The time for going after politicians is all the time and the frequency is to do it constantly. Especially democrats, you do not owe them anything when the party fails you.
One month before ballots are cast is not that time.
And neither is two months before ballots are cast, or three months before ballots are cast, and of course when it comes to the general election year is right out. The end result is that the time where you shouldn’t criticise The Party becomes a nontrivial fraction of a person’s whole life, and especially the politically significant portions of a person’s life (given that “right before the election” would normally be a very good time to put a proverbial gun to the party’s head). You’re basically sacrificing a good chunk of democracy to protect the Democrats at that point.
Also if a dem candidate is running on a bad platform the relevant time to criticize that is while they’re running, since that’s the whole point of the platform. There are criticisms which make the most sense to mention at specific times. Trying to mention a Democrats anti-trans ad, for example, and how that negatively affects trans people after the ad is off the air and the election is over makes no sense.
Shamefully, good policy doesn’t win elections. Popular policy wins elections. Good policy is how you pick your candidates. Popular policies is how you get your candidate elected.
If that were true then you’d never had Harris or Biden as nominees. Universal healthcare is massively popular, as is almost every other common left-wing policy - No wars, less money for the military, fix infrastructure. These are all policies with majority support, they are massively popular.
Politicians get picked by an oligarchic elite that then manipulates the minority of the electorate who isn’t completely checked out or alienated from voting, into voting for their capitalist stooge. Anytime an actual popular candidate appears to get traction they are immediately hamstrung and sabotaged. This is not a bug but a feature of the democratic party and the larger duopolitic structure that masquerades as a “democracy”.
Exactly. People tend to be a bit myopic on the left. They struggle to look beyond their distaste for specific parts of specific people to see the ideal strategy for change.
Republicans get this in spades. Your campaign rhetoric is virtually irrelevant after the primaries beyond its value in securing votes. Securing state and local government control is critical if you want to protect (or disenfranchise) a specific voting bloc.
We’re so busy eating our own for not being good enough that we just end up losing.
I’m aggressively progressive - I support reparations, reducing funding of police in favor of mental health care, free health care for all, UBI, etc - but holy shit does the left have no clue how to achieve their goals.
UBI is cool, but I recently watched some videos by Hazel Thayer that advocate for Universal Basic Services instead. Basically, if you give people UBI that covers the cost of rent, you’re putting money in landlords’ pockets. And I hate landlords! Guaranteeing free social housing for everyone would fix that problem. We should have basic housing, basic food, basic medicine, basic education, basic clothes, basic electricity.
UBI is cool because it’s easy to implement in policy overnight. It would take one single bill to do it. But UBS is a recipe for a better society, with less wealth going to capitalists.
Valid argument and probably correct. You’ve certainly nailed the appeal of UBI vs UBS.
The only thing I’d consider “better” about UBI is some amount of discretionary spending and choice
I might be be happy living in a shoebox apartment in NYC and keeping extra money for food or entertainment, while you might prefer a nicer apartment with simple food and your existing library of books.
Bingo. Can’t do it after an election because it’s too early to matter, have to see how they govern first. Can’t do it during a primary because we need to focus on electability. Can’t do it for the general because we have to win.
Amazing how there will always be time later for self reflection right around the corner…
You’re right, you do have to always be careful about how you criticise the democrats. There’s a technique to do it without radicalising people to the right. I’ve done it heaps of times.
People are telling you to stop criticising the democrats because you haven’t mastered that technique yet.
I caucused for Bernie. I’ve been politically active for two decades. I rail against the establishment Democrats just about every chance I get and spent a year not speaking to my brother over it and he’s a Democrat.
So, with all due respect, fuck you for assuming I would carry that sentiment outside of this time frame. Don’t project your issues with the Democratic party onto me. Have an actual conversation.
Well you’re echoing the people who do say that so it’s impossible to distinguish you without more details, but sure, in that case tell me: What’s your acceptable timeframe for criticizing the Democrats before the midterm and before the general?
Its always the right time to critique a shitty politician and the democrats suck ass. Buying into this “now is not the time” rhetoric is yet another in a long line of child-like tricks the DNC have got their voterbase to fall for. You don’t see the dems have the same expected unity for their own, if they appear slightly too leftist, nor do you see them have any such discipline for outsiders running in red districts.
Like what? Democrats running on deporting more people than Trump, democrats deporting more people than Trump, democrats throwing marginalised groups under the bus, democrats increasing police budgets, democrats expanding ICE budgets and authority, democrats doing fuck-all about Roe v. Wade, democrats committing genocide, democrats supporting foreign wars, democrats passing out massive fracking contracts or something else? Or did you mean how they probably wouldn’t have posted a mean easter message?
This is accurate. Many are actually accelerationists hoping for the collapse of the country as a catalyst for change. It’s poorly conceived and selfish in the extreme.
The degree to which ever single insufferable BlueMaga shitlib have simultaneously started bleating “accelerationist” constantly while never actually using it right really gives away the degree to which you all just receive your talking points and parrot them without even understanding what they mean.
What bluemaga podcast was it that had some guy appropriate the word “accelerationist”? I see you guys misuse it all the time now.
An accelerationist is not “someone who wants things to be bad.” It is a marxist tendency that believes because capitalists need to accumulate capital in order for contradictions to appear - which is necessary for the proletariat to become sufficiently alienated in order to rise up - then it is in the interest of the marxist to make this happen as quickly as possible, so as to bring about conditions fertile for socialism as quickly as possible.
An accelerationist will therefore vote for and support the most competent capitalist, because they will most efficiently accumulate capital. The accelerationist position is pretty commonly understood to be one that supports the democrats, since they are more competent managers of empire.
If youre going to throw concepts around, then learn what they are.
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No, keeping the oligarchy out of power is the only goal
On why people do not vote and why they dont vote democrat
The time for going after politicians is all the time and the frequency is to do it constantly. Especially democrats, you do not owe them anything when the party fails you.
This isn’t a Democratic party com
And neither is two months before ballots are cast, or three months before ballots are cast, and of course when it comes to the general election year is right out. The end result is that the time where you shouldn’t criticise The Party becomes a nontrivial fraction of a person’s whole life, and especially the politically significant portions of a person’s life (given that “right before the election” would normally be a very good time to put a proverbial gun to the party’s head). You’re basically sacrificing a good chunk of democracy to protect the Democrats at that point.
Also if a dem candidate is running on a bad platform the relevant time to criticize that is while they’re running, since that’s the whole point of the platform. There are criticisms which make the most sense to mention at specific times. Trying to mention a Democrats anti-trans ad, for example, and how that negatively affects trans people after the ad is off the air and the election is over makes no sense.
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If that were true then you’d never had Harris or Biden as nominees. Universal healthcare is massively popular, as is almost every other common left-wing policy - No wars, less money for the military, fix infrastructure. These are all policies with majority support, they are massively popular.
Politicians get picked by an oligarchic elite that then manipulates the minority of the electorate who isn’t completely checked out or alienated from voting, into voting for their capitalist stooge. Anytime an actual popular candidate appears to get traction they are immediately hamstrung and sabotaged. This is not a bug but a feature of the democratic party and the larger duopolitic structure that masquerades as a “democracy”.
And, this is crucial, I really need the non voters to listen to this:
We can all influence how popular a policy is
Exactly. People tend to be a bit myopic on the left. They struggle to look beyond their distaste for specific parts of specific people to see the ideal strategy for change.
Republicans get this in spades. Your campaign rhetoric is virtually irrelevant after the primaries beyond its value in securing votes. Securing state and local government control is critical if you want to protect (or disenfranchise) a specific voting bloc.
We’re so busy eating our own for not being good enough that we just end up losing.
I’m aggressively progressive - I support reparations, reducing funding of police in favor of mental health care, free health care for all, UBI, etc - but holy shit does the left have no clue how to achieve their goals.
UBI is cool, but I recently watched some videos by Hazel Thayer that advocate for Universal Basic Services instead. Basically, if you give people UBI that covers the cost of rent, you’re putting money in landlords’ pockets. And I hate landlords! Guaranteeing free social housing for everyone would fix that problem. We should have basic housing, basic food, basic medicine, basic education, basic clothes, basic electricity.
UBI is cool because it’s easy to implement in policy overnight. It would take one single bill to do it. But UBS is a recipe for a better society, with less wealth going to capitalists.
Valid argument and probably correct. You’ve certainly nailed the appeal of UBI vs UBS.
The only thing I’d consider “better” about UBI is some amount of discretionary spending and choice
I might be be happy living in a shoebox apartment in NYC and keeping extra money for food or entertainment, while you might prefer a nicer apartment with simple food and your existing library of books.
The popularity of a policy does not at all influence whether a dem advances it.
Bingo. Can’t do it after an election because it’s too early to matter, have to see how they govern first. Can’t do it during a primary because we need to focus on electability. Can’t do it for the general because we have to win.
Amazing how there will always be time later for self reflection right around the corner…
Please quote the part where I said any of that.
If people want to respond to my comment, respond to MY comment, don’t insert a more convenient argument just because you’re pissed at the DNC
I think you responded to the wrong comment
nope, you’re piling onto a response to my comment, same deal
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Downvoted for ableism
you replied to a comment that was a reply to me, parroting their position. Read up literally one more in the chain from your reply
You’re right, you do have to always be careful about how you criticise the democrats. There’s a technique to do it without radicalising people to the right. I’ve done it heaps of times.
People are telling you to stop criticising the democrats because you haven’t mastered that technique yet.
Then please enlighten us about this mysterious technique, then?
Yeah sure, I’ll give you the easy version. There’s more advanced techniques, but this first one is so simple anyone can do it:
Say “Fuck the GOP” when you criticise the dems.
Make space communism happen tomorrow or your argument is invalid.
By the same argument noone should vote democrat either since it won’t fix everything insantly
Did I say that? Don’t put words in my mouth.
I caucused for Bernie. I’ve been politically active for two decades. I rail against the establishment Democrats just about every chance I get and spent a year not speaking to my brother over it and he’s a Democrat.
So, with all due respect, fuck you for assuming I would carry that sentiment outside of this time frame. Don’t project your issues with the Democratic party onto me. Have an actual conversation.
Well you’re echoing the people who do say that so it’s impossible to distinguish you without more details, but sure, in that case tell me: What’s your acceptable timeframe for criticizing the Democrats before the midterm and before the general?
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We are not eating our own because we are not democrats
We are not yours, you liberal scum bag. Democrats are our enemies
Its always the right time to critique a shitty politician and the democrats suck ass. Buying into this “now is not the time” rhetoric is yet another in a long line of child-like tricks the DNC have got their voterbase to fall for. You don’t see the dems have the same expected unity for their own, if they appear slightly too leftist, nor do you see them have any such discipline for outsiders running in red districts.
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Like what? Democrats running on deporting more people than Trump, democrats deporting more people than Trump, democrats throwing marginalised groups under the bus, democrats increasing police budgets, democrats expanding ICE budgets and authority, democrats doing fuck-all about Roe v. Wade, democrats committing genocide, democrats supporting foreign wars, democrats passing out massive fracking contracts or something else? Or did you mean how they probably wouldn’t have posted a mean easter message?
This is accurate. Many are actually accelerationists hoping for the collapse of the country as a catalyst for change. It’s poorly conceived and selfish in the extreme.
The degree to which ever single insufferable BlueMaga shitlib have simultaneously started bleating “accelerationist” constantly while never actually using it right really gives away the degree to which you all just receive your talking points and parrot them without even understanding what they mean.
What bluemaga podcast was it that had some guy appropriate the word “accelerationist”? I see you guys misuse it all the time now.
An accelerationist is not “someone who wants things to be bad.” It is a marxist tendency that believes because capitalists need to accumulate capital in order for contradictions to appear - which is necessary for the proletariat to become sufficiently alienated in order to rise up - then it is in the interest of the marxist to make this happen as quickly as possible, so as to bring about conditions fertile for socialism as quickly as possible.
An accelerationist will therefore vote for and support the most competent capitalist, because they will most efficiently accumulate capital. The accelerationist position is pretty commonly understood to be one that supports the democrats, since they are more competent managers of empire.
If youre going to throw concepts around, then learn what they are.