blocking weapons when only the Serbs had them, and the pro-Serb resolution of the genocide, and it turns out NATO didn’t actually favor the Croats or Bosnians as like Parenti claims.

    • Maeve@kbin.earth
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      1 day ago

      Huh. I just remembered you clamming up after being presented evidence the Bolsheviks were punishing people persisting with pogroms. I see you.

          • geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
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            15 hours ago

            Did I explicitly say I didn’t want to investigate it or did I not respond to a comment? My Lemmy inbox frequently has 30+ messages from posts and occasionally I just press “read all” instead of reading everything first to clear it. If you can remind me what where this was you might be right but I don’t recall it.

            • Maeve@kbin.earth
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              14 hours ago

              It was a long time ago but I think it was probably related to the ongoing Palestinian genocide and wound back around to WW2 and the interment and mass murder of Jewish and other groups. So then back around to the Bolshevik revolution and programs. Don’t worry yourself too much over it, sometimes we both get way overinvested in internet political discussions. I still recognize the very valuable contributions you make to raising awareness and appreciate your work. I also don’t think you’re a bad person, just human like the rest of us.

              • geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
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                14 hours ago

                Thanks likewise. I might be wrong about Yugoslavia btw, I’ve read chapters of the book (and some other stuff some time ago) but and my knowledge on it isn’t that deep. I also watched the BE video and the BE video still seems to hold up, it’s not denying Parenti book but just adding additional important context. But I’ve already got enough stuff going on along with my posting so I don’t really feel like reading the entire history of the Bosnian war so if I’m wrong on this one I’ll just take the L.

                • Maeve@kbin.earth
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                  13 hours ago

                  You’re welcome and thank you. I have a deep respect for you. I could be misremembering as well, we’re human, it happens. And we both have lives outside the internet, and should be able and allowed to live them abundantly, and in peace. May it be so, forevermore.

                  I wouldn’t count it as an L, either way. While it may temporarily embarrass our egos, perhaps we learn and grow more by learning where we are mistaken, plus it helps us to stop/not lead others amiss.

                  Namaste, if you catch my drift. 🙏❤️🫂

    • Maeve@kbin.earth
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      1 day ago

      Did you really… Did you just jump around hoping to find something… anything… To confirm your bias?

      The charges of mass atrocity and genocide leveled against Belgrade will be treated in the chapters ahead.

      It is said that lies have wings while truth feebly slogs behind, destined never to catch up. This is often treated as being the inherent nature of communication. And it may sometimes be the case that truthful but mundane information cannot compete with the broad images repeatedly splashed across the media universe. But this is not sufficient explanation for the way issues are propagated in the global arena. Rather than ascribing reified, self-determining powers to concepts like truth and falsehood, we should note that the lies our leaders tell us succeed so well because they are given repeated and ubiquitous dissemination. The truth seldom catches up because those who rule nations and manage the mass communication universe have no interest in giving it equal currency.

      If millions believe the lies again and again, it is because that is all they hear. After a while, it becomes the only thing they want to hear. Truly remarkable are the people throughout the world who remonstrate and demonstrate against these “humanitarian” interventions. The broad public in the United States and other Western countries remained notably lukewarm about the air campaign against Yugoslavia. The Clinton administration seemed acutely aware of this, as manifested by its unwillingness to commit ground troops out of fear that the US public would not tolerate the loss of American lives. A war for which citizens are not willing to make any sacrifices whatsoever is not a war for which the government can claim deep public support.[7]

      Of course, Americans did not like what they heard about “genocide” and “ethnic cleansing,” but there were no signs of the jingoistic fervor that gripped many people during the Gulf War a decade earlier. If anything, there was a general feeling that they were not being told the whole story.[8] The obviously one-sided character of the air war, the fact that Yugoslavia had not invaded anyone, and the impact of the bombing upon a European civilian population contributed to a general sense of unease. Indeed, in the eleven weeks of NATO’s “mission,” support dropped from over 65 per cent to barely 50 per cent and promised to continue downward.

      State Department Counter-Terrorism Coordinator Michael Sheehan, speaking at a Briefing on the 1999 Annual “Patterns of Global Terrorism” Report, May 1 2000:

      SHEEHAN: Our definition of terrorism by the legislation is very explicit. But in general terms, in a war, if military forces are attacking each other, it’s not terrorism. But if an armed terrorist organization attacks civilian targets, that’s terrorism. So that’s generally the breakdown. Or if you attack— it’s also . . . a terrorist attack if you attack military people in barracks, such as the Khobar bombings or the Marine barracks in 1982. Those are terrorist acts. Each case is taken on a case-by-case basis.

      REPORTER: So, for example, if the United States were to drop—what do you call them?—cruise missiles on people who were in barracks or in tents, as it may be, would that be terrorism? Could that be terrorism?

      SHEEHAN: No. [laughter]

      The laughter was not included in the transcript of the briefing released by the state department, but could be heard when this segment was played on C-Span radio.

      In response, the Clinton administration, with the active complicity of the media, took every opportunity to downplay the death and destruction caused by the bombings and every opportunity to hype images of satanic Serbian atrocities. Still, the wavering support for the onslaught must have played a part in the White House’s decision to stop the bombing and settle for something less than the total occupation of Yugoslavia. This should remind us that the struggle against war and aggression begins at home. Thus it is imperative for us to make every effort to look critically at the prevailing orthodoxy, and devote ourselves to a different course.

      Basically the Serbs are being portrayed by Parenti as poor innocent victims of NATO

      He does nothing of the sort. Before reading I looked around for an audio copy Both in the book and lectures, he outright says Yugoslavia has plenty of blood blame. He suggests an honest inquiry. I’ll read the whole book before I rush to give my faulty memory version or accept a Western narrative just because some half-cocked, half-informed yt guy who threatened to help a fascist regime imprison a lib as a commie said something. And you should too.

      • geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
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        18 hours ago

        Are we talking about the Bosnian war or the Kosovo war? My comments pertain to the Bosnian war and I think your quote is talking about Kosovo.

        Also I’m not sure where the “BE is an imperialist” notion comes from. He’s quite explicitly saying that you’ll usually be on the right side of history by taking the opposite position of any Western narrative but this is one of the rare exceptions.

        • Maeve@kbin.earth
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          15 hours ago

          I think they’re related.

          I didnt say he was an imperialist. I said what I said. Frankly they’re both humans who seem to say weird things.

          • geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
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            15 hours ago

            Of course they’re related but there were real systemic atrocities committed by the Serbs against the Croats and Bosnians with NATO support of the weapons blockade and NATO then rewarded them for it with Republic Srbpska.

            Likewise NATO did Iran-Contra but that doesn’t mean they somehow support Iran. Maximizing casualties on both sides is always convenient for NATO.