- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
cross-posted from: https://piefed.ca/post/145931
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This is no bleep. Far right authoritarianism is soon to become the new normal.
Technocratic centrism is entirely ineffective to address this. “Solving problems” while “preserving normalcy” and the “stability of the markets” is not enough. It just simply cannot beat fascism at the ballot box after a couple of cycles.
The reason is that the “normalcy” is unsustainable, untenable. Both reality and the electorates need transformation politics. The Right transformative narratives have stepped into the fray.
Only an actual Left counter, with an actual Left program for transforming society can stop this.
Only an actual Left counter, with an actual Left program for transforming society can stop this.
Unfortunately they can’t, because that would financially hurt the millionaires and billionaires that own the media, so they’ll do everything they can to discriminate any left party with actual chances to get some influence and make sure everyone thinks they are bad.
I don’t have a solution. I’m just here to ask if anyone’s up for a barbecue? I can think of a few nice places for a fire.
(Joke aside, pure vandalism wouldn’t fix the underlying issue that is the perceived legitimacy of the robber barons. So long as people accept their claim to ownership, they will continue to own. It’s that claim to property that needs to be challenged.)
Hm, my take would be that rich people bought up all the free press, radio and TV stations since the 90s and streamlined them into parroting the owners and sponsors agenda. now they decide what problems we talk about and who can “solve” them.
The reason is simple: Neither the center left nor the center right are delivering for the broad human populace. They both protect the ultra rich by not taxing them, which in turn creates a redistribution of wealth from the poor, the middle class AND the state to the ultra rich.
On a basal level, everyone understands that the economic status quo can not continue. Living standards continue to fall regardless of who is in power, and so it is inevitable that people will demand some sort of drastic change.
The loudest voice promising change is the alt right.
The second loudest voice is us, taxing the rich. It must be done, and we need to do all we can to become the loudest voice. We have several more years until the elections in eg. UK and Germany. Let’s do it. Let’s tax the rich.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pUKaB4P5Qns&pp=0gcJCa0JAYcqIYzv
I see there is a broader reason: without colonial empires and without a technological or demographic advantage, we are in decline. The only thing going for Europe is the progressiveness and open societies, which allowed us to patch up demography with migrants, but even that is being attacked and lost.
Europe is going back to being irrelevant in global terms, which means economic decline and economic decline always leads to political instability and crazy people taking over with stupid solutions, but they always fail, because there isn’t enough growth to make people happy.
Best that can be done is slow the decline and spread the sacrifices with left policies, but inevitably incumbents will get punished and we get back to megalomaniac miracle cures that set us back again.
I personally support ‘taxing the rich’, but I also think presenting this as a solution is hopelessly oversimplified. We need to rebuild the complex social contract, and this goes well beyond taxes imo.
It’s oversimplified on purpose. The message needs to be crystal clear, and it needs to be repeated so often that no politician can go into a Talkshow without having to explain themselves why they are not taxing the rich.
This is the only way to make progress here as a society. You need broad support here.
Having said that, I actually, earnestly believe that taxing the rich is a prerequisite to
- solving climate change
- having a working government
- reestablishing the social fabric of our society
- etc.
If you are curious to learn more how this is backed up by data, you can eg. read „toxisch reich“ by Sebastian Klein (unfortunately only available in German I think)
It’s oversimplified on purpose. The message needs to be crystal clear, and it needs to be repeated so often that no politician can go into a Talkshow without having to explain themselves why they are not taxing the rich.
Is this the solution or part of the problem? Don’t get me wrong I don’t question your good intentions, but I am not sure whether this is the right way to get there. Our information pipelines - and the talkshows - are crammed full of simple would-be solutions that doesn’t bring us any further imo.
What we needed is a broad public discussion across the whole society asking questions like, “What should the state and our democratic communities be responsible for?”, “How much money should the government spend, and for what?” (These are, btw, the same questions any university lecture on Public Finance starts with.)
Are talkshows (or big tech’s social media such as Tiktok, Facebook, and the like) the right tools to discuss these? I don’t think so. I used to believe that decentralized platforms like Lemmy may offer an opportunity to initiate such a debate, but after a few days here I am not so sure anymore. There is as much partisanship and totalitarian gibberish as anywhere else.
Maybe this comment is a bit off-topic, so just ignore it (and feel free to delete it), these are just my 2 cents.
I think most people calling for a tax on the rich understand this only works in a broader system of a well managed government. We can’t tax the rich 99% and be done with it. But it’s good to mention the things we need to thrive as a community:
- Affordable healthcare
- meaningful and relevant education
- smart infrastructure (preferably focussing on public transport over private transport)
- trustworthy organasitions managing things for the public good including all bodies of government
- and fair rules for everyone and fair enforcement (not only speed limits, but also taxes and benefits).
It is the lynchpin though.
Not just for generating revenue to fund public programs. In fact, arguably, that’s not even the main point.
The real problem is inequality. We need “punitive” (a better word might be “rebalancing” or “excisional”) wealth taxes on the rich, to rebalance society and restore the social contract. Basically, short of a proper socialist revolution, we need to make the rich much less rich, make billionaires millionnaires again.
I’m a member of the German left-wing party and I promise we’re fighting tooth and nail against this.
Since you’re immersed in this, what’s behind the rise of far right populism in DE, and Europe more broadly?
Oh boy, that topic has so many layers that interconnect with each other that I could talk about it all day.
Massively simplified I would say it mainly boils down that basic needs aren’t fulfilled anymore. Increasing costs of groceries, rent, public transport, healthcare and taxes to name a few meet decreasing investments (monetary and political will in general) in infrastructure, social housing, healthcare, pensions etc.
People see they pay a lot but get little in return and the right-wing parties like the AfD used that to perfection by offering simple solutions against the weakest of our society for little resistance and the use of
propagandasocial media.Meanwhile we fight against the powerful, the big companies, the rich and deeply encrusted structures without being able to offer simple solutions.
But don’t forget, we, as in “Die Linke”, had and still have a massive influx of new members, many of whom are politically active. The left is on the rise too although not as much.
Massively simplified I would say it mainly boils down that basic needs aren’t fulfilled anymore. Increasing costs of groceries, rent, public transport, healthcare and taxes to name a few meet decreasing investments (monetary and political will in general) in infrastructure, social housing, healthcare, pensions etc.
So neoliberalism, basically.
And the bloody Austerity narrative, which has been strong in Germany at least since 1990 (Wiedervereinigung).
But it’s not just the three countries mentioned in the headline, and it’s not a new phenomenon.
You also, and i mean it in the best way possible, have a disgusting big pro russia standing. Pardon my french
The pro russian people left the party and founded the BSW. Since then Die Linke is stronger then ever. They still try to end the war with talking instead of cutting Putins head of which I would prefer differrently, but everything else works out great.
Yes but many in DieLinke is still pro russia.
They repeat russian propaganda. Saying that the joining of the former east block country in NATO is one of the causes for the annexation of Crimea and this attack. They dont want to send weapons to ukraine so ukraine can defent itself. Put it as if NATO forced the nations to join and that it was against a (none existing) treaty to allow the former east block country to join NATO.
To stand against helping a democratic nation defend itself, be it because of naiv pacifism or active helping the aggressor, is unacceptable. One can not negotiate with a lion if it constantly attacks you and you got your head in its mouth.
Read it yourself my friend if you dont belief my word
Ukraine - Fraktion Die Linke im Bundestag https://share.google/brGd5Jmi3808MY3yB
I haven’t seen russian propaganda repeated by them yet. Even in your linked page they clearly state that they don’t support them.
The joining of former east block countries into NATO is one of the reasons for Putins aggression. He said it himself. That doesn’t make it right, but it’s a fact. And there was no treaty about it but it was agreed upon that it won’t happen. Still I don’t think it’s valid when it’s not written down and signed. Just stating the facts. Also these nations should be able to decide for themselves if they want to join NATO or not.
I’m with you that not sending weapons and hoping for a diplomatic end of the war clearly doesn’t work. DieLinke should definitly rethink their stance on this.
Like I said earlier it’s my main complaint about the party.
No, we don’t. That’s just plain wrong.
Then why should we not send weapons to ukraine so they can defend themself and us? Why should we disolve/leave NATO? Why should ukraine give up their lands? Why should Ukraine not be allowed to join NATO?
DieLinke puts it as the former east block countrys didnt join NATO on their own behalf and that this “expansion” was part of the fault of this war. Repeating russias propaganda and revisionism.
All positions and demands by DieLinke
If you dont belief it maybe you should read it yourself
Ukraine - Fraktion Die Linke im Bundestag https://share.google/brGd5Jmi3808MY3yB
Call me a coward or anything you want but I’m not going to start an online argument with someone who argues in bad faith to begin with.
On the human logical side think about this: your country (east germany) finally is free. You think things will finally go up! Then the west neglects you, trests you as second class citicen, buys up all the industry there and closed them down. Now you and all your friends are out of a job. Oh and look at that also all your state leaders are from the west too, that you have been taught to hate. Woow 2000s! A guy promises to fix stuff…he doesnt, everything gets more expensive and OH NO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER JUST GOT IT! “Back then this would have never made it to the news!” You start to think back at how easy it seemed. Hey a leader from your are rules german! Merkel surely will fix it. Scandal scandal scandal scandal. Now its 2008 and the market crashes! OH NO! Economy is even worse! Now you are told your money goes to greece because they are in debt? What gives? The Imigrants get a job but you dont? Wtf?
Then come people that say are from your area and tell you exactly what you want to hear. That everything has been going to shit and all other parties arent doing shit! They grow more and more populare and with you also more and more radical. You start to hate and despise this thing called democracy, harder romantication. Then…lock down…everything is getting even worse it seems to you. You fall into a rabbit hole of conspiricy theory. “Yes” you tell yourself. “We need a strong leader again! This is all getting out of hand! Back then it was still orderly and safe!”
And here we are today. Ofc this doesnt justify their voting. But if you look at it from their perspective…you kinda can understand. They are right that things have gone to shit for the last 30 years.
People want a way out they want better lifes. Perfering easy solutions. And if only one party seems like they arent like the others or evil leftwings surely they are a good choice right? These people clearly are desperate. Ofc some of them are just full nazis and fascists, we cant denie that. The AfD is full of fascists.
Watch what we do on the left in the US and then go ahead and DON’T FUCKING DO THAT. It’s been utterly failing.
The US has a Left?
Yeah I think it’s important to point out that for a European the US has two parties to the right on the economic scale.
I’d also argue that US style “leftism” (divisive identity politics on top of neoliberalism) has ruined the European left that was all too eager to import and copy that horseshit.
Could you give any examples of that in Europe? Because I don’t feel like I’ve seen that
For the adoption of neoliberalism, in nominally “left” political organisations, look at “Social” Deomocrats in pretty much any European country, and some of them are trying to conceal that by putting on a veneer of identity politics.
One very prominent example of a formerly leftist party turning full neoliberal while hiding behind a facade of identity politics are the German Greens.
Overall, classic working class issues have been largely abandoned by most self proclaimed left parties and movements, while they are busying themselves with identity politics based infighting. Not all of them have embraced full neoliberalism, but pretty much all of them subscribe to the extreme individualism that is central to the neoliberal ideology.
Sorry I should’ve specified, I don’t understand what the identity politics is that they’ve been doing?
To be honest the US would be the last place next to other autocracies I’d look for in guidance for left-wing politics.
You better
USA:
Germany, France, Britian:
A lot of people view it as a pathway to burn down the system, aka “accelerationists” or some variant of their ideology.
It’s all rooted in the general feeling of utter disgust with the current state of the world. Rather than attack one of the core problems-- unbridled greed/capitalism–their anger/frustration has been redirected by malicious algorithms towards their communities/neighbors.
That’s basically democratic terrorism
Until Prime Minister Farage is selling Land Rovers out in front of Number 10, they’re really just a bunch of posers.
Why would a racist sell Indian cars?
Social media platforms are now mostly for reproducing fascism, along with large chunks of mass media.
Fascism, is, however, a scam.
Do Russia and China’s investments in Europe’s far-right pay back?
A study on extreme political parties in the European Parliament (from April 2024) by the Association for International Affairs (AMO) the European far-right downplays the significance of China’s human rights violations (opens pdf). Far-right parties also mostly echo Beijing’s rhetoric on sovereignty, supporting China’s territorial claims in regions like Hong Kong, Xinjiang, Taiwan, and Tibet.
For example, both Germany’s far-right AfD and France’s Rassemblement National argue that decoupling from China or imposing economic sanctions harms European economies, advocating instead for stronger economic cooperation with Beijing, and they often oppose EU sanctions on Russia, trying to undermine European support for Ukraine.
The European far-right’s view of China and Russia as some sort of “counterbalance to U.S. alignment” and criticizing Europe for its historically close relationship with the U.S. is something we also read here on Lemmy very often (although it is clear that the U.S.’ recent abandonment of democratic principles doesn’t make China and Russia better partners).
thank you but we can manage ourselves.
you don’t give a fuck about the rising tide of fascism in Europe. Again you just want to push your anti China agenda. And you don’t even try to make it relevant to the topic at hand anymore.
@bungalowtill@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Why so uneasy?
Just last week, for example, a far-right lawmaker’s former aide of Germany’s populist party AfD has gone on trial in the city of Dresden over accusations of spying for China.
This week, Germany’s far-right AfD called for ending aid payments to Ukrainians in Germany, playing directly into Russia’s hands.
And these are just two examples.
If you really want to understand and intend to do something against the rise of fascism in Europe, you must not view it as a process that happens isolated within European borders, because foreign interference particularly by Russia and China is evident - not to forget that there is not so much difference.
[Edit typo.]
Why so uneasy?
Because I’ve been watching the shift of public discourse in Europe over the last decades and it didn’t need the involvement of foreign adversaries to get to where we’re at right now. Conservatives, centrists, neoliberal social democrats dismantled the welfare state and privatised public assets of every single country in the West and then started blaming foreigners for failing institutions and destroying social cohesion.
And that’s pretty much what you do.
Instead of acknowledging that we have manoeuvred ourselves into a pretty dire situation, you come along and perpetuate that sentiment that we are somehow manipulated by foreign actors. In the end you justify those xenophobic feelings we’ve been fed by our local actors, too.
Nah, your denial of the obvious hurts the goal of fighting fascism. You completely ignore all other arguments and just repeat your own.
Foreign bad-faith, authoritarian actors are using -sometimes legitimate- critique of Western democracies - but not to improve the situation, but rather to worsen it and promote their own cause. You are echoing their totalitarian narratives. When China’s foreign minister declares that China will not allow Russia to be defeated in its war in Ukraine, as he has done a few weeks ago, then he directly threatens European security once again. There is strong evidence.
This is not about ‘blaming foreigners’ but a brutal reality. We need more democracy, not less. More equity, not less.
But I have good news for you: if you really think Russia and China is so much better, why not move there? It’s up to you.
so much bad faith dude
suggesting to move to China or Russia? Because I really think they are so much better? You’re just pulling this out of your ass and you know it. I am criticising my home because it’s turning fascist and you’re suggesting I move to China, fuck you.
And because we’re talking fighting fascism: what’s your plan? I’ve never seen you fight fascist narratives here, you only keep on gesturing towards the outside threat. Are you gonna go there and fight European fascism over there, or how does it work? Wouldn’t it be easier to fight those narratives here (no matter where they are coming from), so people don’t fall for it in the first place?
What the fuck is happening.
Poor education, social media and targeted Russian misinformation campaigns. The perfect mix
And a failing neoliberal economic model
IDK about the education bit. Finland, once famous for it, is already governing in a neoliberal-conservative-fascist coalition.
Despite what the headline sounds like, this is not a new problem and it’s happening across Europe, not just these three countries.
I blame neoliberalism, lobbyism aka legal corruption, and the Austerity narrative.
I would say it mainly boils down that basic needs aren’t fulfilled anymore. Increasing costs of groceries, rent, public transport, healthcare and taxes to name a few meet decreasing investments (monetary and political will in general) in infrastructure, social housing, healthcare, pensions etc. @
besides generally whats happening, its also putin/russian funds these groups(both right wing supremecists, far-right government and politicians, TRUMP being the most blatant example) at certain times of ever few years, usually around election time. why you see sudden rise of right wingers in all countries at once. AFD (both MUSK, and putin as of recently).
its also putin/russian funds these groups
Fund, supports, pushes on SoMe. Absolutely, and I should’ve mentioned that. That, too, has been going on for a long time.
In recent times I’ve seen a take more frequently that boosting polls far away from the elections just helps the populists. German article:
English paper (not peer-reviewed): https://www.wiwi.uni-muenster.de/loep/en/research/publications/154536
I haven’t seen a political party, which has an actual scope and vision to have a feasable plan and approach to tackle the problems we’re actually facing. The old ideals have died a while ago, and the stuff that used to bind us and keep us together aa groups, has disappeared.
This new world we live in has new unique problems and complexity, which actually can only maybe be solved in an worldy international stage. But, the priorities, cultures, educations , etc, are too divergent region wise.
In a sense a world government and a world carved up in regions or parts of regions might provide a system, to translate citizens preferences and their specific problems into a resemblance of a workable political representation.
Imo, as politicians have no clue what’s even happening, they comeup with very simple symbolic politics, simply to garner a position, and appease voters. In the end their results might be questionable at best, but we do sense something like a better or a worse choice, if you will.
Since the world has become interconnected no one ciuntry or people, can sustain a model based on self reliance. With our im& export markets we export our own problems, and naturally import other countries problems.
I think the changes of late, are too many and too quick for any sane person to comprehend. We are all spilling all the ideas, good and bad, over to each other and we just sort of choose a middle path somewhere in this chaos, while simultaneously desperately clinging to what ia perceived as a ritualism of our idea of a sane political, economical and material world.
But everyone knows it’s fake. Especially the Billionaires of these times, and Politicians they know it’s all bullshit. And we know it too, but we need a sense a normalcy, so we grab anything we can to justifify our discontent , give it a name, find a solution. Imo, humans don’t want to face their biggest fear: themselves. I mean wtf are we and who do we want to be?!
My rambling morning thoughts, but that’s what I saw after reading some good comments on the rise of the right , and hopefully the left.
Add.And, if we do want to find out who we are and what do we want to be,as tribe, region, country, freedom is 100% essential.
People are going to keep voting further and further right until someone listens to their demands on legal and illegal immigration. In most European countries it is the largest single issue polled. What frustrates me immensely is that so many centrist and left wing parties all over Europe have the opportunity to rein in record high immigration in a sensible and pragmatic way right now - but refuse to do so. They would rather lose the next election and hand over all control of this issue to the right, who will not use care and consideration. They will leave the ECHR and re-write their humanitarian laws to reject all asylum claimants and deport every single person in the country illegally. Refusing to listen to voters and compromise on such a major issue isn’t a principled stance. It just guarantees an even worse outcome.
I think my country of Denmark has a decent balance. I hope other European countries can find balance and compromise. This problem won’t go away on its own. It will get worse until leaders listen to voters. That’s how democracy works - especially if they disagree with the voters.
