I’m so tired of it all that I am having trouble even caring anymore, and I’m simply disheartened by every corner of the globe and with every type of people. If the few states like China who have the capacity to challenge it are so self-centered and worried about their own lineage that they allow vast populations of people to become either subjugated or eradicated without even attempting to step in, then I have no hope that our species will survive when analyzing the rest of it. It’s clear that nobody with means is really willing to do anything serious about it and at this point I feel like we’re all just watching the final consumption of the world by capitalism and people really don’t care.
Frankly I don’t think any of us will make it. Only the people the furthest under the boot really have the will, yet since they have zero means, nothing can change. People don’t really care about defeating capitalism or white supremacy, and most refuse to overlook cultural differences to collectivize strongly enough to make an impact. Further, the environment will wipe us out long before capitalism is dismantled anyway, so for all intents and purposes, it seems like it’s already over. The curse of short human lifespans means that most don’t care since they feel the inevitability of it all given the time they have, and by the time the average person even becomes conscious enough of their condition to feel the hunger for change, their biological limitations make it feel pointless. Since most see this life as the only chance they have, why throw it away on making ripples into an ocean? May as well let someone else do that and enjoy what tiny corner you’ve carved while you can, and let it burn.
This is the most difficult realization / feeling I’ve ever had, far more than any structural or systemic elucidation in my political and ideological growth. Maybe it’s just that I’m a pessimist and feel miserable today and about what’s happening to Venezuela and Cuba and Palestine and Congo and Sudan and etc. etc. But I can’t shake the feeling that this is all pointless and going nowhere. Trying to stay positive seems sisyphean. The human condition and psychological barriers seem too strong and too embedded, and I fear that no awakening is enough to really push us over the edge of real change or challenge. And the environmental catastrophe is inevitable, since capitalism spurs it.
I just can’t see a way forward and I don’t know what that makes me anymore. Maybe nothing.
firstly i just want to say that i don’t want to invalidate your feelings in any way, because they are a real and meaningful phenomenon. i think it takes courage to share something like this in a forum where people may disagree with you. i reiterate what other commenters said about processing your feelings: doing things like taking a break, going on a walk, spending time with loved ones or things, and working within your community are all potential ways to process those emotions and allow them to pass peacefully.
my main concern is with your thoughts and ideological framework that led you to feel this way in the first place. we all have to be constantly vigilant in combating liberalism, first and foremost in our own minds and thought processes. i think we all make errors in this regard, because of our upbringing and various sets of material conditions. personally i tend to make errors more as it relates to my ideology of the self more than my ideology of society. but in any case, since it’s always easier to point out errors others have made rather than your own, i want to point out a few of your errors in hopes of it improving your feelings in the future. in effect, i want to give you reason to be optimistic, rather than just telling you to feel that way.
Only the people the furthest under the boot really have the will, yet since they have zero means, nothing can change.
i think a central idea in marxism is understanding that relations of exploitation contain within themselves the seeds of their own destruction, or change. within the bourgeoisie/proletariat contradiction, the proletariat is in fact given many means with which to effect change. it is forced to become disciplined in order to work for the bourgeoisie, but that disciplined work can be turned against the exploitative relation itself. the proletariat is implicitly organized by means of its organization in relation to the means of production itself, giving it form. and, it has the labor expertise to both effect change and build socialism. it would require further elaboration to explain why, but this is true for all forms of exploitative relations. this is why, for example, acts of strength by exploiters often indicate an underlying weakness, such as the recent acts against venezuela.
And the environmental catastrophe is inevitable, since capitalism spurs it.
this is another way in which capitalism sows the seeds of its own destruction: globalization + overproduction leads to decreasing material conditions for the exploited, giving them more reason (remember, they already have the means) to change society. and even in the worst case, in which capitalism creates a natural world and ecology that is significantly less habitable for human life, it is still destroying itself: because socialism is fundamentally more efficient and effective than capitalism, there would be a point at which socialism is the only viable way to sustain human life. socialism is the best means to wade through the rushing waters of catastrophe, and build something in its aftermath.
wherever there is failure, there is the potential and means for success. whenever night dominates, it’s only a matter of time until sunrise occurs. communism (and socialism) will win because it is more stable, more efficient, more conscious, and more correct. that global socialism is the only viable path forward for humanity indicates that it is only a matter of time until it becomes reality. hope you feel better, comrade.
I appreciate your response. In my depression and miserable pessimism I know that you’re right on a theoretical level, in that the means of capitalist destruction are sown within itself, yet it’s not easy to experience that comfort when you watch swaths of people get swept away in it’s slow dissolution as a byproduct. Yet that is the way it is.
I take breaks from time to time, though I admit that I always end up feeling guilty about it. As if all other comrades are carrying my weight, my solidarity, on their shoulders. It makes me feel like a liberal in a sense, as if I’m pretending these things aren’t happening, and if when my very eyes aren’t viewing the atrocities that happen in my own world and aren’t actively recognizing them, it’s as if I’m suppressing the awareness of their plight.
That probably is a far too intricate and self-important of a position, but it’s how I’ve always felt about it, because I’ve thought that if we don’t all feel this way, then solidarity only weakens. Maybe some become numb to it, but then that just makes one try to use empathy and solidarity strategically–as if to balance one’s level of pain in order to appropriately use it and not become numb to it all. But that feels morally abusive on some level, yet it seems like something that emerges after a point.
I do feel better just writing it out, though.
glad you feel better writing it out! i feel like journaling is definitely a useful and viable method of emotional processing, it’s something that i use from time to time
i think the challenge there is to simultaneously accept that a) your ability to take a break is derived from a place of privilege, but also that b) your need to take a break is in a sense derived from that same privilege: you would be more resolved, disciplined, and “numbed” without that privilege. for those of us in the global north it’s a matter of gaining those skills that are necessary for revolutionary movement, that those without privilege are forced to gain because of their lack thereof. but, sometimes it’s too much all at once and we need to take breaks; i don’t think there’s any shame in reacting honestly to your needs. in the same way that china must look out for itself first and foremost, we must individually look out for ourselves and our health so that we can organize and build socialism.
i think it also helps me to try and see the forest for the trees in situations like this. liberalism encourages us to see one setback as necessarily indicating the certainty of future setbacks, or to approach things one-dimensionally. but in real-life developments and transitions there are always small-scale oscillations, zig-zags, and the like. and, the more setbacks that occur, the more likely progress is to be made for a variety of reasons.
in any case, not to invalidate your feelings but i don’t think you need to feel guilt or shame for addressing your needs, whatever they are and however you see fit to address them. in my personal experience guilt due to privilege is a dangerous feeling because you can then feel guilty for having the privilege to feel guilty in the first place, leading to a negative spiral downwards that results in inaction and other negative consequences. to me that’s more indicative of liberalism than taking a break to address your needs is.
We of the older generation may not live to see the decisive battles of this coming revolution. But I can, I believe, express the confident hope that the youth which is working so splendidly in the socialist movement of Switzerland, and of the whole world, will be fortunate enough not only to fight, but also to win, in the coming proletarian revolution.
- Vladimir Lenin, January 22nd, 1917
The revolution will not be televised.
- Gil Scott-Heron
The human condition and psychological barriers seem too strong and too embedded
What do you mean by “the human condition”? Because in this context, it’s sounding to me like a belief about humanity that is steeped in western nihilism and a static, cynical view about human behavior.
May as well let someone else do that and enjoy what tiny corner you’ve carved while you can, and let it burn.
This is individualism taken to its conclusion.
People don’t really care about defeating capitalism
The USSR, China, Cuba, Vietnam, the DPRK, just to name some of the more successful and better known efforts.
Maybe it’s just that I’m a pessimist and feel miserable today
That may play a part, but I don’t think it’s just that. I think it’s that coupled with lingering beliefs from the western imperialist system, which will follow you if you don’t challenge and dismantle them, even if your allegiance changes on paper.
Trying to stay positive seems sisyphean.
You don’t have to stay blindly positive. Positivity can come from organizing in person and if for some reason, that is not viable where you live, it can come from learning and growing with others online as well. The idealist version of positivity goes something like “be positive even while you are being lashed”, which is absurd. Fight back when you are being lashed, but where possible, in an organized way. Positivity will come when you know others stand beside you. This is one of the reasons to emphasis the existing efforts in the world. Even if you are not part of a given AES state or self-determining state project, you can still find some solace in knowing they fight for the same cause.
That said, I don’t want you to take this as admonishment or “toughen up” style response. Only as an attempt to remind and ground. Rest is critical as is compassion and understanding. And it’s not just physical activity that can wear a person down. Ruminating loops can do it too. So it’s good that you’ve shared, so that you can try to break the loop and get a chance to rest.
Thanks for your response and closing remark.
-What do you mean by “the human condition”? Because in this context, it’s sounding to me like a belief about humanity that is steeped in western nihilism and a static, cynical view about human behavior.
What I mean by the human condition is, the innate psychological weaknesses that humans suffer under systems and beneath myriad layers of structures (political, familial, social, existential), such that it is a rarity when one becomes free or strong-willed enough to sacrifice what meager conveniences they’ve been awarded (by unintended circumstance in most cases) by the dominant system in order to risk them for something that is so uncertain (e.g., political shift or trusting in strangers to uphold their end of the bargain), of which has largely been demonstrated as untrue by the world around them. In other words, for people to uphold what is most difficult while living in contradiction. This may rest in western nihilism, though western nihilism has made a tangible influence upon broad society, whether anyone wishes it or not. I don’t know. All I know is what I feel and observe.
-This is individualism taken to its conclusion.
Yes, it is. I don’t disagree. The point of me summarizing it as such is that because it is the floor, I find, unfortunately, that most people in modern society reside here. It’s simply a disheartening reality that I have trouble with.
-The USSR, China, Cuba, Vietnam, the DPRK, just to name some of the more successful and better known efforts.
In a way, I suppose. They’re still subjected to the influence and impact of capitalism, and it is inescapable for each one. They’ve reduced it, perhaps changed the internal application of it, but it is impossible for them to operate without it. The deficiencies and difficulties Cuba experiences is explicitly because of it, despite their ideological split from it.
-That may play a part, but I don’t think it’s just that. I think it’s that coupled with lingering beliefs from the western imperialist system, which will follow you if you don’t challenge and dismantle them, even if your allegiance changes on paper.
Perhaps, though I don’t really feel or think I have lingering beliefs from western imperialism. It seems to me that my positions are so anti- that it’s almost become an obstacle; that by my virtual extrication from such beliefs that I’ve gone full circle in some bizarre sense. As if I have lost all of my convictions because I’ve held the wheel to the left for too long, and I’m constantly curbed by a sense of dialectical realism. Maybe I’m just full of shit, I don’t know.
In any case, thanks for your analysis.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
What I mean by the human condition is, the innate psychological weaknesses that humans suffer under systems and beneath myriad layers of structures (political, familial, social, existential), such that it is a rarity when one becomes free or strong-willed enough to sacrifice what meager conveniences they’ve been awarded (by unintended circumstance in most cases) by the dominant system in order to risk them for something that is so uncertain (e.g., political shift or trusting in strangers to uphold their end of the bargain), of which has largely been demonstrated as untrue by the world around them. In other words, for people to uphold what is most difficult while living in contradiction. This may rest in western nihilism, though western nihilism has made a tangible influence upon broad society, whether anyone wishes it or not. I don’t know. All I know is what I feel and observe.
Right, but “innate psychological weakness” and a focus on will to break free sounds more like idealism than dialectics. Dialectical materialism tells us that, as chinawatcherwatcher put it better than I can reword, “relations of exploitation contain within themselves the seeds of their own destruction, or change.” So it is not will that makes the difference, even though that does have an impact (else we’d be saying that people are mere passengers) but that it is a factor along with external factors and that both of these are always interacting with each other and developing in one direction or another.
One of the reasons that “breaking free” from it is rarer in the imperial core than, say, in the global south, is because the material conditions put people in the imperial core in a position of exploiter (whether they consent to it or not) via the exploitative relationships of empire. This allows them to, on average, experience somewhat better conditions than the most destitute in the world and as long as those conditions don’t go under a low enough bar for quality of life, many can linger there without a strong motive for change. Though I think with the empire in decline, this is already changing and could more rapidly change with how things are shifting under the mask off management of the Trump administration.
Another of the reasons is the narrative atop it (I believe what some term “superstructure”). This narrative feeds individualism, imperialism, and capitalism day in and day out. Working alongside the conditions to try to steer people toward support for empire and away from liberation.
And then there is of course the direct and indirect state violence (“political power grows out of the barrel of a gun”). This is and has been used to assassinate, imprison, and otherwise try to silence those who do resist. And there are often more who have resisted than people realize when they investigate beyond imperialist media.
The weight of all of this can be overwhelming if taken all at once as a thing to get past. But so can anything in life if we look at it as a challenge all at once. Quantitative leads to qualitative (another thing dialectical materialism teaches us).
AES states are subject to capitalist influence, yes, but they have also made great strides in spite of it. There’s a lesson from struggle that someone brought up recently. It goes something like: The USSR in its infancy has this moment where Germany of the time is demanding certain things of them and Lenin chooses to make a deal, rather than risk a confrontation when the USSR is not yet ready. Instead of this leading to a devastating loss, it is a temporary problem which leads to the USSR growing strong enough to overcome it.
The point of me bringing it up here is, don’t take every seeming capitulation on the part of an AES state, or liberation movement, as an inability to develop the world beyond capitalism. Socialist China has done an (I think astounding) job of engaging with the capitalist world economy in a way similar to that story about the USSR and in doing so, is now positioned where it and its anti-imperialist allies are rising and empire is declining. It is perhaps not yet in a position where it is believed that empire can be defeated with troops without devastating loss, but that doesn’t mean the day can never come that the capability is there.
There is even a term someone coined, that you may have heard before, that I think is relevant here: capitalist realism. “It is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.” But this does not mean the belief is true. It’s an observation about the psychological grip that the status quo has on some people.
I got a difficult exam tomorrow best not doomscroll and read depressing posts
First of all, if you believe you might be struggling with depression and you aren’t taking medication yet, consider consulting a psychiatrist. I say this as someone who is currently taking medication for depression. I know it clouded my own thinking in ways that seem absurd looking back.
The empire’s growing need for militarism and showing overwhelming force against countries that can’t fight back is a reflex of geopolitical and geoeconomical weakness. Those areas are precisely where China is advancing, and the CPC can’t jeopardize the well-being of over 1.4 billion citizens to station gunboats on the other side of the world, which would help Venezuela’s situation nowhere near as much as you think.
Of course you are feeling miserable right now, that is a natural reaction to recent events, all of us here in lemmygrad are. However, we can’t throw our hands up and let go of dialectical materialism. Despair is useless for us, let the unpunished crimes fuel burning hatred towards the empire and work for a future where it will fall.
This is not blind optimism, it will still take a very long time and we will see many victims suffer with no way to help them. Even then, I know rationally that the enemy cannot win in the end, because they operate using the sociological equivalent of flat earth theory.
Negative news always overtake positive news. Especially in world affairs. And yes, experiencing a time of crises tends to generate a lot of negative news, a lot of tragedies.
Especially for us, Marxists, who understand that there’s a better way to do things, who know that these tragedies could be easily resolved. But we live in a world where the dictatorship of the bourgeoise has dominated, and it’s easy to feel like a solitary voice. It’s equally easy to doubt your own identity.
Being in contact with negative things all the time tends to generate the worst emotions in you. This is what we call toxicity. Sometimes we can’t stop the toxicity of others. But in this case you can stop the toxicity yourself: take a break from world politics. Go and enjoy yourself. Take a walk in the woods. Sit in a park and read a light book. Do things worthwhile and that remind you of who you want to be. Volunteer to help people. Take part in community actions. Balance out the negativity. Seek positive things happening in the world. Find the successes of Marxism, that happen every day all over the world, even at the heart of capitalism, yet they rarely get mentioned.
When you are reinvigorated, when you rediscover your revolutionary optimism, you can turn back on the regular world politics.
I can’t offer you any other advice. I feel by reading you, that you need to hear this and understand that you are not the only one feeling this way. It comes with the “job”. We need to learn how to manage our mental well-being so we do not despair.
I’ll leave you with something I heard from Parenti, quoting Gramci:
“Speak truth to power, mobilise, organise, never be sad, remember what the great Italian communist Antonio Gramsci said: “You have a pessimism of the mind, but an optimism of the will.” You see the worst, you consider the worst, you work against it, but in here [shows the heart], you work for what is freedom, for what is justice, for what is right. It is our destiny, it is our future. The future itself depends upon it.”
PS. If you haven’t seen Yellow Parenti, go find it and watch it. When I’m in a similar state as you, I always find it encouraging.
I think it can change but that requires organisation. I’d like to see a propaganda campaign comparing trump to bush/cheney. I want more people to understand geopolitics because it’s clear that trump is only targeting Venezuela and Greenland to go after Russia. This is really bad. In the future there will be a president who’s worse than trump, I’m predicting this.
Idk man its not fully about us making it but hopefully humanity making it as well.
“Trying to stay positive seems sisyphean.” Call me sisyphus cuz im bout to sisy my phus all over the world-- i mean you have to grow a thick skin if you are a socialist and kinda be a little sociopathic** cuz any amount of empathy/emotional weakness does fuck you up
**Edit for future readers I DID NOT MEAN BECOME A SOCIOPATH I MISUSED THE TERM. What I meant was have a life outside of socialism so negative events affect you less. Too much empathy and emotional weakness does incapacitate people, so take care of yourself before you go out and try to “save the world”.
Pic of kitty for example will help with depression
i mean you have to grow a thick skin if you are a socialist and kinda be a little sociopathic cuz any amount of empathy/emotional weakness does fuck you up
No, this is like the opposite of what you need. This is just toxic masculinity but with some words swapped out to make it about socialism.
I mean how do you cope with hearing about all the L’s and absolutely zero W’s? Idk about the toxic masculinity thing though, what i said was just dont let global news destroy your mental health, learn to care but not feel down 24/7. If things and people get under your skin easily you will represent the movement negatively and scare people away fron socialism. Not to mention all the side effects of depression which will also make you a very fragile and easily demotivated revolutionary. I mean thats not even the worst part of depression, take care of yourself before you act like a hero and end up harming yourself.
Picture of cat cuz funny.
Thanks for explaining your thought process more in this and the other comment. In general, yes, learning to look after ourselves and each other’s mental health is important. My reason for pushing back is I don’t want people’s takeaway to be that they should become more cold or detached as a response. It is hard to deal with all the bad news sometimes. It’s one of the reasons I appreciate the posts on the grad about China’s positive developments. It’s important that we not get lost only in one negative vector of news and lose sight of what all is happening. And yes, it is important to have more to our lives than, like, reading news and discussing it from a communist standpoint. Those who want to organize full time, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that in terms of mental health. But internet reading and posting alone does not make for a well-rounded person. Ultimately, we need sources of human connection in our lives, not just detached, academic discussion.
I think @SigmaStalin@lemmygrad.ml is saying that we shouldn’t let the situation get the better of us. Being sociopathic isn’t about cheating or manipulating people, most of the time it’s just about seeing the situation and not letting it negatively affect your emotions.
Being sociopathic isn’t about cheating or manipulating people
By definition, sociopathy is about being anti-social (not to be confused with being asocial, which is more just avoidant of social interaction). It is absurd to try to rewrite the definition of sociopathy into something entirely different and nice-sounding.
seeing the situation and not letting it negatively affect your emotions.
There are two ways I can think to look at this:
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You’re describing denial/repression of emotions. Everyone has emotions and we have to learn how to regulate and process them. Denying or repressing them does not help anything.
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You’re describing regulation of emotions, which has nothing to do with sociopathy and has to do with acknowledging and processing what you feel.
I didnt mean like become anti social, I meant dont let negative events affect you emotionally too much. I shouldnt have used “sociopath”, thats on me.
What I am describing isnt surpressing emotions rather having a life outside of socialism so that you dont get invested too much in the first place. I should have and could have worded it better
Being anti-social is a good thing though. I want people to be angry and see trump for what he is, a war monger with an ambition to rule the world. Yes it’s important to offer alternatives but you still have to bring down the existing political structures to achieve your aim.
I don’t believe in suppressing emotions, I mean that people should be less shocked by things especially when these shocking things happen all the time.
Nononono being anti social is not a good thing
Being anti-social is a good thing though.
It’s not. Opposing a system of power and being anti-social are not the same thing. Anti-social in the context of conditions where revolution can form would be, at best, adventurist and aimless violence.
I want people to be angry and see trump for what he is, a war monger with an ambition to rule the world.
The problem goes far beyond Trump. He is the current face of the western empire, but the empire has been doing horrible things long before him and will after him if it’s not stopped.
I don’t believe in suppressing emotions, I mean that people should be less shocked by things especially when these shocking things happen all the time.
I mean, I would rather people always find brutality shocking than accept it as normal, but if you mean in the context of people acting like brutality began yesterday and has never been seen before, then sure. Liberals have a tendency to act like history began yesterday when colonialism has been going on for hundreds of years.
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Yeah I’m done being optimistic at all. I resent everyone that is fighting for a better future because most of us are just too up our own ass to see the big picture.
I think people generally don’t actually care about the evils of the world. They only want to exploit these problems for their own gain. It’s all anyone knows.
I am exhausted and depressed. I give up the fight against myself, constantly looking to build faith in people against my better judgement and against my most natural compulsions. I don’t believe that centering community will slowly repair the world because we have too few shared experiences. I will not continue deluding myself just so I can pour every last bit of me into something that won’t grow, won’t learn, won’t even stand up for itself.
I think people generally don’t actually care about the evils of the world. They only want to exploit these problems for their own gain. It’s all anyone knows.
Individualism is not and has never been universal. If you want to see the big picture, then look more at collective cultures now and historically.
Bro used to rob banks
Then went on to lead the biggest socialist country ever
In a country so backwards it would make any country look like a utopia today.
People certainly like to play their role and say whatever it takes to please their boss and the people they work with. The mass psychology of the population is too predictable. Where is the weak point to exploit to change these problems? I suppose it gets worse before it gets better.
