Due to the large number of reports we’ve received about recent posts, we’ve added Rule 7 stating “No low-effort posts. This is subjective and will largely be determined by the community member reports.”
In general, we allow a post’s fate to be determined by the amount of downvotes it receives. Sometimes, a post is so offensive to the community that removal seems appropriate. This new rule now allows such action to be taken.
We expect to fine-tune this approach as time goes on. Your patience is appreciated.
Wait, is this about the posts from melonhusk@sh.itjust.works? We don’t need a new rule for that, they were spamming.
This is fine if the post is something insanely low effort.
But I do worry if this ends up being too aggressive.
One of the things that made reddit so awful is how over moderated it was.
I don’t really take issue with dozens of posts by newbies asking the same basic question over and over. I used to be one and am occasionally back there again if I start a new hobby. Hopefully newcomers don’t get pushed off by overly sensitive moderation.
It would be helpful if you could provide a hypothetical example of what is considered a “low effort” post.
Lemmy started off over moderated and has only gotten worse. Moderation here is honestly worse than Reddit already, since we can see the ridiculous comment removals and bans and their reasons.
I don’t really take issue with dozens of posts by newbies asking the same basic question over and over. I used to be one and am occasionally back there again if I start a new hobby. Hopefully newcomers don’t get pushed off by overly sensitive moderation.
I’m not sure if I agree with this, unless you need clarification on something specific the forum like nature and search should allow you to find answers to previous questions without asking it again.
But I do agree overmoderation is bad. I swear if communities start implementing a karma system…
Lemmy apps already have karma systems.
I’ve seen slightly offtopic posts deleted here, even after some interesting conversation in the comments. I think Lemmy is small, and it could help the platform if conversations and posts are preserved even if they are not 100% on topic. But I respect the work of mods, it’s their decision how they run a community, even if I don’t agree with them all time.
But just as a backup, if things take an unexpected turn, here are some similar, but much less active communities:
- !selfhosted@sh.itjust.works
- !selfhosting@slrpnk.net
- !homelab@selfhosted.forum
- !selfhosting@eviltoast.org
- !SelfHosted@europe.pub
This is also to the “low effort” posters, if you disagree with your post’s removal you can post it to other similar communities.
I’ve posted here and had it deleted. So I don’t bother.
The instance I’m a member of had an unused selfhosting comm, and I started using it. Other people did too. Thanks for the shout out.
Why? Why would you remove a post that some people deem “low effort”? People can just ignore the posts if they think it’s low effort.
More censorship and gate keeping has never been an good option.
Does this include Youtube videos? Or at least Youtube videos without a clear description and summary?
Those constant ad money farming posts really lower the quality of this sub.
Seems there are 2 kinds - video links with almost no text, just farming visits, and video links with a wall of text.
Both suck. Videos, in general, suck.
So much of what goes on here needs text, lots of it. Video is slow and cumbersome.
If the quality of the video is good, I like to see it here.
The problem is they are almost never good, as everyone can read the same info 4x faster than someone can present it (best case), and 10x faster isn’t unusual.
Source: Former technical trainer - I’ve read a lot about instructional methodologies. Video is the lowest common denominator that’s all. It can be useful for things that have a visual component, and self hosting has very little of that.
At minimum there should be a good description of what the video is about, with no clickbait.
But how would you know before watching?
“Based on the upvotes and comments” Oh then others doing the work to watch it and rate it on lemmy for you.
Imo, when a link to a video or forum or whatever is posted, then at least a summery or a discussion should be included.
What are some examples of low-effort posts? I’ve never felt that way about any posts I’ve seen here. Granted I’m not a heavy user in this community, just been a lurker, but I may be using this more as I grow my own home lab.
Agreed. If anything, I’ve seen relevant posts be removed as “not related to self-hosting” when they’re questions about stuff like certificates.
You’re right. One problem is, even though mods already have the power, specifically saying in the rules that the criteria is subjective sounds like something that a mod would make when they are tired of having to explain their moderation choices.
They can just say that it was low-effort, and problem solved. They don’t need to explain themselves, right?
But when the rules are vague, I think they’ll end up with more complaints from people who have different criteria of low-effort from the mods. This sort of interaction leads to accusations of mods power-tripping.
If the mods can nail down exactly what is low-effort, like, “X will always get removed. Z will never get removed unless it violates other rules. Y may be at risk of the moderator’s mood. You have been warned.” If they nail things down a bit more, then they will probably make things easier for themselves in the long-run than just keeping things vague.
Plus, if the rules are not vague, then people can discuss them safely when the rules are changed. When rules are vague, people will simply be upset that moderation was sprung on them, and everything will be discussed while people are upset. My belief is that people best discuss things while calm, and not while experiencing one person having power over another.
The problem is “Evil” people who see rules now know what abuse they can get by with and they have incentive to find all the weird loopholes the the rest of us wouldn’t think of. I don’t know a good answer to this.
I think having a clear understanding of what is and isnt allowed is a good thing in any scenario. I dont think making everyone afraid to post is a good solution to trolls pushing the boundaries (that they would be pushing anyways). And in any case, the mods have a final say in such matters, thats why they are there, hopefully it doesnt come to that tho.
For me, the important thing is that this is a vibrant community.
That means that from the mods’ perspectives, they don’t get too loaded down with moderation work, or need to defend themselves and create friction with the community.
It also means that when people want to contribute to the community, they’re not afraid of what the mods will say. If they post without reading the rules, like probably most people do, it’s really the poster’s fault. But if they are afraid to post even after reading the rules, then I think that has a freezing effect on the community.
As for people who are looking for loopholes, I think they’re trying to make the mods’ lives harder, and so I don’t really think they’re worth worrying too much about. They’ll probably get banned sooner or later because that is the attitude of a troll.
Just my opinion. I’ve never been a mod, and I don’t think I could handle that responsibility. I just try to be empathetic with everybody involved.
I can understand the potential problems of trying to define “low-effort post”. In contrast can guidelines be given for a “quality post”. If no guidance on either end is given it may discourage some people from posting anything. Maybe people can contribute what they see as indications of a “quality post”.
Self-hosting is inherently not low effort. This isn’t memes or shitposts. This is people helping people that are trying to help themselves, a.k.a. people making an effort. Communities rely on the discretion of mods and rules specific to the community focus. If this community didn’t have some kind of bar to meet for low effort posts it would drive away participants and contributors more interested in higher effort and more interesting topics. It gets real old seeing people ask and answer the same basic questions about Plex, Jellyfin, *arrs, and docker all the time. Worrying about if this rule will be abused seems premature. Besides (as others have pointed out) there are other communities with similar interests, if you’re that concerned that your spammy no-context YouTube video got deleted, please go try your luck elsewhere.
