I’ve had a couple of friends ask me if I’m prepping.
Prepping for what?
I see the UK is doing a Be Prepared campaign and Fucking Dan Bongino said something on a podcast. What’s that about?
I live in Japan and we call 3 days of water, meds, and food “tuesday” (well, 火曜日 technically). Then again, we also have earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, and the odd tornado or forest fire.
I don’t know the UK, but China is definitely targeting our infrastructure in the U.S, and there is enough PLC hardware online on shodan, that it will be easy for them. I would be surprised if it’s all that much different in the UK, but who knows, maybe they’re not expecting the same kind of attack. Regardless, that kind of resilience promotion is only responsible.
Wish we had that here.
Oh, that and also there’s probably a revolution/civil war coming
The idea is that in a longer outage you’re fucked anyway
but if you have “toilet paper” for 3 tot 10 days that will put less strain and panic in the system
it’s not saying it’s coming or coming soon but having “toilet paper” for a couple of days is good
Fuel protest blockades that caused some amount of supply chain shock have happened at least 4 times since 2000, then there’s been random riots in cities that in some cases materialized out of nowhere (though widely suspected to be a Russian social media op), then covid, and now there’s the super El Nino threatening to cause droughts and global food shortages. So there’s that.
Mostly prepping to go without food, electricity, travelling or communications because of sabotage of vital infrastructure (in Europe and UK is happening on a weekly basis) and climate catastrophes which are regular in the UK since 2020(ish) and increasing. There are also potential lockdowns because of pandemics (e.g. measles from US). Also Brexit Britain is now inoperative in terms of food safety, really, since it relies on mainland Europe food imports to survive. If something fails or there’s a mega-storm, supermarkets will be empty for days like they were in 2018 or 2020.
Have you looked outside? The world is very unstable right now. Most EU countries are implementing preparedness right now.
As far as dumbass dan goes, a broken clock is right at least two times a day LOL
Go back and read the news from after some recent natural diasters - winter storms, hurricanes, landslides. People can be suddenly cut off from supplies and even with an immediate response it could be a week or more until basic food and water is avaiable to everyone. Most stores in cities need daily or at least a couple times a week of deliveries to keep shelves stocked. Rural areas aren’t any better. None of them are set up to have every customer show up in the same 24 hour period to restock. Having a bunch of stuff on hand that doesn’t need refridgeration and can be eaten as is, not cooked, is very important.
Yes, totally agree but, why are they pushing now to have people prep? Stores have been like that for years already.
Because we are preparing for war
Im very suspicious about this suddenly becoming a thing. If it was earlier I would be suscpicious about wanting to have a spike in spending before the election but way to late to have that have impact. Would have if it was pushed more in spetember so it could come out with october figures.
This writeup here goes into it in some depth. Wish I had the full non-paywalled version, but hopefully that’s enough.
Notice the world is rearming with alarming haste? The post WWII calm, the rules based order, just died, due to Russia’s military agression of conquest, China’s weaponization of trade and America’s unmittigated use of both.
The predictable world marked by moderation in good things and bad, is gone now. When the hits come, you can expect the bullies to take your lunch money. Partnerships with other countries are just one election away from turning on you or changing allegiances. You can’t even count on geopolitical analysis of rational behaviour and self interest. This being exemplified by Russia and the USs self immolation.
The governments around the world understand the risks, and expect more discontinuity of services. Pandemics, freezer hackings, war, AI, planetary boundaries and climate change and more all mean that our previous quests of efficiency and profitability instead of resilience and sustainability as a goal, make everything hyper fragile.
When the government says stock up to last a while during disruptions, its because they know they aren’t capable of shielding everyone from everything. They are warning you “we’ll take care of the big stuff, but for the small stuff you’re on your own.”
Honestly this should be the tagline if truth and action is really what’s needed from the populace. “We’ll take care of the big stuff, but for the small stuff you’re on your own.” Back in the WWII days people did much more… take a look at victory gardens as an example. We’re very accustomed to getting what we need easily and I don’t think it’s a bad thing to remind people that can change.
Shit. November isn’t a great time to start a victory garden where I am.
I also have trees blocking sunlight for as long as they have leaves.
I guess it’s mushrooms in the basement for me.
In my family we have an ongoing argument regarding when instant gratification became the norm. I say it’s the ATM. My husband says it’s the car. Obviously things have increased pretty rapidly since either of those.
It’s the microwave oven
My dad talks about the air conditioner. He says how people don’t go out on the porch now which leads to talking to neighbors because the temperature inside is nicer. That not talking to neighbors means doing it all on ones own which requires that instant gratification.
I want to argue but this last summer was definitely a staying inside one.
You have perfectly described Florida after a hurricane. All the neighbors chillin’ together, power comes back, BYE. Just did that two weeks ago.
Not a brit but when I think about the kinds of sacrifices people used to make and are still making in some places and I try to apply that to, like, my parents, my mind boggles.
My mom becomes sullen and just so unpleasant if a restaurant takes more than 20 minutes to get her food out, even when she can see they’re very busy. She’s not the kind of boomer that yells at the waitstaff (actually she’s Gen X anyway lol) but she bitches nonstop to everyone waiting with her, which makes it hard for everyone else. It always felt like she was never raised with any expectation to moderate her own feelings about things at all.
Her ONLY HOBBY is TV, and it’s all she has to look forward to after work. She can’t sleep without her one specific box fan. I feel like rolling blackouts would send her into absolute fits.
China’s weaponization of trade
Eh, I don’t think the threat of Chinese trade is that it is being strategic. The problem is that China has set itself up so that it only really needs natural resources to maintain its economy and won’t/can’t open itself up to import other manufactured goods of significant quantity.
It is incredibly hard for any industrial or service led economy to export enough goods and services to China to make up for the goods that China wants to export.
In general yes, but don’t forget China’s witholding critical minerals for example. China wields trade policy like a bludgeon, not a tool. Trade policy of China, between business interests and strategic interests are inseperable.
LOL with the Russia stuff. In the meantime, how much did the US do? Israel?
The fact that we’re running out of cheap easy high quality fossil fuels? Nothing? No connection?
Everything is connected. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is driven primarily for the desire for their resources, primarily their fertile black soils. It’s a globally significant breadbasket that under increasing climate change becomes a strategic asset.
Don’t assume that a lemmy post will be a complete picture of everything.
This is entirely Putin’s plan to dismantle America and attack Ukraine so Europe rearms.
He wants to attack his perceived ennemies so that they can rearm? What kind of plan is that? Also the US can dismantle itslef without him and that would be still be a net positive for the world.
Most European countries have a version of this, but what is driving Britain’s “be prepared” campaign seems to be:
- Seeing what happened during COVID.
- Russia et all doing shit.
- Several rounds of cyber attacks.
- America making noises about Greenland and getting concerning and less reliable over all.
- Effects of climate change (Heatwaves and Storms).
Basically a load of civil servants have been asked to figure out how we can be prepared for emergencies and they’ve come back with “people should be ready for a disaster so we have some wiggle room during our response”.
A lot of it in reality is just general advice to save the government some energy if something does happen and a lot of other countries have more extraordinary things (The Netherlands have disaster sirens, Poland has bomb shelters).
Do I think it’s preparation for a war? No. I’m not getting Protect And Survive vibes, but things are getting rather concerning in terms of things like methods of attack (cyber attacks) and climate change (we just had some horrible Heatwaves). Basically the government is asking people to prepare for disasters in case something happens that they don’t expect (like what happened with COVID).
I feel like maybe 10% of people would actually prepare correctly. If those preparations are tested, there will be a huge mess
Yes, we all remember COVID.
I remember my first trip after lockdown was loosened and the shit I saw concerned me.
Russia is a threat to Europe again. You may have left the EU but you’ve not physically moved anywhere. They probably won’t bomb UK directly but they can and will try to sabotage things. You’re a member of NATO still.
Extreme weather and storms will be more common with climate change.
Critical infrastructure is all connected. One vulnerability could take banks offline for a few days for example.
Yes yes yes, Russia. Check under your bed too.
bro is commenting under every comment thats not pro-Russia.
As a radical progressive leftist it is possible to acknowledge:
- the empire of the United States has committed uncountable war crimes and crimes against humanity to maintain control and spread capitalism
- the historical USSR had many issues of human rights abuses and while its people did not struggle in the same way as in America, it was not a perfect system nor was the socialist/communist vision ever truly implemented in its entirety
- the current Russian government is an incredibly corrupt dictatorship that does commit human rights abuses and crimes against humanity and while it may not have the influence the United States has, it is also an enemy of the people
No on is free until we are all free. Both The United States and Russia are oppressors of the people.
Ah yes, another “leftist” who takes time to shit on the USSR for no reason and who believes the US and Russia are somehow in the same ballpark as imperialists.
Saying that Russia “may not have the influence [of] the US” and then judging both states exactly the same is wild.
Critical support for Russia. America will fall.
I don’t judge them the same at all. As someone with a lot of family from a lesser developed country I have seen the devastating impacts that capitalism has on local people and populations. I’ve seen lush forests green with life from my childhood stripped for mining and resources. Ive seen people and family members exploited by wealthy Americans and Europeans. I watched as the people I loved were the last to receive critical resources during the pandemic. The US has killed and oppressed hundreds of millions and will continue to do so until it is dedtroyed.
But from where I stand Russia is not a saviour nor paragon of leftism. It is a state-capitalist country and has been for a while. as a trans and countercultural person I would not be accepted in contemporary nor historical Russia, and I know that because I have friends with family in Russia right now and who has visited that family with drone strikes overhead. The USSR was not safe for many people and has committed great atrocities in the name of communism. It was an oppressive authoritarian regime that has directly led to this moment in history. Would I rather live in the USSR than contemporary America? If I could be safe in my queer identity then absolutely. Note that I am not saying the US is safe for queer people; I am very lucky to be in one of the few safe places in this country. But if there was a third (non-European) option, I would preferably take that.
I refuse to dickride for dictatorships, and I qualify both the US and USSR under that. Maybe its just because im an anarchocollectivist/anarchocommunist but you’re going to have a very difficult time convincing me we need oppressive authoritarian powers when I have seen and experienced effective community organizing and planning to direct resources into meaningful action and change. Buildong strong resilient communities that are sovereign and self sufficient is how we fight fascism, not by becoming better fascists than our enemies.
Not really what you’re asking, but having several days of bottled water on hand is arguably a good idea in general.
Water’s one of the things that you’re going to need before too long if some sort of disaster does strike. It keeps well, and it’s not terribly expensive.
Yep.
I’m not a prepper but I have an emergency water supply that, under the worst circumstances, could last me a month and a half. It’s really nice when the water’s out for whatever reason to have zero disruption.
Same with food, roughly 1.5 months worth.
I agree that when it comes to the essentials to live, it’s just a good idea to have reserves.
Yeah, you are a prepper.
Most people that do legitimate emergency preparedness programs tend to only go two weeks out, because unless you have specific geographic restrictions, any emergency that lasts longer than two weeks is essentially going to end the world.
Thank you for that information.
How much water and food is that? We could easily live for a couple of weeks off what’s in our pantry and freezers. Losing electricity would shorten that considerably.
I haven’t crunched the numbers exactly, but I have six 12-packs of canned, purified water. I’d guess I have about 50-60 packs of dry, shelf stable goods like rice packs and mac-and-cheese, but also have a bulk pack of twelve jars of peanut butter that I bought solely to keep in case of some unimaginable cataclysm.
So yeah, not prepper level, but definitely stocked adequately for any short-term disruptions.
I started building up my pantry after ‘Liberation Day’, because I was concerned supply chain disruptions would get worse and more frequent.
Ok. That sounds totally reasonable. When you said over a month, i thought you had one of those MRE barrels from Costco. We usually have a case of water and a case of bubbly water cans in the garage and we could probably live for 4 weeks if we had effectivity to keep things frozen. We’re bad about throwing stuff into the garage freezer and forgetting it’s there - mostly chicken nuggets, French fries, pizza. Cucumbers, tomatillos, and hatch peppers are growing right now.
Yup, it’s just me, so I don’t really need a ton of supplies.
At least, I hope we don’t run into an event where what I have is insufficient.
Anything.
Could be an unfortunate freak accident that disables the electricity grid.
Could be that all trees around your home all fall down and block the roads so you can’t get to the store.
Could be that you break your leg and can’t go to the store to get food or water for 10 days.
Could be flooding, could be drought, could be wildfires, could be a reversal of earths magnetic field or a solar storm that destroys all electronics and throws us back to the stone age.
3-10 days is the realm of “something could happen that meaningfully disrupts the general supply chain”. and also still reasonable to expect of people. Like, they’re not going to ask you to stock up 6 months worth of water and food in a 50m² apartment. That’s not going to happen. Too expensive, don’t have the room. And they’re also not going to ask you to stock one (1) cookie for an emergency in case you get hungry tomorrow afternoon.
And also, if the problem is so huge that the government, military and NGO people can’t fix it in 10 days, that’s a pretty damn big problem and it could be that stocking up from 1 month doesn’t help much more than 10 days, because they can only solve it in 5 years.
3-10 days also buys time to figure out evacuation without having to think about literally the next meal.
I know some of it is from the problem of cyber security issues, very real ones, that stem from ai models, both the llm kind and the more advanced multi modal coding variety that have made finding vulnerabilities and then incorporating attacks into home brewed or nation state brewed targeting much, much easier and faster. This has resulted in very real network problems, and isn’t expected to get easier to defend against because it’s not like you just update for ai facilitated hacks and you’re done, they are just going to increase in numbers until basically an entirely different method of protecting systems is employed.
This has made many people nervous and believe that it’s only a matter of time before financial systems, energy sector systems, water systems, basically all the critical infrastructure, are attacked and have to go offline until long term fixes are found.
There will be people saying ai is all an illusion and just next word predictive analytics that can’t even do basic math, but those days are over, it was true months ago, but the modern models are much, much more capable and llms aren’t what’s being used to do the hacking, llms are being used to find known vulnerabilities that were largely ignored or orgs have been too slow to patch, but that’s not the only method being used to find new vulnerabilities. It’s a problem, cybersecurity in the ai companies have said they’re probably 18 months away from developing models that are specifically for defensive cybersecurity, so even they can’t and aren’t profiting from this issue right now, so it’s not just hype.
That being said, I’ve always been a believer in having a few days at least of food, water, medical supplies, and power generation. I don’t believe more than that will be necessary because if it is, we’re all screwed and no amount of prepping will ensure safety and over stocking will just make you a target and put a target on your family and property. Just be smart and have the basics you would need for a really bad weather event. You should always have that.
Should have kept critical infrastructure offline then 😁 this is their own doing.
Agreed
If people are using LLMs to find vulnerabilities then why doesn’t cybersecurity do the same. Run patches and updates through simulations until it’s as AI proof as possible. Is there a reason why AI can’t be used for white hatting?
Many are, but it’s not enough. Yes ai is expected to be used to automate white hatting, and already is by the most reasonable and advanced orgs, but greed and stupidity do exist and always will. Many companies fired or minimized security staff because they wanted to minimize overhead or thought ai would make one security staff member able to do the job of five. Many servers and sites just sit there run by private individuals or small companies that don’t even have a cybersecurity team.
A huge issue is ai tools have done a very specific thing that makes it harder to shore up - it used to be tedious and boring to implement hacks once a vulnerability was discovered, so a vulnerability would sit unused for days, weeks, months. Ai now ca do all that tedious, boring work for you, and lowers the bar for who can. That drastically increases the number of attacks and the discovery and dissemination of zero day hacks. Ai won’t be omniscient, so it won’t prevent everything even when it can be always on and just as capable defensively.
Also, it’s a good rule of thumb to expect destructive forces to take less time than constructive ones, depending on the target and the goals. Constructing things properly takes care and planning, but taking a sledgehammer to a system can be pretty swift if you know where to hit
So the root problem goes back to capitalism really. AI is the tool but greed and ignorance are the engine as usual.
That’s how I read it too. All because they hope it pays off for rich people… and maybe some of us poors. But probably not.
Whose AI are you using to secure your systems? If you’re in the UK and your using American AI to harden things, you could be just installing their back doors. Maybe you get the lesser AI and they use the top of the line.
Edit maybe they just quietly interfere with your cloud infra, under a secret presidential order.
I’m not sure what you’re talking about. A white hat would design their own AI for the specific purpose of stress testing a security system.
Not sure what you’re talking about. A white hat doing home hobbyist levels of DIY AI building will get blown out of the water by the corporations and governments sponsoring serious systems.
I don’t understand why you think someone contracted or works for a cybersecurity company would be some hobbyist DIY guy with a computer.
Cause you are talking about some guy, not the collective efforts of companies or governments.
What gave you the impression that I was just talking about some guy
