- cross-posted to:
- chapotraphouse@hexbear.net
- cross-posted to:
- chapotraphouse@hexbear.net
cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/9388376
Tweto by https://x.com/gaijingirl2026/status/2092235861265924137
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The bottom one is likely to destroy the child crushing machine by being inept. The top will keep it maintained for decades to come.
All the bureaucracy is suddenly smooth sailing when they want to bomb the fuck out of kids in the middle east, but all these weird rules and regulations are in the way of anything remotely challenging their interests.
Weird how democracy works that way. Almost like that’s the point!
But the parlimtarian!
So true lol. “Think about the long term consequences of raising wages by 1%!!!”
Gee, we’re so sorry, but we’d have to draft up a new bill and then vote on it and then in 1+ years when that bill doesn’t pass we will have to draft up a shittier one that still won’t pass
I see some libs are angry with this. Lmao (Republicans can also go fuck themselves)
Republicans are libs too, in that they too support the continuation of the child crusher that is capitalist hegemony. Leftism begins with anti-capitalism. The US has two pro-capitalist parties with different branding, much like Pepsi and Coke.
The US has two pro-capitalist parties with different branding, much like Pepsi and Coke.
Sorry, but to have them understand better it’s better to have them understand in burger talk
So imagine Mcdonalds and Burger King…
Republicans are just more honest about their immorality and self-centered sociopathy. 🤷♂️
With themselves, even. Republicans let it out, liberals make a perverse game of almost never letting it out.
Not sure if I am angry, or just resigned that we will always have Trump like figures in office so that some voters can feel morally superior.
I personally think the moral thing to do it vote for the first comic if that is the choice on election day. In reality no 2028 Dem candidate will be like Biden on foreign affairs, and there will be much more accountability if Dems simply take the House and Senate compared with zero accountability on foreign affairs today.
In reality no 2028 Dem candidate will be like Biden on foreign affairs.
Kamala ran on having the same policies as Biden. What makes you think the next one won’t?
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Remember kids, youre either supporting evil or evil with a happy face and there’s no other options, absolutely none at all, so you might as well vote for evil with a happy face - It’s not like we have done this for decades and the strategy has lead us to a point where the only difference is whether or not the senile maniac in charge wears self-tanner or not.
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There is no viable alternative, and your choices are the big evil or the little evil. You can either vote for the little evil or accept the big evil!
There is a viable alternative, it’s called organizing and overthrowing your damn government.
That’s a lot of work tho, think of all the missed brunches.
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Tell me where you live and I’ll tell you three orgs you can join this instant. You could figure it out yourself too, but I dont mind doing the googling for you.
You’re right there’s only two parties in the us and you have to vote for one of them, otherwise you get shot. And thats the only things that are possible for you to do.
Guess we just have to walk down this road until the lesser evil party is also goose-stepping on your neck and then I gotta walk all alone. I’ll walk by the cage in which they keep you and tell you I am real sad about it, but I had to do it because the other party was less cordial. Then ill go have brunch with whoevers left in the electoral hellscape we have created by inchworming towards a completely avoidable Armageddon if we had only had spine. But we dont, we’ve got mimosas instead.
Do you even listen to yourself? lol
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Why even tolerate that kind of system? At that point, burn it all down.
Guess what, both of these choices still kill people outside your country. And Trump, being incompetent as he is, is actually making the system collapse which is in fact a huge benefit to the rest of the world (and the rest of the world’s population is fucking substantially more than Amerika)
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Based on your last paragraph, it seems that you prefer the greater evil. That checks out, “both sides” bullshit is pretty universally pushed by Republicans.
Based on your posts, it seems you don’t care about genocide and destroying countries as long as you get your treats. That’s “lesser evil” for you.
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How did not electing harris work out for Gaza? Still rubble? Shame. I definitely thought the right wing was gonna help Palestine, lol.
Wow, look at that, a scratched liberal. I love how you people get smug about genocide. You fucking monster.
Only fascists like you will consider genocide a bipartisan issue. Go fuck yourself.
I definitely thought the right wing was gonna help Palestines
You’re right about one thing. Harris is part of the right wing.
Hey wasn’t it Joe Biden who was a fervent supporter of Israel while he was pretending he wasn’t? What was it Kamala said about him? Was it something about she would have done as he did? Damn that’s crazy, good things all those missiles and guns and bullets and money didnt work until Trump came into power.
This is just straw, you didn’t even bait it
My god it’s even from Twitter
How is it a strawman? Liberals will and do vote for a party operating the foreign child crusher, if that party has more decorum and civility that the other party that would operate the foreign child crusher
It really needs to have the panels expanded. Each panel should also have a “domestic child crushing machine” and the D one would not be going and the R would be crushing away.
That’s way more accurate to the real world.
The dems are also running a domestic child crusher. You people just don’t notice or care until a republican is in charge.
Here’s the non strawman version of the top panel:
“I will operate the foreign child crusher in a way which will perhaps lead to less foreign children being crushed. What’s that? Dismantle the child crusher? This is not politically feasible you should be more reasonable.”
Remember to add that no one cares about the child crusher when a democrat is in charge
you didn’t even bait it
Idk, looking at the votes and comments i think i bait it pretty good
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I see we’re back to the same posts that came up in the 2024 election. Tying to get people to not bother voting.
Which child crushing policitian will you vote for?
The one who supports trans rights :3
Are you talking about the one who said that trans people should “follow the law” when asked about their persecution? The one from the party that concluded it had to be less woke to win elections, after eating shit again? The one who has a long track record of doing nothing, at best, for trans people? The one who did nothing to defend roe v. Wade? That one? Yeah, what a great idea, surely signalling that you are completely fine with being thrown under the bus and persecuted (as long as there’s a guy with a combover opposing them) will not at all come back to bite you in the ass. How’s the poem go?
First they put children in tiny cages, but I didnt care because it was Obama who did it and besides I’m still sitting nifty, so who gives a shit.
Then they bombed trans people, but they were brown, so I’m still sitting pretty.
And thats it, im hunky dory.Like the right not to be subject to genocide and apartheid? Oh wait, I forgot that you don’t consider non-white people human.
I’m joking silly. I’m not white. All politicians are garbage. Fuck them all
If you say so. I’m not convinced
I’ve not seen either of them do that. The best we’ve gotten is them pretending to support trans rights, then immediately backing down when they have the power to do something about it.
Who’s that?
Seriously @dismay3915@lemmy.world, which candidate that supports the rights of trans Palestinians did you vote for?
I think they were being sarcastic?
Doesn’t look like it
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Damn, good one bro, you must have got so many updoots
Some old corrupt fucker with a smart PR team
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Can you point out where the comic suggests that you shouldn’t bother voting? Because I must have missed that part.
Are you stupid
Is there more than two parties in the US?
Functionally not, but voting third party is at least better than not voting
Alright, so you can vote for someone other than the orphan crushers. Weird how you pretended like that wasn’t a possibility.
It has proven to be less effective at stopping the orphan crushing machine than voting for democrats. It is possible that in the long run it could be more effective, though that has not yet been proven.
Doing something that hasnt been done has not been proven to do anything because it hasnt been done. Voting democrat has only accelerated the orphan-killer, so I struggle to see how legitimising the people who want to kill orphans could in any way be a more effective way to stop them than doing the bare minimum of not legitimising them.
Voting, at least at a national level, doesn’t change anything, because we are not ruled by politicians but by corporations who own those politicians. At a communal level it’s different, but that’s not the topic here. What it does though, is giving legitimacy to an illegitimate system. If 80% of people would not vote, the system would quicky start to have a legitimacy crisis.
Why does the system need your sense of its legitimacy
It doesn’t need my sense of legitimacy but if 80% of people say no it will have a problem justifying itself.
Why does it need to justify itself? What do you think happens when it does not?
Is this some kind of ploy to try and find some “Voting is always good” counter point, that voting in and of itself is democracy and having that is better then nothing? Which is why you seem to be implying that the system doesn’t need to justify itself, that if the system didn’t do that it would still function and people would still participate, because it is, after all, “Democracy”?
Quit beating around the bush and just say what you mean instead of being a coy annoyance.
It would be nice to find out, seeing as how the current strategy of voting blue no matter what very observably leads to genocide and less and less differences between the two parties.
Communists critique of Democrats: Somehow both not at all relevant or to be taken into account and also the reason KKKopmala lost
Choose one:
- a kick in the balls and a taco.
- a kick in the balls, acid to the face, and shot in each leg.
Both sidesists:
See! See! They’re exactly the same! They’re both gonna kick us in the balls!
Is the taco coming from all the immigrants the democrats deported? They even ran on being tougher on immigration than Trump. They deported more people than he did. Is that where the taco is coming from?
Are you evil naturally, paid for or just incredibly mentally lacking? Do you understand that the West stands solely through oppression and murder on a global scale? Why do you minimize it to a “kick in the balls”? Because they’re not yours, but of other people who don’t share your race? Do you understand what you’re saying here? Goddamn.
It really is a reminder of how much western shitlibs don’t consider foreigners human that they would equivocate a modern Holocaust with 'a kick to the balls and a taco"
Easy for you when you aren’t the one being kicked. Also you missed where both kill tens of thousands of children.
Did you forget about the millions of dead children your country produces or did you have to make it about you again?
Oh, they didn’t forget, they clearly just don’t care.
That’s called a whataboutism, friend.
Whataboutism isn’t what that is, but whataboutism is also just a term made up by a zionist and then propagated by the CIA in order to stop people like you from thinking about things.
No it isn’t, you fucking idiot
I hope you’re talking about their comment and not mine, because the post is literally about the child crushing machine.
You’re ignoring the stated viewpoint and making up one thats easier to argue against. Its clear that in the eyes of the poster they both give the same thing, one is just rude about it. Either argue for why being rude about it matters so much or argue for why they aren’t creating the same conditions.
If someone came up to me and said they were going to shoot one cat or two and if I didn’t choose one they would shoot three I still wouldn’t play their game. Don’t negotiate with terrorists or whatever.
Thats not the deal. Its one or two or two AND you
Both of them lead to you getting put in the machine.
Choose one:
- a polite foreign child crusher
- a rude foreign child crusher
Libs:
How dare you point out that polite people are crushing children? You must think I shouldn’t vote for anyone! It’s very important to never improve things, foreign children be damned!
Not that it really matters, because I’m not a liberal, I’m a leftist, but I (and more importantly, my liberal friends) have no problem criticizing democrats for supporting Israel. So go ahead and point that out all you want. I’ll 100% agree with you that they are just as bad as republicans on that issue. The problem I have is when someone reduces the parties down to their stances on one single issue. (In case that wasn’t incredibly obvious from my first comment.)
I’m not a liberal, I’m a leftist
“I don’t agree with Hitler on the death camps, but that’s just one issue, obviously I still support him!”
The parties have been reduced down to their stance on this one issue because they can’t even differ there. They both suck on all issues, but a lot of people would still vote for democrats if they could just not commit overt genocide.
They “can’t even differ there”? How about republicans want to strip my friends of the right to go into the correct bathroom, or play sports, or have a job, or get the medical care they need, or have the right identifier on their ID, or be treated fairly by their own government. Democrats don’t. That’s a pretty huge difference.
Democrats support stripping the right of people to live. Democrats support stripping the right of people not to be raped by dogs. Oh but they’re not your person friends, and you’re the protagonist of reality and people you don’t care about don’t matter
Ah yes Democrats famous for giving a shit when roe v Wade was overturned. Democrats whose candidate had one thing about trans people handling persecution: “They should follow the law”
Democrats whose main takeaway from losing once again was that they were too woke on the gender stuff. They do fuck all about republicans which is the same as supporting it, which a large amount of them do as well. But im sure voting for them despite them working against you and yours will surely result in something good and not at all push them towards even more depraved goals. Like genocide. Which they are committing. I wonder what the next red line will be?So because democrats haven’t stopped republicans from being so shitty when republicans have power, I shouldn’t vote for them, and just let republicans have more power? I’m not following your logic.
You people keep acting as if you’re being told to roll over and accept defeat. Nobody is saying that. What people are saying is “voting for the lesser evil doesn’t work. Its such a dogshit strategy that there isn’t any difference between those two parties anymore.” And somehow you take that to mean there’s nothing to be done. If you are really so hellbent on voting being the only thing you can do, then at least vote for a third party. But really you ought to be doing more than that.
The absolute very best case scenario for a democrat is that they do fuck all. Most of them are far worse than that. They are typically doing the exact same shit as republicans, but no one gives a shit because they’re not overt. I am not an accelerationist, so I dont believe its a good idea to concentrate power in the hands of capitalists, so I won’t vote for the more competent managers of empire.
In the case of a best-case democrat, you’re also making things worse by voting for them, because your vote legitimises their inaction. Every election were democrats have won has been an election that normalised the monstrous. It didnt use to be like this, that you could just shell out cash for cops and child killers. You didnt use to just be able to hand out massive fracking contracts or senselessly pursue brinksmanship without anyone calling you out for the rabid warhawk that you were. Now it doesn’t matter. John Kerry ran on being the better guy for the war in Iraq. Obama won his second term on the back of all his warmongering. It wasn’t always like this. Decades of the lesser evil has lead us down this path, decades of “well we have to vote for them just this once, its the most important election dont you know” has put us where we are now. It clearly observably does not work.
The very best of the democrats is just a republican a few election cycles behind. And most of them are far below par.
Voting for them gives them legitimacy, its not a harmless action.And of those that are the very best, they quickly get engulfed and integrated by the machine, turned into the next generation of managers of empire.
Famous republican Joe Biden
RvW was overturned under the USian dem government, after decades of promising to codify it, and at a time when all of the relevant judges could have just been replaced.
Yes, it is clear that you aren’t following the logic. Maybe some context will help: The democrats support republican policies when they are in power.
Also, who said that you should “just let the republicans have more power”? I didn’t see anyone even suggest that.
Doesn’t seem like you really know how to read, tbh.
- Both bomb kids
- Both support genocide
- Both support imperialism and colonialism
- Both screw over the working class to help out their rich friends
- Both openly lie about how they are going to fix things
- Both leverage military and intelligence agencies against their own citizens
The problem I have is when someone reduces the parties down to their stances on one single issue.
The “foreign child crusher” in this comic is doing a lot of heavy lifting, for a lot other problems.
Democrats are, for the most part, pro union. They are the only ones supporting Medicare for all. They actually support science and education. They support social safety nets like social security and SNAP. They support gun regulations. They support foreign aid. They support safe access to abortions. They support LGBTQ rights.
Life is demonstrably worse under republican policies for the working class. I’d love it if third parties were an option, but they’re just not. Pretending like things will get better if we just let republicans win is not helping. They are literally turning the US into a fascist police state.
When one party is fine with me, if a little wary because I’m way further left than they are, and the other part literally wants to kill me and people like me, I see it as a pretty big difference.
Joe Biden broke up the rail strike and the democrats have a long history of weakening unions, this is the dumbest most ahistoric shit I’ve read yet.
Im not gonna bother with the rest of your gish-gallop bullshit except to point out that Roe v. Wade was overturned under a democrat president and it was NEVER codified even when they had run on doing exactly that.
Democrats are, for the most part, pro union.
True, Joe Biden finally ended the Amtrak worker strike—wait that’s not pro-union!
They are the only ones supporting Medicare for all.
Except for Palestinians.
They support gun regulations.
Except for Israelis
They support foreign aid.
To arm the modern Holocaust.
Life is demonstrably worse under republican policies for the working class.
Please demonstrate that the Palestinian working class have it worse.
They are literally turning the US into a fascist police state.
The democrats were already supporting the modern Holocaust
When one party is fine with me, if a little wary because I’m way further left than they are,
“Genocide is fine with me”
the other part literally wants to kill me and people like me, I see it as a pretty big difference.
“Palestinians are objects, not people”
All of these are so funny. “They’re turning the us into a fascist police state”
NEWSFLASH, ASSHOLE! ITS BEEN ONE THE WHOLE TIME. Obama was the one to make the patriot act.
Democrats are, for the most part, pro union. They are the only ones supporting Medicare for all. They actually support science and education. They support social safety nets like social security and SNAP. They support gun regulations. They support foreign aid. They support safe access to abortions. They support LGBTQ rights.
No they dont. They campaign on supporting these things, but when they have power, they don’t do anything about them at best.
When they had a majority under Biden and Obama, when did they set up Medicare for all? When did they codify abortion rights?
And lets look at their foreign aid:
- Support for genocide
- Support for dictators
- Support for warlords
Life is demonstrably worse under republican policies for the working class.
And life got demonstrably worse under democratic policies for the working class and for people living in other countries.
Pretending like things will get better if we just let republicans win is not helping. They are literally turning the US into a fascist police state.
When did I say that we should let republicans win? I’m pretty sure I never did. The democrats are helping the republicans turn the US into a fascist police state. Remember when Obama increased mass surveillance? Remember when Biden increased funding to the military, ICE, DHS, cops, and helped build out the border wall? Remember when they both mass-deported and tortured people?
When one party is fine with me, if a little wary because I’m way further left than they are, and the other part literally wants to kill me and people like me, I see it as a pretty big difference.
Well, that may be the difference between us. I’m pretty far to the left of the Democrats, because I think things like rape, torture, and murder are bad. I see both parties actively supporting those things happening to people like me, and people unlike me. But I guess that doesn’t matter to you as long as they aren’t going after you.
Democrats are, for the most part, pro union.
Is this a joke?
Oh, you aren’t living in reality, you just believe whatever they tell you on the evening news. It makes more sense now.
The meme didn’t say they were the same, they said they both crush children. People gotta come with a list before it’s okay? Not great for memes.
(It’s not just Palestinian children either btw)
They’re literally drawn as the same person with different colors.
Do you not understand meme comics either? Jesus Christ…
They are also drawn with speech bubbles demonstrating their differences.
Which does not include any concrete difference in policy
How detailed does a meme have to be?
The meme heavily implies that the only difference is that one is polite and one is rude, which is not the only difference.
They both operate the exact same Palestinian child crushing machine, but one also operates a number of additional child crushing machines. People didn’t support the lesser evil because they’re more polite, they do it to keep those additional child crushing machines from operating.
You think Palestine is the only Bi-partisan machine? You really need to open a history book. Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Syria and all the rest are all bi-partisan.
Eh, the degree varies greatly. And ultimately, bi-partisan machines are irrelevant to the choice. Look at the partisan ones. Which side is operating more partisan machines?
Off the top of my head I can’t think of a single non bi-partisan one.
The difference in both parties is of 100% hitler and 99.5% hitler. Not much
I understand why people do it but what I don’t understand is why they are content to continue supporting any child crushing and discourage people from discussing it.
Discussing it is fine, I think people only get touchy about it right before an election because they don’t want other people to lose sight of the utility of voting lesser evil. I think the ones who actually think about it don’t support any child crushing, they just recognize that the election has a binary outcome, and they’d rather fight the lesser evil than the greater one.
At the end of the day, voting in bourgeoisie elections is just choosing the enemy you’ll be fighting, and choosing the lesser child crushing gives you a fight you’re more likely to win.
Maybe if your only options are evil, after decades and centuries, it’s time to stop being evil and start over.
When else can people put pressure on the lesser evil to “tone down” the evil? Or take the opportunity to ensure folks know about the evil? Isn’t it when things look their worst they say “well actually we need to be slightly more evil to get those swing voters”?
Maybe I don’t understand the US system but I believe platforms are individual to candidates and that there are no overall party platforms that the candidates are expected to adhere to. How is there no shift to less evil under these conditions? So many individual elections for individual people and a whole lot of wack people getting elected.
and they’d rather fight the lesser evil than the greater one.
I think this is my point: when do they fight the lesser evil?
I think it would be more realistic like this.
Choose one:
- murder strangers and ignore you mostly.
- murder strangers but kick you in the balls.
Democrat voters:
You are blind if you don’t see the difference.
Wait but if you’re bluemaga, why do you portray the one where you don’t get trump as worse?
??
hint
“taco” trump
hmm, those both choices you laid out; how do the people outside your country get affected by these elections?
Generally, much worse under republicans. Republicans like to start wars.
If you are saying this unironically you need to open a history book and look outside your bubble. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Pakistan, Yemen, Haiti, former Yugoslavia, Sudan, Gaza, Vietnam, Dominican Republic, Somalia and many many more attacked and or destroyed under democrats.
Republicans like to start wars.
Compared to Democrats? How? Libya, Syria and Yemen were attacked under a Democratic president. In fact, Kamala said that Iran is the greatest threat in the world.
Or better yet, the escalation of the genocide under Joe Biden? The genocidal monster who loves “Israel” so much https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYLNCcLfIkM
Turns out, outside of Amerika; there is in fact not a single fucking difference between these 2 parties. All you care about is domestic affair concerning your treats. You don’t give a fuck about people outside your area.
“Treats” like access to healthcare and food?
Going back to brunch
Totally, and “treats” like bombs and death for the brown people! great system you guys have.
Yes, exactly those.
Turns out, outside of Amerika; there is in fact not a single fucking difference between these 2 parties. All you care about is domestic affair concerning your treats. You don’t give a fuck about people outside your area.
🫰🫰🫰(That’s snapping btw lol)
Like I don’t even expect people to overthrow the government tomorrow or whatever. Shit’s scary, I get it. But like, it would be super cool if they could stop aggressively defending the child crushing in front of the world, on the internet. As a start.
Idk how they can be so weak, they’re truly little scared animals with no honour. We don’t have to and we may even not be able to fix the issues, but to not even admit to them to make ourselves feel better? Jeez. 😔🤷♂️
Do you seriously think most people want foreign wars?
Hello, I am a politician running on a proud history of supporting every war the US has been engaged in within my lifetime, as well as most of those outside of it. I would like to thank you for your vote, and please tell me - was your vote for me because of my warmongering or in spite of it? I sincerely await your answer, as it will mean a lot to what sort of policy I pursue <- How you seem to imagine it works when people vote for a warhawk despite their hawkishness.
I do not think this. Why do you ask?
In my entire lifetime, only republicans have started wars, and only democrats have ended them. I’m almost 40.
In fact, Kamala said that Iran is the greatest threat in the world.
And Donald Trump started a war with them.
In my entire lifetime, only republicans have started wars
Are you less than two years old? Did you already forget that the most recent blue government invaded Yemen and prepared to invade Iran?
This dude just admitted to being 2 years old
The US has not formally declared war since WW2, so formal declaration cannot be your threshold.
Wikipedia has got a list of “wars” in the 21st century that the US has participated in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States_in_the_21st_century
Every president during this period makes the list.
Edit: to clarify I’m not saying Wikipedia is straight facts. It’s a convenient list. Using any other list is fine too.
Are you implying that Joe Biden started the Ukraine War and the Gaza War?
NATO had been pushing for war with Russia for a while. It finally got it.
So yeah, either of the recent blue governments can be said to have started the war.
Biden supported Israel on day one of the war with everything he could even bypassing congress so yes, also its the Israeli–Palestinian war btw you dont call the other the Donbass war now do you?
I’m trying to understand what starting a war means such that you can say it was only the republicans.
There are other conflicts in there that are listed with dem presidents.
-Libya
-Niger
-Syria
-Yemen
All places intervened in by a democrat in recent memory, both parties are extremely militaristic.
It’s only a war if American troops are dying en masse, don’t you know?
am from outside the us.
nope. no worse than democrats.
It’s not about voting for the lesser evil, but against the worse one. The way the United States is structured, which influences the way its people think about voting and vice versa, you are given only two options when voting for president:
- Vote for the Democrat one
- Vote for the Republican one
But… you might think you’re clever and say “I should just vote for neither of them, nobody will stop me”. If your state has RCV then put your preferred candidate as a first pick and just place Democrat before Republican. Problem solved, no more strategic voting. Unfortunately, precious few states have adopted this for any elections, let alone the presidency.
In states without RCV, there are 3 equivalent cases from your perspective:
- Vote Republican: Increment their number by 1
- Overall effect +1 for Republicans
- Vote Democrat: Increment a threatening score by 1, thereby requiring Republicans to gain 1 more vote to win
- Overall effect -1 for Republicans
- Don’t vote or vote for a non threatening party/candidate
- Overall effect 0 for Republicans
Forgive me for assuming the reader wants to get Republicans (and Republican aligned Democrats) out of office. In this case, it is your responsibility to vote for the most threatening candidate. It’s a sick trick of game theory, which is why RCV is so important.
HELP! We tried this in Europe but the politicians kept on selling out to rich people as soon as (or even before) they got voted in! Feeling kinda alienated and class conscious atm what should we do now?
Maybe you should stop doing evil.
You really just gotta get out of the private space of who people vote for and do actual work that matters. Wasting your energy trying to get polite genocidaires elected is costing lives every day. You only have so much time. Vote the way you understand the system works, assume everyone else is as smart or smarter than you and they can figure out how to vote. And then spend the other 364 days of the year putting all this effort you want to put into vote mongering and put it into dismantling the orphan crushing machine.
Because the way this works is that there’s an orphan crushing machine and there are two parties who take turns operating the orphan crushing machine and we need all the help we can get dismantling the orphan crushing machine.
And when you spend all your effort screaming at the people who want to dismantle the orphan crushing machine that they should ALSO be sure they vote for the correct people to operate the orphan crushing machine, wait let me put it in your terms:
If you help us dismantle the orphan crushing machine, that’s -1 for the orphan crushers and +1 for the people fighting the orphan crushers
If you don’t help us dismantle the machine, that’s 0 for the orphan crushers
If you consume time and energy from other people who would otherwise be convinced to help us dismantle the orphan crushing machine, that -1 or more for the people fighting the orphan crushers and +1 or more for the orphan crushers.
It’s just the way game theory works out. Trust me. I’m a doctor of game theory.
Because the way this works is that there’s an orphan crushing machine and there are two parties who take turns operating the orphan crushing machine and we need all the help we can get dismantling the orphan crushing machine.
Damn that’s 🔥
It’s a little wild to tell someone they should spend this energy doing something about it instead of writing when you wrote more than them just to say it. It rings pretty hollow. Not saying this to tell you you’re right or wrong, just some constructive criticism. Stick to the substantial arguments if you really want to change minds.
Ugh. This whole argument again. No friendo, what I did is not equivalent to what they did. What I did was spend the time to spread the information that helps my case that electoralism is a failure and that we must move beyond it. I provided evidence that most electoralists need to see so that they too can abandon the electoral path and join the rest of us in tearing it down.
What my opponent is doing is moralizing to try to get people to vote correctly and every character they write is in the service of this. I never said writing is bad. I said spending energy on convincing people of the electoral path is bad. Spending energy on convincing people against the electoral path is good.
You are repeating the same hollow rhetoric that if I disagree with the US fighting wars then I should disagree with Iran fighting wars, or that if I disagree with the master beating slaves then I should disagree with slaves beating the master.
Wasting your energy trying to get polite genocidaires elected is costing lives every day.
On the contrary, it helps save lives until the orphan crushing machine is dismantled. No one is saying just to vote lesser evil and do nothing else, they’re saying that voting for lesser events is one part of the larger effort.
Because the way this works is that there’s an orphan crushing machine and there are two parties who take turns operating the orphan crushing machine
The way this actually works is that they take turns operating one particular orphan crushing machine, but one party turns on a number of additional orphan crushing machines when it’s their turn.
And when you spend all your effort screaming at the people who want to dismantle the orphan crushing machine that they should ALSO be sure they vote for the correct people to operate the orphan crushing machine
No one is spending all their effort doing that. Some people spend some of their effort doing that, in order to counteract the efforts of other people who can’t seem to understand the difference between the people operating one orphan crushing machine, and the people operating several orphan crushing machines.
Until you actually have an actionable plan to dismantle the machines, or an electoral process which doesn’t make third parties spoilers, the optimal achievable outcome of voting is the minimization of machine operation. The operation of bi-partisan machines isn’t really relevant to the voting issue. Whoever has the greater machine operation is the outcome to avoid.
We agree that the goal is to dismantle orphan crushing machines. It’s much easier to dismantle machines while they are not running. Spending time and energy to try to get the lesser machine-operators instead of the greater machine-operators is a +1 to the machine-dismantlers, since now they have the opportunity to dismantle the idle machines.
The efforts outside voting are unaffected by voting for the lesser machine-operators. Not voting, or generally speaking voting third party, gives no benefit to the machine-dismantlers. Since, generally, the people who want to dismantle the machine would otherwise vote for the lesser machine-operators, discouraging that vote is a detriment to the machine-dismantlers; therefore fighting that discouragement is a benefit to the machine-dismantlers.
Game theory only works if you assign your values correctly.
Game theory only works if you assign your values correctly.
Obama/Biden changed the policies, budget, headcount, and leaderships of DHS and ICE. They explicitly made it possible for ICE to be deployed in US cities. They appointed Tom Homan to lead it. They deported 3M people. Trump used the framework Obama/Biden put in place. He made Tom Homan his deportation czar in term 1. Biden took office next and did literally nothing to stop any of this from happening except for the fact that he chose not to use ICE the way it was able to be used, knowing full well what would happen on the next swing. Trump started term 2, brought Tom Homan back.
Numbers? Obama deported 3M. Biden deported 4.4M Trump has deported slightly less than 1M in term 1 and about the same number in this term so far. He might be on track to match Biden/Harris.
Obama declared Venezuela a national security threat just to impose more collective punishment on the citizens there. Obama/Clinton destroyed the country of Libya. Clinton literally said she laughed watching the video of the murder of 80-year-old Gaddafi when he was videotaped being sodomized by a bayonet.
You’re a fool if you think one party kills fewer orphans.
US economic sanctions are a bi-partisan consensus and they kill more children than wars do. Averaging 800k deaths per year, every year, for 50 years, without abatement. The Democrats every ounce as responsible as the Republicans. And of those 800k deaths, the most impacted are children, the sick, and the elderly.
It was Truman that saved 10k Nazis from facing trial, Truman that nuked Japan twice, Truman that oversaw the mass murder of 10% of the population in the Northern half of Korea, Truman that supported the fascist dictatorship in the Southern half of Korea that killed 100k civilians in political purges, and Truman who propped up Chiang Kai-Shek while he was fascist dictator in Taiwan and killed or disappeared 10k+ civilians in political purges.
It was LBJ who saw the most heinous crimes committed against Vietnam, building on what JFK had started. It was LBJ who oversee the mass use of Agent Orange and napalm against civilians in Vietnam while the Vietnamese were fighting to expel their colonial oppressors. My Lai, Rolling Thunder, and “free fire” were all LBJ. It was LBJ that decided to make Laos a target and bumb their civilian infrastructure to stop the supply chains feeding the Vietnamese freedom fighters. It was LBJ that oversaw the US leadership of the Indonesian military dictatorship that killed a million people in political purges. It was LBJ who sent Marines to the Dominican Republic to ensure that the democratically elected president did not take his seat and installed a right-wing authoritarian.
Clinton: Yugoslavia, neoliberal destruction of Haiti’s agriculture, corrupt vulture capitalism of post-earthquake Haiti, Bill and Hillary with black house slaves in the Arkansas governor’s mansion, “superpredator” lies and the Crime Bill, blocking UN intervention in Rwanda, undoing the New Deal, undoing the financial protections that crashed the US economy in the 1920s which literally setup the exact mechanisms for the 2008 crisis.
You’re falling for the PR. The Democrats and the Republicans are collaborators. They are the good cop and the bad cop. They both work for the same department. You are convinced that the good cop is someone you should support. You think the good cop is somehow going to lead to better outcomes. You are wrong. And you need to stop trying to convince everyone else to go with the good cop. You need to join the group of people who have refused to support the good cop because they understand the game.
If you want better outcomes just look for the historical examples. Women’s Suffrage? Didn’t happen by voting. Civil Rights? Didn’t happen by voting. Gay rights? Didn’t happen by voting.
You are actively wasting your time fighting with people on the internet about this when you could be doing literally anything else to work on dismantling the orphan crushing machine. And no, you’re wrong that Republicans turn on more machines. They don’t. They use the exact same machine that the Democrats use. They built it together. They maintain it together. It’s a single machine.
Where does it end tho?
When do the machines get dismantled if it has to be perfect before it’s done?
The lesser evil people have no plans to do it. People are told they aren’t supposed to bring up the machines because that might mean it’s more likely that even more machines are brought online.
How many dem governments have those machines survived?
I responded to you elsewhere. You’re not choosing your side, you’re choosing your opponent. Between the two, I prefer the Democrats as my opponent. I should hope that most thinking leftists feel the same. The only reason to choose the Republicans is accelerationism, and ethically I can’t justify “What if we just sent the orphan crushing machine into overdrive so it overheats?”.
I am bad at reading user names 😅
So genocide joe good?
This is just so baby brained in its conception.
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
Oh yes, because obviously anyone criticizing the democratic party for helping to maintain neo-colonial oppression and genocide is a Russian bot.
That was literally 85-95% of lemmy from 2023-2025.
Man Russiagate has permanently fried the brains of all you liberals lmao
But do explain how they are a Russian bot.
Some say Rachel Maddow is teasing the release of some papers that are going to be released to this very day.
Seriously. The queen of political ASMR/ gooning/ ruined orgasm queen. She’ll get you close but she’ll never let you cum. Lotta heavy breathing and pregnant pauses.
How do you decide it’s a bot? It’s it because it says something you don’t like?
Certainly a person, I speak to them on a regular basis.
nah, im actually a chatbot nerd
