- cross-posted to:
- leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- cross-posted to:
- leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/73045745
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Anything to avoid dealing with the issue.
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Patriarchy and Men
i mean that seems entirely like you do not have the same goals. you want the 3rd person (the man) to work, while the other woman (cis woman) wants to retain her workplace by pushing out competition. the workplace being “to be a woman in society”. a societal role is kinda like a workplace. and since transfem women are such efficient competition (many transfems i know are just outright more attractive than cis women, which i suspect is because they know what looks good from a male perspective?) the other woman is especially worried about being out-competed.
I was halfway to “let him cook” before I got to your own included misogyny and trans exclusion
I mean, trans and cis women aren’t in the same boat though, which is why we have white, affluent, and fascist cis women who use trans genocide rhetoric to secure their position in a patriarchal hierarchy. They understand that exclusionary definitions of womanhood is beneficial to a group of people who want to be privileged in some ways but still exclude more unprivileged groups who may want to dismantle say, racism and capitalism alongside patriarchy (as though they’re different things in any meaningful way).
Mmm, I mean, we kinda are in the same boat? Ultimately it has to be understood that no matter what media tells us, women aren’t owning the terf movement. There are terf women, to be sure; I’d argue that most self-described terfs are women. But the movement itself is upheld and propagated by men and patriarchy. Like, JK Rowling is a right fuckin cunt, but she wouldn’t have jack shit if it hadn’t been for Elon Musk boosting her, for Fox News, Daily Mail, etc boosting her, for Kier Starmer justifying her and pushing her to the press. Her power, her movements’ power, comes from capital and patriarchy granting it to advance their own interests. I wish all transphobes a merry fuck you, but the “leaders” have owners, and those owners are in that carriage.
why we have white, affluent, and fascist cis women
You can draw a different comic which depicts this, instead. The existing comic is a low-class cis women who eats up the rhetoric. Different types of people can be terrible for different reasons.
If the point is to make that woman look bad because she subscribes to the exact kind of erasure the comic does, then what is the point of the comic? These are also not different types of people…
There are a lot of white cis women who vote Republican, for example.
And who vote Democrat but subscribe to hetero patriarchal values, y’know, like the Democratic Party does. Stop trying to act like US political parties indicate some kind of oppositional politics, they differ in target demos and rhetoric almost exclusively at a federal level.
And who vote Democrat but subscribe to hetero patriarchal values, y’know, like the Democratic Party does.
You’re speaking with someone who agrees with you. I was providing a stark example that is often used - the one of cis white women voting for Trump specifically.
I’m not acting like the US political parties indicate anything besides oligarchy.
Jfc I’m so fucking done with the liberals on this site. No, you do not agree with me on something fundamental. By pointing out one party – the one that libs love because it lets them pretend they aren’t awful anymore – you are obscuring the commonality between those parties, and therefore the exact point of my comment. Just because you people want someone easy to dunk on, does not mean people who are actually critical of this system agree with you.
“Oligarchy” is such a fucking lib dogwhistle on Lemmy too. Yeah totally, its not liberalism or capitalism fundamentally, it’s an oligarchy with some especially naughty billionaires to blame, not the inevitable consequences of this system. This also isn’t the first time one of you thinks you have the right to chastise me when I’m actually challenging to your politics when you thought you were in the clear by merit of just not yelling slurs at trans women on the street.
You’re really taking that trope of leftists attacking fellow leftists real seriously, aren’t ya?
Okay TERF.
Oh jesus christ, really? Hahahahahaha that’s too funny.
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This is about how “culture war” is used as a distraction from class divides, right?
… Right?
What did you think it might be? That seems like the pretty obvious point.
Right
I love this
"your erasing me! " do they really say this shit? My Trans friend does joke about stuff saying “white blond woman detected” whenever they see them in mmos, it gives a similar vib.
There’s a lot of femcel communities that do say that, as well as calling them the same slurs they call men. There’s this rhetoric that trans women are a form of misogyny, that men decided to replace women with themselves to devalue “real women” and so on.
It’s mostly restricted to certain corners of the internet so it’s not taken that seriously.
THIS is a ‘real problem‘? A fraction of women who are hating trans? How’s this different from those women who are punching down on trans, thinking trans are ‘the real issue’, not oligarchs?
Look, there’s always going to be a small group of minorities who punches other minorities. Being pikachu-faced and talking about them over and over almost always end with these minority groups hating each other while not talking enough about the real perpetrators. What about oligarchs who are funding manosphere to promote hate on trans? The magnitude of harm is not even comparable, yet this is a real issue?
THIS is a ‘real problem‘? A fraction of women who are hating trans? How’s this different from those women who are punching down on trans
Sorry wait… your question is about two actions
A) punching down on trans people
B) calling out other oppressed people who punch down on trans people
… and your question is about how these two actions are different?
This is how the South African apartheid government of a minority of whites controlled everyone else. They pitted the Asians again the mixed race people, and both of them against the blacks. All about trying to maintain the spot of least harassed, most relatively privileged group.
Thank you for sharing this information
Sure thing! (Sorry the artist is only on IG/Facebook.)
I hate to be all “fragile masculinity”, but this comic seems to imply that men are somehow profiting from the situation and I really don’t think we are. Probably not what the artist intended to imply, but I figured I’d mention how it comes across.
What’s missing is the “camera” panning down to show that road is made of poor men, but that fits because many of them are functionally invisible.
The road is made out of women more than men.
No idea why this is being downvoted. Statistically, women have less wealth and more debt than men.
Its only in the last 50 years that women have been able to serve in wars. Its only in the last 50 years that most women have been able to find employment in the same spheres as men.
Yet, most soldiers are men. Yet in every hard labor industry the majority of employees are men. Most homicide victims are men. Most suicides are men.
Now, I will admit that I was tutored under the patriarchy and there may be a discrepancy in my learning. However, it is no difficulty to cite my sources.
My point is that women have undoubtedly contributed MASSIVELY to human innovation, and have suffered under patriarchal social systems, but by no means is it that the road of capitalism is paved with the bodies of women.
Yet in every hard labor industry the majority of employees are
I just want to point out that often women are actively pushed out of spaces like this. Ask any woman who has gone into a male dominated field how she is treated. We are often pushed out because of sexism, misogyny, and sexual harassment.
Example: I wanted to be an electrician, I was actively working towards that goal. I overheard how another electrician and the job foreman spoke about my body and the nasty things they would do to me if they had the chance when they thought I couldn’t hear them. It was disgusting and made me unsafe in that environment.
Because women don’t die in war. Or fail to receive proper medical treatment due to an establishment that failed to include them in research groups for most of history. Or are victims of domestic violence. And that’s just in the western world.
Women have physically labored for much of human history. Their efforts haven’t been as recognized as much by historians as men’s efforts have.
That’s not to take away from how men have contributed, mind you. But to say that the road to capitalism is not paved with the bodies of women is false.
I completely agree that women have physically labored for much of human history, and also have contributed in equal measure to much of the advances we now take for granted. My comment was not to diminish the suffrage of women under unjust and unequal systems, but to highlight that the majority of fatalities under capitalism are men.
Women 100% suffer under capitalism, there is no argument there, and yes their are definitely women in the brick and mortal of the road. The points I made and the sources I linked are specifically in context to the comment saying, “The road is made out of women more than men”. If it is not an equal mix, the statistics I have access to would say that men make up the majority of fatalities under capitalism.
You are absolutely diminishing women’s contributions and also positioning them as less enslaved by capitalism than men.
There are many, many ways that capitalism claims lives that aren’t from war or construction.
User found: The reason poor men voted for trump ^^
Edit: Oh of fucking course you think Amber Heard was all victim. Jfc.
The reason poor men voted for trump
“Poor men” didn’t vote for Trump. People without college degrees voted disproportionately for Trump (men and women alike). Even then, the state you’re in and your ethnic/religious persuasion was a stronger casual factor. Trump lost in a landslide with poor black and east-asian men, for instance. And he lost on the margin among poor men in the northeast and west coast.
Trump actually won with a majority of white women, against Hillary, Biden, and Kamala. This comic neatly illustrates why.
Gee, I wonder if there’s a correlation between not being educated and being poor…
Is ‘poor people are poor because they’re stupid’ really the message you want to put out?
You know, it would be really nice if people would think before they post a stupid comment.
They’re poor because they can’t get a good job without an education, not because they’re stupid, though you might be an exception.
Ah yes, correlation. The last stop of the fascist mind.
Ah yes, as we all know, correlation is now a useless word that can never be used again.
really? Women are working the fatal and disgusting physical manual jobs?
What else would you describe childbirth as?
Tell us where this magical land is where they pay you to have and raise kids. I will move there immediately.
Not all jobs have salaries.
What’s the thing we call jobs you don’t have to do and don’t get paid for? Oh right, hobbies.
Well how about that! That’s honestly really cool. I do love some me some kimchi, not gonna lie.
Not equal to each other? Also raising children should be recognized, but that doesn’t necessarily point to a specific sex. Over the last century women didn’t quite have the same physical burden men had.
I love how people are putting so much emphasis on childBIRTH as if that isn’t getting easier every decade due to scientific advances. Like, I can at least take the carrying of the child for 9 months seriously, but ffs a lady from my nutso church popped a kid out a few hours before Sunday service and she showed up just fine.
I love how people are putting so much emphasis on childBIRTH as if that isn’t getting easier every decade due to scientific advances.
I love it when people make it obvious they’ve never experienced something before but still want to speak like an authority on it.
I don’t know if I would exactly discount the whole thing. It’s certainly gotten better understood but I don’t know if it’s gotten any easier. The birth of our first child, which had some serious complications was an eye opener for sure, and I’m definitely witness to how badly the whole thing can wreck a woman’s body. Your anecdote about the church wife isn’t really appropriate here. There are certainly women who are just damn good, for whatever reason, at giving birth to children. Kind of a hidden talent, and more the exception than the rule.
I’m just not sure if it all equals an entire adulthood of back breaking labor, or how much that even applies to today’s men. Things have changed, obviously.
You would discuss childbirth as a job? Like not as a part of the lifecycle of a mammal, or the job of an obstetrician, but the actual process of giving birth is an activity for hire that is done for lucrative income?
You would discuss childbirth as a job?
Childbirth is literally referred to as “going into labor”. Like, Idk how else you would describe it if not nine months of hard work?
Sexual reproduction? Women are able to do things for themselves, are you telling me they get nothing out of being a mother? An activity that is difficult can exist without being called a job.
Someone better inform the rest of the
12060 billion mammals on the planet they better clock on and pick up their paycheck for their 9-5 jobs.Also, giving birth isn’t a re-ocurring activity one performs for their livelihood, it’s an event that someone goes through to achieve something, during a certain period of time under a week (ideally less than a day, but humans be bodying).
Prostitution
I mean, yes and no. As cis men we benefit in all kinds of ways that we’re not even aware of most of the time, simply from being cis men. But also toxic masculinity/patriarchy is harmful to men and we will all be freer when those structures and mindsets are knocked down.
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Do people doubt your competence because of your penis? Do they pay you less because you have a beard?
The comic is recognizing the existing systemic inequality between men and women, and how trans women suffer from both the system, and TERFs.
What you’re not seeing in the comic is the billionaire driving past in his Ferrari, blowing smoke on these three. It’s all about perspective. Non rich men are on top of the bottom.
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Not at all. Poor men benefit from having women be subjugated. If they have a wife they can always brutalize her with no consequences. If not a wife, they can brutalize a prostitute, or harrase any woman in the public.
No matter how low a man is, he is a little higher than the lowest woman.
So wait, do all poor men subjugate their wives and beat them? I just want to understand what argument you’re making.
They’re a misandrist. It’s as pointless talking to them as it is to manosphere idiots.
Lmao, someones never seen how police handle literally any dispute between a man and a woman. 90% percent the dude is treated as if he’s at fault, even if the woman was throwing knives at him.
Edit: This one thinks Amber Heard was only ever a victim. Opinion invalidated.
Edit2: 🎶 The likes on lemmy go up and down, up and down, all day long. 🎶
This comic also implies that black people don’t exist, since there aren’t any in the comic.
See how stupid “implications” are?
You’re right, but this triggered the redditors. It’s like the meme where the kid puts the boot on his head. No one said men can’t be poor??
wait until you find out 🏳️⚧️ on 🏳️⚧️🥾
So easy to oppress the most vulnerable, as a vulnerable person. Harder to punch up.wait until you find out 🏳️⚧️ on 🏳️⚧️🥾
Hasn’t been my experience. The LGBTQ community is incredibly tight-knit and politically engaged. One reason why liberal politicos are constantly hitting them up for volunteering and money.
As I got older and got to know friends and family coming out of the closet, I was genuinely amazed at how so many people were interconnected with one another, how often they socialized, how much culture came out of their community, and how the mutual-aid networks allowed the community to persist. Multi-generational trans communities primarily composed of run-aways and abuse survivors all helping one another to get work and housing and medical care gave me a glimpse into Actual Existing Socialism in my own backyard.
Julia Curlee, Caitlyn Jenner, Blair White, Natalie Wynn, Clara Sorrenti, [I can list more, but you get the idea]
Localized, for my safety, I am not going to discuss the queer spaces that have excommunicated me for my political acts. However I will engage in the discussion of “knitting” of who is allowed to tighten ingroups and outgroups of queerspaces. One of those “knitters” actively sent cops to transfolk, who are now in privately owned insane asylums, jails, and now “detention” centers. I am still dealing with someone blind in one of these for-profit insane asylums, fearing she might be “deported” anytime now.
I am saying this tribalism is a human problem. And it needs addressing.
Putting Caitlyn Jenner and Natalie Wynn on the same list is insane.
Oppression is oppression, whether it be by DemSoc liberals, or Conservatives.
Do note chief in oppression Julia Curlee.My localized oppresor is still thriving now that ICE is fullswinging anarchists spaces.
This is why I just don’t like humans. I’m not racist. I’m not sexist. I’m speciesist. I don’t even know if that’s a word, but fuck the humans. Just…all the humans. It’s always about power, and control, and taking from others. Then you get this shit where even the people who are at the bottom of the totem pole look down instead of up. Everyone thinks they and they alone are the most important person in the room.
In my defence though, I am the most important person in the room.
You don’t hate humans. You hate the system that incentivizes humans to behave this way.
Thinking human behavior under capitalism is intrinsic to human nature is like thinking bears juggling is intrinsic to their nature because you observe them doing so in a circus.
I highly recommend you read David Graeber’s work and direct that anger to where it belongs instead of holding on to those misanthropic views.
Hate to break it to ya but human behaviour sucks under a pretty diverse umbrella of economic systems.
Hate to break it to ya, but you have a very jaded and biased view that is not supported by anthropological evidence in the slightest.
The economic system isn’t the only system that is the problem, it’s just one ring in a three ring circus.
Again, you should probably read Graeber and do some learnin.
There are an amazing amount of avenues to learn about history and humanity than pimping 1 author again and again. Holding tightly to one perspective could narrow ones understanding.
100%. It’s ahistorical. The story of humanity is the story of smaller groups pooling together in larger groups for a common good.
The concept of Germany, Spain, or France is pretty new. It was a collection of small kingdoms. And before that even smaller clans. And before that etc etc. And now we start to think of them more and more as an even bigger unit: the EU.
We’re social creatures, and every meaningful improvement has happened because we work together and care for each other.
There’s always elements taking advantage of this, so it’s important not to forget that we have to fight for what we find important.
This defeatist view is a gift to those that want to take advantage of our good will. Yeah, life is hard and it sucks sometimes, but if you let that jaded view take over, you’re creating a self fulfilling prophecy.
I’m speciesist.
the word you want is misanthrope.
Welcome to the club, sibling.
Misanthropy is the term you’re looking for.
I struggle with feeling it far too often myself.
It’s always about power, and control, and taking from others
Most parasites & predators also praxis the above.
This isn’t solely a homo sapiens issue that needs addressing.Everyone thinks they and they alone are the most important person in the room.
Narcissistic personality disorder also affects animals too.
I’m speciesist. I don’t even know if that’s a word
It’s a word, and why sapien speciation supremacy is leading the charge towards total planetary extinction.
Humans suck, but Fire Hawks are just as bad if left alone.
That article is about the destruction humans do, not fire hawks. Some landscapes benefit from the spread of fire (fire has been part of the ecosystem of Australia for tens of thousands of years), and I’m not aware of any research that shows fire hawks cause environmental destruction at a level remotely near what humans cause.
It is believed that fire hawks are the primary reason Australia lost most of its forested land, and is mostly barren now. I am using them as an example of intelligent life choosing genocide as a strategy. There are other death cycling living beings causing more catastrophes than fire hawks alone: Ants, aphids, beavers, etc…
Could you link to a study about this? Fire hawks even intentionally using fire is so new to western science that it’s surprising to me to already assign that to them.
I’m still trying to find the aboriginal story of the great fire made everyone outskirts, which date around the same time fossils are indeed showing signs wildfire deforestation, but theory is that the stone writings of fire hawks predate the great fire, and it could be hypothesized they may have been involved then.
Humans are wonderful and terrible. It’s incredible. We’re the most important thing that has ever existed, as far as we know. I don’t know how it’s possible to think this. I hope we can grow and make it.
Hey guys! I upvoted this one because I thought it was funny enough, but because I dared piss on The Queen’s comic earlier I’m unfortunately been labeled a Nazi now… I’ll add it to the list of slurs I’ve been called in life.
Deleted the comment because I think people found it offensive, which was not my intent. It said “Get erased nerd”. I was referring to TERFs, like the one in this comic, whose presence can get erased as being a TERF is… bad.
I deleted this because people seemed to find it offensive which was not my intent. Unless TERFs found it offensive, in which case i do not care.
It said “get erased nerd” referring to the TERF in the comic, the only person claiming erasure. I stand by my intent and think that the TERF ideology should be erased. I wanted to add this reply to express support for trans folks in case my original intent was misinterpreted as anti-trans.
