Here is my post from 1 month ago:
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/61744315
When posted the price was for used:
28 TB $449.99 Price per TB: $16.07
Now: 28 TB $482.99 Price per TB: $17.24
For used༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
WD should run their business as they like. Given the simmering ai crash I’d make sure to get payed upfront. As for the other vendors, this is their chance to pick up market share.
Do your part to make ai unviable by salting their ai algos. Feed them false info & make junk ai requests.
The sooner this bubble pops, the better.
Remember: the tools they give you for free today will make the chains they use on you tomorrow.
I’m not sure feeding more misinformation to our systems and society is that good of an idea. I don’t think it’d be an effective influencing strategy either.
Sounds convenient after not long ago they cut production on the back of slowing demand.
“AI” more like thinly veiled business cartel on the back of low to no chances of law enforcement and regulation.
& Chinese Hardwareanufactures are rubbing their hands waiting for the opportunity
Fuck AI
I’m getting distinct “fire sale” vibes from all of this.
Oh my god we’re having a FIRE sale
Oh when will China start making HDDs and SSDs and GPUs and CPUs
PLEASE China PLEASE flood the market with cheap, top shelf computer parts that will force Western corporations to lower their prices or go bankrupt when they don’t
They do make hardware in most of those categories, actually, but they don’t sell much of it direct to consumer in the West. And unfortunately, the way things are going, they’re going to be able to get better prices for it from the AI-entranced idiots too.
I had an ExcelStor hard drive in the past and it was the most reliable drive I’ve ever had. I normally replace them when they die but that one never did, I just ended up retiring it when its capacity was no longer worth the electric cost to keep it running.
They‘ll just make it with secret phone-home spying and backdoors.
E: what‘s this? All these folks either saying the US does it or skipping past all the phone-home spyware China includes in devices? Guess that means cheaper spying hardware is ok then?
Also it is a bit easier to de-spyware chinese devices.
Well if the choice is between cheap spying hardware and expensive spying hardware…
Sooo, same as right now, but with way less possibility to be used against me? Sign me up!
For now, once China becomes the dominant power, they will certainly abuse it as much as the USA do.
Like they haven’t already done that in Asia?
Sure, not just world wide like the USA currently.
Even if that happens (which is not an inevitability, since China historically has been doing things quite differently from the US), it is no worse than status quo. Until then, unless you are an active threat to China, and are planning on visiting it, you don’t have to worry about it.
Two wrongs make a right?
It seems to be that you’re mistaken, the NSA and Snowden aren’t Chinese, they’re from the USA
So basically the consumer market is screwed until the AI bubble bursts and manufacturers (GPUs, RAM, HDDs, etc.) can rebalance their production lines back to the pre-AI division of enterprise vs consumer product.
That’s about the size of things, yes.
In 2030 you will own nothing.
And you will be happy.
I wish I believed the happy part
I think the happy comes with the unsaid “or else”
You be happy or you be soylent.
By 2030 my game “Backups” will in playing time surpass my remaining life expectancy lol
I have a very long breath to dive this through.
No kidding, my 24tb hdd entirely full of GoG launchers has everything handled.
Heh, that applies to most of my idiot peers but not me!
I see the writing on the wall and I’m fighting back every way I can.
As workers, we are majorly screwed no matter what happens. Either AI/Robotics takes off, and creates a permanent 50% unemployment class, which MAGA will solve by exchanging basic subsistence needs like shelter and water in work camps, where we will be leased out to corporations as slaves, under the 13th Amendment. Also a good place for any dissenters, journalists, attorneys and judges who won’t go along, etc.
Or maybe the bubble will pop, and we’ll have a repeat of 2008, except 100 times worse.
No matter what happens, the citizens are going to take it in shorts.
Rather US centric view there. What’ll happen to the majority of the world’s population?
I can’t speak to what the rest of the world might do. Some countries may choose to prohibit fully automated operations.
I just know that in America, any chance to mitigate the damage caused by widespread adoption of automation like fast food operations, will be completely dismissed under a MAGA administration.
Dems should introduce a “Robot Tax” which at least makes up for the lost tax that the now unemployed employee would have been paying. Otherwise we have unemployment rise sharply, as tax collections shrink sharply.
I was just speaking to a MAGA business acquaintance, and HE brought up the idea of the Robot Tax, calling it stupid. When I pointed out the tax situation, he just said “Taxes should be illegal, they’re immoral.” As if MAGA hadn’t given up on morals long ago. He doesn’t have a problem with the morality of completely ending an entire industry’s employment base, just to increase profits for a billion dollar company.
“Why aren’t people reproducing anymore?”
Get a pet, a small dog, or a couple of cats. Seriously. I’m not saying that they’ll replace the emotional connection with children, but they come close.
I’m many ways, a pet is even better than a child.
Do you think that this time the lesson will stick? Will we stop lionizing rich, lazy, smug fucks who’s protein would be more useful as fertilizer for our crops?
We have to MAKE it stick. We are at a point of no return. We have to take back control of our country, and stop trusting politicians to do right by us. They have proven over and over that they won’t.
And a major part of it will be recalibrating our relationship with the wealthy. They think their money has bought them control of anything they want, and we have to HARSHLY disabuse them of that notion. We control and regulate THEM, not the other way around. They will do what’s best for this nation, or their fortunes will be re-allocated to better uses.
We can’t kick the can down the road any further. Time to crush the can.
It sounds like we are in agreement that examples must be made. A hot stove is a powerful teacher, and seeing a conspecific or two get their fingers burned to a cinder will serve that cause well.
I am sure you will be able to subscribe to use a share along with hundreds of other people for 1 computer at $19.99 a month going forward.
Haven’t seen anyone else ask this question, so I will. What on earth does an AI data center need all of this storage for?
The only significant use of AI is for text generation to my knowledge. Video gen is the only thing that takes up any significant space, and current models can only produce short video clips before they go off the rails. Also, very few people are interested in video gen. It’s an expensive toy without much real world utility. Is there something I’m missing? Are these AI companies planning to scrape every video off the net and store them independently for training?
Booking out this much HDD capacity would only make sense to me if 5 TikTok or YouTube competitors all came onto the scene at once. Not AI. AI needs fast, parallelized compute and high performance memory to hold the models it’s running. Text slop requires negligible storage.
They want to log ALL user data in the world. Every convo you ever had with the ai, in text or audio, images video, etc.
Caching. I’m guessing they download the internet to large storage arrays and then run neural network learning on them. Its probable they download all videos too and transcribe them later. So its not so much used for hosting content, but for teaching models.
It may be a little tinfoil hat like, but you cannot convince me that these companies are shoving AI in literally everything, buying all the hardware in existence, and building data centets on land that no one wants them at, just to “make a better ai for the consumer.” I believe this is an attempt at hardcore tracking and surveillence.
I think it’s a combination of that and the worry that there will be one winning ubercorp that practically merges with the US Government.
I mean, they are all pushing all their chips in at the same time. It’s like they know it’s now or never.
And govs are pushing it because it’s yet another arms race.
The logical course of action is to collectively just not do AI. But you can’t prevent your adversaries from doing such, so it ends up being like some sort of prisoner’s dilemma.
I mean, they are all pushing all their chips in at the same time. It’s like they know it’s now or never.
Even if they didn’t, they probably don’t want to seem like they’re falling behind, so once one person goes all in, so do the others.
Unfortunately the most refined usage, and money dumped sector of Ai by far is image recognition
Its where all the money from Amazon and others has been dumped (Flock Surveillance, Amazon Ring, FedEx Trucks, Wal~Mart and your choice of store)
Surveillance, ALPR, Facial recognition, gait recognition, etc. It takes a massive amount of data
Go see how much space you need if you want to secure data from 10,000 cameras at 480p/720p/1080p for a few weeks, let alone a year or two
Gotcha, wasn’t thinking about surveillance. We are the social credit system – China ain’t got shit on our authoritarian future.
This is the plan. They want us to rent virtual machines from them. No buy, only rent. You will own nothing, think of the shareholders and be happy, no….proud, you are here for their benefit.
OnlyPhones is the future they want. Walled gardens and highly addictive apps and subscriptions and micro transactions. Freedom and real compute power will be locked away in their servers. And the top of the line phones are already expensive enough that pretty much everyone that has one is on a payment plan for it
That argument always befuddled me. There will be a saturation point of AI data centers when there’s enough equipment already installed and ready to use by these over bloated behemoth corporations. Once that’s over or when the market hopefully pops, the demand for memory should have a steep decline. With their cash cow tapped out, WD and all the other memory manufacturers would then have to go back to consumers they previously fucked over to sell their new production stock. I doubt it’ll be at the prices we saw a year ago but once enough memory hits the consumer market for a while, prices should start to dip back down.
Regardless of whether the bubble bursts, the massive amount of compute in these data centers won’t go away. It will be up for rent when this AI training falls out of fashion.
Why would a chip maker try to predict the market when they can make contracts for years worth of production?
If the manufacturers never go back to producing the useful consumer hardware, we would be forced to rent this data center compute.
Smells like cloud gaming.
I uh…was not quite expecting that.
Those are some big ear muffs
Absolutely massive
They’re huuuge… trunks of land!
The boobs really sell it.
Haha this is hilarious
XD
Are all these companies going to go bankrupt when the AI bubble pops and their products flood the market?
They’d only go bankrupt if they were spending the capital to increase capacity and were left holding the bag. And nobody’s interested in doing that.
Issue is that the production is for server gear not consumer. So it’s U2 and other connectors rather than SATA.
Same goes for RAM it’s ECC and won’t work in normal consumer PCs (AMD has like unofficial support)
Unbuffered ECC DIMMs can be used as-is even on PCs not supporting ECC
Registered DIMMs can be unsoldered and the RAM chips reused in a pinch converting them to unbuffered DIMMs I suppose?
But reports of manufacturing capacity being moved to HBM will not benefit consumers if the bubble bursts.
I guess I’ll have to buy one of those racks when the bubble pops. Just add an LED strip on the outside and a gaming GPU on the inside. Surely they support PCIe?
Oddly enough ECC used to be quite common for consumer hardware…I had an old Mac desktop in the late 90s/early 00s with ECC memory. But at some point it was decided that consumers don’t want to pay the extra $ for error-free RAM and mobos largely dropped support.
Edit: reading up on it the G5 (which I had) required ECC memory
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Eh, the market will adapt.
I’ve been looking at components on AliExpress. Even now, there’s lots of X99-based motherboards with LGA2011-3 sockets that can take both regular DDR4 (with some limitations) and ECC DDR4.
But the descriptions are quite hard to understand, and they are apparently quite picky about which RAM will work with them.I could get a combo of one of those motherboards with 2 Intel Xeon E5-2680 V4 CPUs (2.4GHz, 3.3GHz turbo, 28 cores, 56 threads in total) (hey, a dual CPU motherboard) for €120. And it’s got 8 RAM slots. So 32GB just with cheap 4GB sticks.
So that’s why consumer drives and ram are not affected by the price rise! /s
They’re saying that even when it bursts and there’s all these components laying around, they’ll still be useless for consumers.
I had laptops with ecc, cheapest ram I ever bought (used). If there is a way …
We might dine well on used datacenter hard drives in the coming years.
The AI bubble is starting to pop. All of these companies have made hardware and data center investments far beyond what is needed or can be sustained. The debt is piling up and they are scrambling to justify the immense build out. Musk allowing porn and CSAM on Grock for paid users , Chat GPT pushing commercials, Microslop putting copilot in everything and forcing adoption. Oracles server utilization remains low, Etc. etc.
They now need to show immense growth and adoption in order to keep getting loans or justify burning cash to their shareholders.
Chat GPT and Oracle will be the first to fall, then xAI etc. Google and Microslop have other revenue sources that can weather the storm. But they won’t continue their massive investments.
I’m pretty sure the massive buildout is for training new models not for compute power for end users. Their justification is they need more compute to get the superhuman level intelligence AIs that they have been claiming. So if that pans out their probably gonna be fine, but seems unlikely that’ll pan out how they want it to
It’s the grift that keeps on grifting. How long can it keep going
Broadly speaking, yes, and it’ll keep going until they run out of money. However, I think there is a very small chance that one of the companies is able to make a breakthrough probably with a different kind of architecture than our current LLMs that does get us to models that make genuine discoveries and breakthroughs.
Very unlikely though.
At which point the government will step in because they will have become too big to fail
Partially correct. They’ll step in because they signed contracts and have moved AI under the umbrella of National Security. Brockman donated $25m back in September. Trump signed Project Genesis in November. So all these hardware companies feel pretty good because it’ll be backed by taxpayers.
