• Buffalox@lemmy.world
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    24 hours ago

    Unfortunately the EU has no say

    Actually we do, when Trump last time threatened EU, EU suspended the ratification process of the trade deal, and Trump IMMEDIATELY pulled back.
    EU has lots of options to retaliate against USA, for instance tax on American IT services is a very high ranking one.
    Just Denmark alone supply 70% of insulin to USA. And handles 30% of container cargo to USA. This was revealed recently because of Trump threats against Greenland, which is part of the Kingdom of Denmark.
    USA is far from as independent as they like to pretend, they have dependencies even on a tiny country like Denmark of only 6 million citizens.
    EU has given many admissions to USA under Trump, but patience is running out.

      • tomiant@piefed.social
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        60 minutes ago

        America breaks its own economy, EU crashes with them, mass unemployment and depression follows, right wing extremists swoop in and seize power blaming immigrants, and swear fealty to the MAGA empire. Complete conjecture of course but just something to consider.

    • ozymandias117@lemmy.world
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      23 hours ago

      I like the option of not acknowledging US copyrights, patents, or trademarks for a minimum of one year

      Let’s see how quickly the oligarchs attack Trump

      • atzanteol@sh.itjust.works
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        15 hours ago

        They could just start with not enforcing the anti-circumvention clause of the us dmca.

        Let there be jail-broken iPhones with European owned app stores.

      • The_v@lemmy.world
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        20 hours ago

        All existing U.S. patents, trademarks, and copyrights are are permanently invalid. Gotta put some teeth into it.

    • testaccount372920@piefed.zip
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      23 hours ago

      I think patience has already run out. It is rather a calculated approach of identifying what does and what doesn’t depend on the USA, and setting up alternatives for those things that do depend on the USA for example through trade deals (Mercosur, India) and investing in independent tech (funding open source projects, governments moving to native tech alternatives).

      In the past year the EU has found out that it depends scarily much on the USA, but also that it can be more independent than expected while also having serious economic leverage.

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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        23 hours ago

        I agree, it’s a game of minimizing the damage. But at some point, there may be a desire to teach Trump a lesson.
        According to game theory, you definitely need to shut the bully down thoroughly at some point. We have not done that yet. Even if we are the weaker party, we need to do this:

        https://phys.org/news/2023-06-game-theory-bullies.html

        Losing patience IMO is the point where we take the lesson from game theory, and do something to retaliate that harm USA and Trump.
        In this case, what game theory dictates is also occurring as a natural human trait. But it takes courage.

        • cynar@lemmy.world
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          36 minutes ago

          The problem with applying that part of game theory here is it makes several assumptions.

          The biggest is that the bigger party are playing for maximisation, rather than just to “win”. That is very much not the game with trump.

          The second is the assumption that there is only 1 game in play at a time. America could cause devastating economic damage, if it went full tantrum. Europe has noticed how vulnerable they are to that sort of action. They need to patch the holes before playing hardball.

          Under these assumptions, taking fairly meaningless hits to buy time makes sense. Pull the wolf’s teeth, before challenging it to bite you.

          • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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            24 minutes ago

            No game theory account for such scenarios too. The ones not playing by the rules are normally psychopaths and the like, so game theory is about handling that type of scenario when the normal rules no longer apply. It’s not just about simple greed, people brake the rules for various reasons. Psychopaths like Trump and the White House, simply feel more entitled, and they need to be shown very clearly that it will not be accepted.
            We absolutely need to respond to Trump according to game theory, because you can’t control him by throwing him a cookie from time to time, he will always come back for more until he is stopped. The exact same as with Putin, despite they are different psychologies.

            Trump is a bully because he thinks he can get away with it. When he is shown he can’t, he is most likely a coward if he think there are consequences. This is also how he gets the TACO nickname.

        • OwOarchist@pawb.social
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          21 hours ago

          That also depends on Europe’s leaders not being beholden to the same international oligarchs who pull Trump’s strings.

          • tomiant@piefed.social
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            1 hour ago

            This is the limiting factor. A non-trivial number of them are in cahoots. Not always and necessarily directly, but American capital has its tentacles stuck into many industries and financials structures through which to exert influence over industry and politics.

    • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
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      22 hours ago

      EU has lots of options to retaliate against USA

      They do indeed. Aren’t they like the third largest economic market in the world? They can make it really sting if they’re motivated.

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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        13 hours ago

        Europe is indeed the third largest economy in the world, but EU is the global leader in trade.