QUICK! DONT VOTE AND LET THE REGRESSIVE PARTY KEEP POWER! 🤣👍
Look at you talking as if there is no regressive party in the US
Literally the opposite of what I said, but cool. 👍
This is part of what just erodes the hope out of me. We all know there are periods of regression and periods of progress, but whatever damage is caused by the regression period is
1- Caused much more quickly than any progress.
2- Is usually beneficial to the ruling class, thus they have less of an incentive to fix it.
3- Might just become normalized, at which point you’re just starting from square one all over again.
Like, age/identity verification. We are in a period of mass and widespread regression right now and age verification is making progress, eroding freedom and privacy on the internet. Do you think that when we enter the period of progress, the age verification systems of today will just be reverted? Fuck no. They’ll stay. They’ll become normal. And the fight against them will need to start from scratch, with an ever bigger amount of opposition.
I’m really jealous of the people who can maintain hope.
On the hopeful side, socialism hasn’t had this many proponents since the 1910s-1940s. We’re making huge strides in overturning McCarthyist propaganda, and growing exponentially.
The next step wouldn’t be abandoning democrats, it would be getting democrats in power, getting rid of the republicans (because they’ve provably turned into an enemy of the United States of America), and then creating an actual left party, and having the democrats become the new right wing.
For at least 5 minutes, I’d bet, we’d have a sane right wing.
This. We need to move the country to working for the people. The way you do this is by consistently voting for the best representative of the people. You don’t need to start by having the perfect option. If the most progressive candidate is a Democrat, even if they aren’t progressive, you vote them in. When the fascist consistently lose, then that democrat is the right wing which frees space for a more progressive candidate.
Leaping to a perfect candidate would be amazing. Taking steps in the right direction is still good and worth our energy.
Spoiler: Democratic politicians wanted 80% of what Trump did. The 20% they didn’t want was all him going after his democratic enemies … but they take the bad with the “good”.
Then why are the republicans spending all their time undoing democratic initiatives.
Because the orange kid-diddler got his feeling hurt by the black president and has been actively undoing anything possible
Because that’s the game they play.
That is how the ratchet works. Republicans go insane when they take office and make cuts to everything except military spending, then dems get in and cut military spending … then feel like a bit of a calm after the storm. Dems dont reverse anything Republicans did … eventually Republicans get back in and around we go again.
Americans are fucked either way, and that’s the crux of it. Both highly corrupt parties blowing smoke up their ass and they’ve all been socialized to regard third options as jokes, meanwhile the establishment is the real joke. There is no good solution, only shades of shit.
Or we’ll get another Kyrsten Sinema, who talked progressive talk then cashed out on billionaire lobbyist payouts.
I still say that POS needs to be sued into the ground as a lesson to the rest of them not to pull that kind of shady bullshit.
Why change the system when there is so much money to be made…
Political corruption is now embedded so deeply into the American system.
Foreign nations buy politicians, rich buy policies. The supreme court are now an extension of the republican party and those free holidays sure do help also they have jobs for life.
The president could nuke every blue state in America and not commit a crime.
It’s fucked, it’s a platform for dictatorship and corruption and political funding and grift has exacerbated it. Of course a party that has languished in powerless opposition isn’t going to give any of that up. Of course they won’t stop themselves insider trading.
And the military, they pledge a meaningless oath and are too weak to put an end to a tyrannical system.
So, are you saying that both “Coca-Cola” and “Pepsi-Cola” are owned by “Big-Cola”?
I’m saying the Cheerios and Lucky Charms may be 2 different cereals but they are both owned by General Mills to serve the same purpose.
…but one of the is actually not as bad for you as the other.
If the alternative to those two is to abstain from eating, then you will need to find an alternative source of nutrition. Those are the only two options in the pantry because you literally do not have the option to go to the store or plant a garden.
In this metaphor, we are comparing politics to food and the comparison breaks down
Stripped of imagery and stated simply: the state that has a monopoly on violence is ensorcelled by the inheritors, takers and exploiters to limit our options but to consider those options as identical is irresponsible and foolish.
We should not be resigned to fatalism or apathy.
You don’t need a governor to sign a bill if it has enough support
This post seems to be implying voting for democrats is a bad idea. The alternative in a 2 party system is to vote for a republican, who would do absolutely worse by workers than this as governor or other representative. Also ignores the fact that the only reason this bill was on a desk to be vetoed is because democrats could even write the bill in the state chambers. If those chambers were just republicans, we’d be reading instead about a democratic governor vetoing a bill to allow child labor or a republican governor signing it into law. They are not the same party and everyone knows it. Yes the wealthy class has influence in the Democratic Party and yes that means that they’re not the ideal party that represents the people, but they’re also not what’s actively destroying the US at break neck speed.
The two party system have to go otherwise you will keep seeing both parties ruling each 1 or 2 elections and you will have more trump like president.
K. Do you think we’re going to be doing anything productive under a Republican that bends the knee to the central party that in turn bends the knee to a single pedophile in charge lest they get primaried?
Nobody is saying “vote blue no matter who” but the Republican Party is rotten to the core. Right now we don’t have a lot of choices and you can’t swing the needle all at once.
K. Do you think we’re going to be doing anything productive under a Republican that bends the knee to the central party that in turn bends the knee to a single pedophile in charge lest they get primaried?
No. With republicans you have fast decline, with democrats slow decline. Extends that for several more decades and you will end with nothing to be saved.
Seems like you and I are having two different conversations. I’m talking about short term strategy and you’re talking about long term goals.
nothing pleases me more than watching the USSA decline
I agree the two party system has to go. I want proportional representation. So I vote for the candidate in the elections I get to vote in that most represents my desire. That is never a Republican, and not voting doesn’t somehow magically make my dream of a socialist democracy occur.
LOL
Don’t ever change americans.
And I mean that, you’ve worked yourself to the edge of the shithole fast ® or less fast (D).
And clearly you deserve it since you have zero awareness and want to keep this idiotic game going.
You are a joke to the world.In which country do you reside?
Belgium
How would you recommend Americans move toward being more like Belgium?
Despite being substantially less bad than the US it certainly shouldn’t be seen as an example.
As we are, like the rest of Europe a vassal state of your regime and are being dragged down with them and sacrificed solely for the benefit and imperialist aspirations of your regime.
The answer to your problems is very simple in theory and has been suggested here and in plenty other places.
Drop both sides of the uniparty.
From the expected reactions here it’s clear that this is not going to happen.
americans are simply to propagandized and conditioned.
You can’t help people that don’t want to be helped.
While many ML patiently and thoroughly explain what needs to be done they refuse these answers.
I admire their persistence but I have lost the energy to keep on trying.
IMO you are no longer victims of your system when you continue to support that system and are de facto collaborators and complicit in their actions.
Then I would rather pragmatically see you destroy yourselves so you at least stop being the cancer of the world.If Belgium shouldn’t be seen as an example, I have some additional follow-up.
How would you suggest to drop the two party system (or unitary, as you believe they’re the same; certainly the political class as a whole is aligned with the oligarchy in the US, and our class struggle is against that as a whole, but I think we disagree in that I find the real world effect of one party in America in particular is worse than the other), in real, practical steps? Do you reject those working toward that goal simply because they’re not there yet, or have a view of how to get there that doesn’t necessarily match yours? It seems if you truly want to effect change, you would support those who share the same end goal, and attempt to persuade them to your preferred way to accomplish that goal, and you, as it stands, should of course be executing your preferred manner.
Also, by the logic you seem to be using, if you still exist in your vassal state, then you must be de facto a collaborator and complicit in their actions. You are no longer a victim of the system that you are in part railing against. I think, then, you must pragmatically wish for your state to also destroy itself. If instead I’ve misunderstood and you’re interested in supporting the workers in their class struggle in real and practical ways, then we’re very much fighting the same fight for the same goal.
The fact that one faction of your uniparty is worse does not make one bit of difference when they both move in the same direction and one side is merely driving the car off the cliff at a slower speed.
Choosing that option instead inhibiting the very simple 3rd party solution is being complicit.
They are not part of “those working toward that goal”, on the contrary.
I imagine the percentage of the striving towards a real left solution is a low single digit number.
Even then, I’ve seen multiple parties here, like real left, extreme right (unfortunately) or green grow from the same depressing numbers to big parties.
But americans have been incapable of even trying, and this for more than 2 centuries.
Now they’re finally at the (pre)fascist state and even then their ‘actions’ are embarrassing, futile and ineffective.
Truly hopeless.
It’s not my country so I am fine with seeing it collapse, as I said, there are but a few unfortunate collateral victims while it’s a huge benefit for the world.
The second best solution.And your logic is faulty in many ways.
I don’t vote for our lesser evil parties so I am in no way complicit.
That is only the sell-out government and those supporting it.
And yes I wish for them to be gone, especially the EU.
Which will become a lot easier once the USSA and its cancerous influence stops.
The difference is Europeans actually do class struggle, unlike americans.
The many commenting here thinking they’re leftists and choosing the lesser evil are nothing to support.
We are certainly not working for the same goal.
Removed by mod
Harris was barely left to Trump on a small amount of issues and on par with him with a very large amount. She and the party are first-term Trump Republicans
Removed by mod
Democrats only pretend to care about those issues as a method of obtaining power.
Gretchen Whitener and Michelle Gresham are proof that you are wrong. But you want to critique democrats, not improve the conditions for citizens.
Delete my comment, keep the hug box safe from criticism. Oppress and silence people.
Your comment got deleted because you can’t read the fucking rules.
2 examples out of thousands is not a flex. They answer to the same people that Republicans do and have enabled our current level of facism.
AOC, Bernie Sanders, Ro Khanna, Katie Porter, Pramila Jayapal and the two examples I just mentioned. You’re wrong.
This extreme left vision won’t work if you only criticize democrats and it’s giving space for MAGA to ruin the country. Why aren’t they going.so hard against republicans as they do democrats? Where are the Gaza protests at trump rallies? This group is like a blue MAGA. Vibes, not victory or facts.
Can’t call a spade a spade or my comments get deleted.
The Republicans have demonstrated that no, these things do not take time.
I asked for a gender inclusive restroom, was gaslighted those things take time. I then emailed CEO cc’ed chair of board of directors. It was converted in 2 days.
It was never about time, it’s about agency
Yep, it takes time for us peons but the dictators can do anything they please.
Add long as you brazenly break rules and laws, and your controlling party willingly does nothing about it
Let’s break some laws to make everyone better off.
No that would be terrorism put the bread down Mr valjean
The only law democrats are willing to break is the Leahy law.
but . . . but . . .but THE PARLIMENTARIAN said we need to keep slavery!
If America was a school we’d have one party full of bullies smoking in the bathroom who don’t give a shit if one of their ranks breaks the rules so long as it’s not messing with them personally, and we’ve got another party full of brown nosers who will run and tell the teacher any time someone even thinks about using the wrong kind of pencil. Neither is good for the student body as a whole, but in very different ways.
Lisa Simpson ass fucking “opposition”.
And she’s dating Nelson.
The teacher? John Roberts & co.
Why would they need to be in the bathroom?
The school is bought and paid for.
Gotta keep up the aesthetics.
I wish that the Democrats had anybody who was willing to fight for Medicare For All the same way Republicans fought to overturn Roe v. Wade.
I would like to think that Bernie Sanders is one of those people.
Republicans have a propaganda network back then to fight against Obamacare (which isn’t even Medicare for all). It was really surprising how much the Republicans fought back given the zeitgeist was going the other way with Michael Moore and all that. The whole “death panel” stuff took the air out of the room and Republicans were going on non-stop about how it was the greatest injustice to all of America. It was wild.
Also, if you look at those that benefit from Obamacare and the fact that they’re losing it. They still hate that it’s associated at all with the Dems. It’s weird.
Bernie isn’t a Democrat, though.
Ah you’re right, he caucuses with them and stuff but he’s an independent, you’re right.
Calling him a democrat gives democrats credit for his activism. Activism they fought against instead of fighting against fascism.
Burning things down is easy, building them up takes time
Then start burning what the republicans built or fuck off.
Burn down systems of oppression, then. Oh wait. That also magically takes time because this stupid platitude is just the latest in a long line of excuses from the pawl of the ratchet.
Excuses excuses.
Yes, Democrats like to whine that they only got 60 votes in the Senate for a short period during Obama’s term. You want to know the last time Republicans had 60 votes in the Senate? 1911.
It’s been over a century since Republicans had that kind of majority, and I think back then the filibuster had a larger threshold to overrule, so they probably didn’t even have a filibuster-proof majority even then. You probably have to go back to Reconstruction to find Republicans with that kind of majority.
Do you know how Republicans dismantle programs without a filibuster-proof majority? They do it by cutting funding. They cut funding to programs and zero out their budgets. The program still exists in legislation; it just isn’t funded.
To fix that damage does not require breaking a filibuster. It just requires properly funding those programs again. And funding can be passed with just a simple majority.
And of course, much of what Republicans do is done by executive order, and that can easily be reversed by the next Democratic president.
Republicans are a monolith and vote in lockstep. Democrats are an un-unified big tent party encompassing every ideology from identical to republicans to social democrats. If everybody that doesn’t vote would vote for progressive candidates in every democratic primary and general we’d have a unified left of center party that could accomplish things. But instead of doing literally the only thing that can walk back the fascism all y’all keep working to get republicans elected.
What does that have to do with the conversation at hand?
Removed by mod
If they truly get a majority to override the president, or in the future can then make the tri fecta again, it’s easy to fix shit. Just make it what it was before, blast it through committees like the Republicans do with hardly a word from someone else. The question then is are Democrats incompetent or complicit.
Everyone knows they are complicit.
Breaking things is a lot faster than fixing them…
Particularly when you’re not interested in fixing them.
Have you ever broken an arm? A window? A car? A heart?
Fixing things takes time.
That doesn’t excuse not starting when given a chance. The focus should be on establishment Dems’ failures to start fixing things, not on setting some unrealistic expectation that all it would take is a snap of the fingers and bippity boppity boo.
In the words of James Baldwin, how much time do you want for your progress?
Democrats tell you that fixing things takes time so that you eventually give up waiting. Incrementalism is a tool of fascism to prevent progress.
How much time? Ideally none. But the real world isn’t idealistic, and breaking more shit because you can’t have what you want right now is what petulant children do.
I’m not defending the establishment Dems’ inaction, but I am cautioning against setting unrealistic expectations. Even if you vote out all the republicans and replace all the democrats with progressives, it will still take time to fix things.
And people’s ignorance about this fact is a key part of the republican strategy that keeps getting them reelected every other election cycle. They always break shit on their way out, leaving a mess for their successors to clean up, and they blame it all on the democrats in office after them.
So promoting this idea that you can fix everything overnight is only helping the republicans.
Incrementalism is a tool of fascism to prevent progress.
No, incrementalism is a necessary reality. The reason it doesn’t work is partly because the right people aren’t in office to implement it, and partly because when the right people are in office they don’t have enough time in office to implement it fully.
Get someone with the right intentions in office (a progressive), and give them enough time (at least two terms), with a congress that supports their agenda, and you’ll see incrementalism work as it’s intended.
Or you can complain that you can’t have everything you want immediately, and attack anyone who doesn’t give you everything you want right now, and when they never get into office for long enough with enough congressional support because nobody can pass your purity test, you’ll have plenty to complain about when literally nothing good gets done because you categorically rejected the idea of incrementalism.
California has a bulletproof Democrat supermajority and does not have livable wages, universal healthcare, affordable housing, affordable COL. So the argument that Democrats need more time Is verifiably false
Did I ever claim establishment Dems are willing to put in the necessary changes to move progress forward? Because California Dems are about as establishment/corporatist as you can freaking get.
I never said “give establishment Dems another chance.” I said “fixing things takes time,” and that will still apply even if you oust all the establishment Dems and replace them with progressives.
Please take your strawman argument somewhere else if you’re not going to actually read what I wrote and respond to that.
Removed by mod
When Democrats do absolutely nothing to counter anything that Republicans do, they are complicit and are to blame for everything Republicans do.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Oh, please explain how it all works for us
That doesn’t excuse not starting when given a chance. The focus should be on establishment Dems’ failures to start fixing things
And until they start fixing things, “fixing things takes time” holds within it the implicit lie that they’re trying.
not on setting some unrealistic expectation that all it would take is a snap of the fingers and bippity boppity boo.
You’re right. That’s only for netanyahu’s every whim.
Netanyahu’s whim isn’t about fixing things, more like breaking everything in Gaza, Iran, and southern Lebanon.
If you really think Gaza can be rebuilt as fast as it’s been destroyed, you’re going to have some unpleasant surprises whenever the world can pull itself out of this death spiral and start caring about humanity again…
You’re telling me that democrats break things and have no interest in fixing them.
What?
They’ll give Trump a golden parachute, wish him the best, then continue the ratchet effect. Neo-liberals are as much enemies of democracy as the reactionaries.
Assume that Democrats win the next presidential election and enough seats in both the House and Senate to take meaningful actions.
Assume that there will be a peaceful transfer of power.
Assume that Trump doesn’t die in office.
If all of the above come to pass, and Trump doesn’t face real legal consequences for his actions, then it’s another in the long line of flashing neon signs telling would-be dictators that America is up for grabs for whoever strikes first.
we must move forward and heal which is why we won’t push for charges or do any investigations
Just like they did with the bushes and Nixon and Reagan
If you cannot blame racism you can blame Reagan.
Worse I’d say, they’re less upfront about it
until they rehabilitate him in 10 years as the reasonable example, compared to Emperor Bloodvein Crusader.
See George W Bush . . .
He already has his golden parachute. He’s been appointed the chair of “The Board of Peace” for the rest of his life.
Only in amurica would they sell people on the right to be fired for no reason and call it “right to work”
“Right to work” means you can’t be required to join the union, but the union is still required to bargain for you without you contributing to it. Its designed to defund and kneecap organized labor. It has nothing to do with firing.
At will employment is what lets the employer fire at any time, and that is the law in 49 of the states.
Welcome to the age of bad faith laws! Because if they were honest, they couldn’t lifestyle market conservatism to “people who like tradition”.
Getting fired is right to work. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
They call trusting your ignorance “faith” and its something you absolutely need lol
The termination for any reason is at-will employment, aka “will to work”. With that being said your point still stands because “right to work” is an anti union law that guarantees an employees right to refrain from being part of a union (lol). Both terms are dumb.
At-will employment and “right-to-work” are distinct ideas. The first has some real benefits, while the other is just union-busting bullshit.
At-Will Employment means that the relationship of employee to employer is technically voluntary. Your employer can fire you or lay you off for almost any reason or no reason, but you are likewise free to just walk away without even finishing your shift and get another job. (Non-discrimination laws and professional continuity-of-care rules are common exceptions.)
Right to work doesn’t affect whether or not your employement relationship is voluntary. Instead, it means only and exclusively that you can freeload off the union, getting all of their benefits and leaving them with all of the expenses of negotiating your salary and work rules.
In the USA most (but not all) states are “at-will employment”, and most red states have the same sort of bullshit anti-worker “right to work” laws that MLK was campaigning against when he was murdered. And, unfortunately, thanks to SCOTUS fuckery all of the USA is essentially “right to work” since the same assholes behind “corporations are people” and “money is speech” decided that payroll deductions for union dues are terrible in way that payroll deductions for taxes or insurance aren’t.
The problem with at-will is the unequal relationship corporations and employees have. If I, as an employee, simply walk off the job, that hurts my chances of employment at other corporations. A company, however, will never see any consequence no matter how badly they treat employees.
Exactly. You can walk away and get evicted and starve vs. they can make you walk away and get evicted and starve… This is what constitutes fairness by modern democratic standards, apparently.
Understand that the precursor to at-will employment was that you walk away from your job and get arrested for breaking contract, and your family gets evicted without you able to earn money to pay for their food or shelter.
Like the other commenter says, it’s extremely flawed but serves a purpose.
“There used to be something worse” is not the same as “the current thing is good”
Absolutely not, I agree.
But it’s also kinda like Republicans saying they’ll “repeal then replace” the ACA. You need the plan for the replacement beforehand, otherwise you just return to the old problems.
That’s still the law under at will employment, if you sign a contract, you can’t just quit anymore. We lost the protection of one year contracts, like you really think it’s better for employers to be able to fire you with no warning than having one year contracts?? This all happened centuries ago of course
No one is saying that at-will isn’t also bad for workers, but it’s less bad than what came before it.
deleted by creator
Power is never given, it is taken.
I see a lot of discourse around this theory that when Democrats are in power they’ll reverse everything this regime has done. Yes this is a comforting thought but it’s way too much to expect from the Democratic Party as we know it now.
The Executive branch has been given (and has taken) an extreme amount of power to the point where the balance we once knew is now nonexistent. Does anyone think for one second the next president will just forfeit those gains? What incentive is there? And as we’ve seen and continue to see, who will hold them to account?
My bet is that we’ll see a few easy ‘gimme’ reversals that are enough to enable our slide back into the complacency we so desperately crave.
