edit 2: He has bought the air cooler!
He will be running the 9800X3D, which I don’t think gets hot enough to require an AIO. We are choosing between Arctic Liquid Freezer III 360 (AIO) and the Peerless Assassin 120 (air cooler)
Benefits of choosing an AIO (Arctic Liquid Freezer III) is better temperatures, nicer aesthetic. Downside of going with AIO is the possibility that it will leak/wear out over time, shorter lifespan compared to air cooler (which can pretty much last forever)
He will be getting a Lian Li case (the O11 Vision Compact) with the RGB fans set, meaning he could go with the cheaper 5 fan set instead of 8 if he decides on AIO. Combined with a decent sale on the AIO in my region, the price difference isn’t that large.
What do you guys think?
edit: Mmm the internet people seem to disagree with each other
FWIW, KISS. I built an elaborate WC setup. It was fun, looks neat, and expensive. Super-quiet and cool running. That said, as the years have gone by the WC cost of time/maintenance has been a downside. Even AIO will need some care and have a higher potential cost of failure than air cooled. Fans are easily replaceable vs having to remove and replace a pump or cooling block, or deal with a leak. Most new fans are super-quiet (as long as you don’t have one of those absurd cases with 10 fans in it) so you can enjoy gaming with a cool-running setup and no sound of a server farm running by your desk.
Air cooling is superior to AIOs. The difference in thermals isn’t worth the price, increased failure points or aesthetics.
I don’t want water in my computer, simple as that.
Water cooling is intellectually interesting to me and I love the aesthetic but I would never choose it for my build. I don’t have disposable income if something went really wrong. I also would never clean the water.
I never have to think about my air coolers, I love them.
You don’t change the water on an AIO, it’s an all-in-one. I’ve never had a leak, but I did have a pump that failed so it stopped cooling and made a terrible noise
AIO don’t have a leaking issue but overlocking isn’t really a things anymore so I view it as a waste of money imo. I do agree that it looks cleaner but all my pc builds are not displayed so outside of performance, it does not matter to me with how it looks.
Boost clocks depend on thermal headroom. Better cooling will get you better performance still, even if you aren’t manually over clocking.
A good air cooler, which is cheap, gives you all the headroom you need.
I don’t disagree. But cooling performance does impact CPU performance in some cases even without “overclocking”
And in very hot running chips, it can start to matter.
Unless you’re overlocking or just have really bad case design, either one will fair about the same. I went with an AIO purely for the aesthetic and haven’t had a single issue. Install was pretty easy too. I haven’t personally heard any horror stories of the AIO loops failing catastrophically but that’s anecdotal at best.
I’m a little out of the loop these days, and I’m not sure this applies to the newer x3d chips, so grain of salt. But I have a 5800x3d, and took the time to undervolt it (each core separately) after getting it, and it runs a whole bunch cooler without losing any performance. I have AIO on mine, but it’s generally overkill.
An AIO or air cooler aren’t as impactful as the environment in my experience. Throw your computer in the corner of a room and that AIO ain’t gonna help.
If you do go AIO, make sure you do it right.
Either case, good airflow design does wonders - air cooled or AIO.
AMD CPUs sip power compared to Intel. This is even more true for x3d CPUs. The temperature difference between a good air cooler and AIO is going to be around 2-3C and performance difference well under 1%. AIO will be significantly more expensive and much less reliable - it’s not worth it.
Edit: this is coming from someone who has a custom water cooling loop that is heavier than the rest of their PC (2 pumps, 4 thick 480mm rads outside PC case, etc - beyond silly)
Edit 2: the only valid reason to use AIO on AMD CPU is trying to squeeze it into a tiny case.
9800x3d is fine on air as lon as you get a nice cooler. I’m personally anti AIO because I don’t want to deal with the maintenance. I’m still using my NH-D14 after 15 years. Under absolute full load the CPU gets hot, but I only game on the computer so it never stays hot for long. An actually modern cooler would be plenty.
At work we have a 9950x running of a Thermalright Peerless Assassin 140 and under 100% load it cant maintain full boost speeds, but it hovers around its base clock speed.
I have been exclusively using AIOs for years now. Generally, by the time they need maintenance, its already time for a major hardware update and rebuild anyway. That is, of course, if it is serviceable. This depends on the quality of the AIO you buy, TBH. I had a first-gen Corsair AIO start to get audible air bubbles on startup, but it’s long since been recycled.
I am sure other people have some kind of horror story about an AIO leaking or something, but in general, they don’t really need to be maintained if it actually is a sealed system.
I’ve gone through an FX8120, 4560k, 4790k, 1800x, 3700x, 5800x3d, and finally 9800x3d all on the same cooler. Even if I do a big upgrade why would I want to change it if it’s working fine?
Finally this weekend it’s getting demoted to my server and I’m upgrading to a D15 G2. But that’s only because I’m upgrading my server and it’s 10 year old heatsink doesn’t work on AM5.
Air, water, AIO, whatever. If it cools well, use it. I just prefer AIOs and there really isn’t any maintenance, was my main point. There are always tradeoffs between AIO, air or a proper water rig, so there is that. (Fans are crazy quiet these days, but when I made the switch, it was mainly for noise. I always run an overclock, so my fans were always hauling ass which probably isn’t needed now.)
Ultimately, I prefer AIOs for the way airflow is managed. It’s not better or worse than air in many instances, but I like working with a radiator rather than a chonky heatsink.
I cannot disagree though: zero maintenance is better than maybe-maintenance. Like I said, it’s about tradeoffs. (I can still make my PC sound like a fucking jet engine, though. Noctua server fans kick ass.)
I’ve had an AIO for years and had no complaints, but I just bought a fan since AIO can fail more easily over time. There are more parts that can fail and water can eventually evaporate or break down the materials.
I think it depends on what the use case is. I’m using my PC as a sever that I want running 24/7. As such, I don’t want fewer points of failure and I’m concerned about potential failures when I’m not home. Whereas, if it was just a gaming PC that I only turned on while I’m playing, I might care less as I’d be able to monitor it in person easier.
Food for thought.
AIOs always start sucking air after a while. Then they basically stop working. Avoid if you can
Air coolers will simply last longer with no significant cooling penalty
This is very true nothing beats just having a ton of metal to throw at it. Had a Megahalems for 15 years with only minor dust cleaning from time to time.
Fair enough
Rule of thumb is to use the tdp and at least try to cover that with the thermal rating. 120w is your tdp and that is either a beefy air cooler or a multifan aio. These cpus do run hot but it’s by design to some extent. My tdp is 150 in the same series with a rating of 170 on the aio. Still goes up to 90 when stressed.
I just built a new PC with the same CPU and used a Scythe air cooler, specifically this one. They are relatively inexpensive but good quality. Running at 99.9% usage while compiling software packages, it topped out 80°C.
~80C is thermal throttling territory for amd cpus, FYI.
No it’s not. 95c is the target temperature on anything 7000 series and newer. Google says the 5700x throttles at 90.
Unless he’s building a custom loop because he’s really into building custom pcs, then liquid cooling isn’t worth it.
A decent heat sink on the CPU and several fans blowing correctly in the case will do just as good. The only real drawback is that they’re not as quiet under high load.
As for AIOs, it’s been a while but I doubt rather a lot that they re on par as far as price goes, and you’re going to be better off buying better (read: noctua) fans.
More/larger fans also can be ran at lower rpm’s for the same cooling and get even quieter. (And have that much more under high load.)
To the edit: you’re gonna find that there’s little more decisive than liquid vs air when it comes to building pcs. I like my liquid rig. But also, I realize most people won’t enjoy changing coolant every month.
I have a 7900X3D and the Peerless Assassin 120 worked well. I swapped for a Zalman CNPS20X because you could get it for next to nothing at the time; it’s not much better (the RGB fans look neat but it’s so big it doesn’t fit well in some cases and the fans are prone to chattering noises at specific speeds)
The benefit I can imagine for an AIO is that it reduces cramping around the CPU, so you can essily release RAM or the GPU slot clip. But I suspect VRM cooling suffers; some vendors made an add-on fan to compensare IIRC.
I got an air cooler just because I had 3 die on 6 years, as the pump on each went.
Went back to noctua
I use the cooler master hyper 212 for mine. Works fine.
