Modlog: https://sh.itjust.works/modlog/25693?page=1&actionType=All&userId=21053985 , banned by @goat@sh.itjust.works
For context, goat started calling dbzer0 users tankies, and got into a few arguments.
More context:
It started (to my knowledge) with this comment, goat pinged db0 after he downvoted a comment
a note on the uyghurs (click to show
For the record, I believe that the Uyghurs are mistreated by the CCP, and are experiencing cultural erasure and Human Rights abuses, but there’s a lack of evidence that it’s a genocide specifically (especially since it seems to target the religion, rather than the ethnic group).
Goat banned IndustryStandard, leading to this thread: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52160152/ leading to goat commenting this:
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52160152/21070262
He mentions this:
We constantly encounter bots, spammers, alt accounts, trolls, and doxxers, so I need to be vigilant by regularly checking who’s interfering and from where.
Which I find ironic, since there was some vote manipulation happening, which goat did nothing about (and could be behind), but I’ll get to that later.
After some more arguments, goat started calling dbzer0 users tankies, saying that letting tankie users engage on dbzer0 comms means other users are tankies:
He said that it’s different for LW (lemmy.world) and SJW (sh.itjust.works, not the other word). He then poster the “Tank Man” picture to !flippanarchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com, as he expected us to retaliate (being tankies, according to him). We did not, in fact, retaliate: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21089819
He also posted this in tankiejerk: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52268655, https://sh.itjust.works/comment/20733015.
He also may have done vote manipulation, and at the very least allowed it.
Take, for example, this comment: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21091723
Per lemvotes, it was downvoted by the following users:
The relevant ones here are:
- zedbite@lemmy.world,
- Alpacaaca@lemmy.cafe,
- chirichiri@sh.itjust.works.
If you look through other comments, they downvoted me and other users near-systemically, while upvoting comments made by goat.
For example, take a look at their (respective) lemvotes profile pages: https://lemvotes.org/user/zedbite@lemmy.world https://lemvotes.org/user/Alpacaaca@lemmy.cafe https://lemvotes.org/user/chirichiri@sh.itjust.works
They have all downvoted exclusively arguments against goat and others, and were made almost at the same time.
After a bit more arguing (I’m not posting the specific comments because it’s tedious, and they’re easy to see by scrolling through goat’s profile.) goat decided to ban all dbzer0 users from meanwhileongrad, I think this comment marks when he decided to do this, but I may be wrong.
note on the post that comment was in reply to
I think this reply (by unruffled) was taken out of context. Unruffled is absolutely not defending what’s happening to the Uyghurs, they’re saying that a lot of people have a double standard, where they will not hesitate to condemn the Uyghur genocide, but hesitate on the gaza one, especially when the gaza one is more severe and urgent. To quote them directly:
Yes, that’s exactly what I was saying but of course they misrepresented it. You know exactly what Americans are like. They couldn’t give a shit about the uyghurs, except as a way to China bash and feel superior. I also explicitly said later in the comments I agreed it was a genocide. They’re just doin’ the usual bad faith takes.
Feel free to quote me lol
Since this goat had been banned from dbzer0 for being hostile:
https://sh.itjust.works/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=63615
If DB0 doesn’t want to be associated with Tankies he should stop acting like one.
Why are you necroing this post lil buddy?
Lemmy likes putting ancient posts to the top when one is going by hot and has “hide read posts” on
It’s still at the top of this community feed.
EDIT: Wait, no, I just checked. It was at the top of some feed or other, because I certainly didn’t go looking for it.
the dude who has admitted on Lemmy to being a former member of several neo-nazi forums because he finds nazis “interesting” is being an asshole. that’s shocking.
and are experiencing cultural erasure and Human Rights abuses
If you believe that, then you believe there is a genocide. Because cultural erasure is genocide.
Every genocide in history has been accompanied by mass murder… except this one apparently. 🤔
The definition of genocide by the UN convention:
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
© Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
If the target is to destroy a group as a group and any of these acts are committed, it is genocide. Mass murder is the “prevalent” act, but it is not a requirement for genocide.
And yet the UN and ICJ don’t call it genocide.
That’s because there is no evidence of intent to destroy their ethnic group. That’s why mass murder is basically necessary, because that’s what shows intent. Transferring children to different families can be done without intent, I’m sure you can imagine situations where someone has their children taken that are unrelated to genocide? I know I can.
The ICJ is a court and as such slow. As for statements showing intent, there is a plethora of statements, from comparing Palestinians to biblical “Amalek” (Netanyahu), over saying it is “unfortunate” that the world won’t let Israel just starve all people in Gaza to death (Ben Gvir) to public broadcast employees saying they want to commit another Holocaust in Gaza.
The fact that so many of these are empty and stupid anti-communist smears is fascinating. Vietnam did genocide against South Vietnam, collectivization of farmland in the USSR was genocide against land owning peasants? Really?
Deeply unserious, to the point of actually being genocide denial. Genocide is the crime of crimes. This “cultural genocide” invention actually equivocates the crimes of the worst regimes in history with what are, ultimately, not even crimes. Look at Xinjiang province and compare it to Gaza. It’s fucking night and day.
This “cultural genocide” invention
It was “invented” in the very same book that coined the term genocide. Cultural genocide has been a part of genocide since the very inception of the concept of genocide. I shouldn’t have to explain that multiple things can fit in the same category without being equal. Playing whataboutism games as an excuse to deny ongoing genocides is a supremely bad look.
We’re more than happy (at least those of us on the left) to admit Australia’s “stolen generation” was an act of genocide. I’m not as well-informed about it, but my understanding is that Canada’s “residential school system” has been even more widely recognised as such. The concept of cultural genocide is pretty well established and widely accepted in leftist circles. The only exception to this seems to be tankies trying to deny China’s own examples of it in Tibet and Xinjiang.
The stolen generation, the residential schools, these don’t exist in a vacuum. Canada and Australia ran extermination campaigns to reduce populations before they started taking children. They’re genocidal because they’re part of a broader campaign of genocide, you can’t just divorce them from the broader genocide as a separate crime.
That’s what I mean when I say cultural genocide has always worked alongside ethnic cleansing and mass murder campaigns and extermination. They’re not separate things. Divorcing it from them as it’s own unique crime of “cultural genocide” makes no sense and essentially devalues the power of genocide accusations.
Let’s try a hypothetical then. Without any mass murder or extermination campaigns, if a group forcibly enacted birth control on another group, would that be genocide? How about taking all children of that group and raising them outside of their ethnic background, therefore forcibly erasing their cultural and ethnic identity? How would those differ from other acts that don’t involve direct violence, like starvation campaigns? I agree with you on the point that using the term "cultural genocide"does devalue it though, but I just also personally believe that anything that seeks to erase a cultural, ethnic or other identity is genocide.
“Actually nuh uh, because, you see, I said so”
How profound. Do you have anything of value to say, or are you too belligerent to unconditionally repudiate your wrongness and humble yourself?
The genocide convention doesn’t actually cover this. The threshold for the crime of genocide is high, it is the crime of crimes. “Cultural genocide” in the absence of extermination/mass murder/ethnic cleansing does not meet that threshold.
It’s not just me that says so, the UN says so. The ICJ says so. They don’t call it genocide because it isn’t genocide.
Bringing Wikipedia to a gun fight 🤣 Yes, I’m aware of and accept the UNCPPCG and other such definitions that include cultural genocide.
This is neither the time or place to get into it, so I won’t, but I’ve gotten into it elsewhere dozens of times, including with .world’s top rules pervert.
Oh yay, the tankie supreme has joined the conversation. To share…a link to a search page? The irony of thinking a Lemmy search page is a useful link, in a comment that criticises Wikipedia.
(1) I’ve been here for the last two days and (2) didn’t I just say that I’m not going to get into it here? It’s very far off topic from goat banning dbzer0 users from MoG.
Db0 is a bit of a power tripper NGL. He is very accepting of everyone’s beliefs as long as they don’t contradict his own.
Don’t involve me here. I haven’t even done anything in this drama cycle. You just have an ax to grind against me.
I think you’re confusing that for goat.
PLEASE DELETE THIS POST IMMEDIATELY OR I WILL CONTACT THE AUTHORITIES
GDNW
THAT STANDS FOR GOAT DID NOTHING WRONG
STAND STRONG GOAT I LOVE YOU
This reads like a trump post.
thank you i have several posters of him on my ceiling
Is this the same goat who caused a stir a few months ago because they wouldn’t shut up about “reverse racism”?
Edit: I couldn’t find the reverse racism stuff, but I put together everything I did find https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52444570
Sounds like the guy running a nazi bar might in fact be fitting in with his clientele a bit too well.
I’ve been watching this drama with great amusement.
It seems like goat is trolling an entire instance and I think that’s just the bee’s knees.
Not that I have a problem with db0 I think you guys are cool and aren’t HilariousChaos which is cool too.
I feel db0 and hc are the same just on opposite sides politically. Both get called extremists by the other side for tolerating people on their own side. A real symbol of federated tolerance would be those 2 instances being able to federate with eachother. I’ve spoken to the admins on both sides via matrix and they are both reasonable and I would like to see them both come to an agreement of refederating and agreeing that their own users need to take responsibility for their behaving on and being accepting of other peoples instances.
This you? @muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.com
Yep so is !muntedcrocodile@lemmy.dbzer0.com
So that account is a ban evasion. https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/modlog?actionType=ModBan&userId=9576962
I think almost everyone involved in this drama is being extremely rude and unreasonable and needs to take a break from Lemmy for a bit. But yeah this is obviously petty and ridiculous.
To me it’s yet another example of why we need private voting or this place is just going to eat itself alive. I’ve already basically stopped voting because of this new vote drama trend.
It becomes even easier to manipulate votes with private voting.
Fake Internet points don’t matter.
Whatever man. irrelephant, you are pretty free with your own mod activities, don’t respond when questioned, and basically don’t discuss what you do. So why would anyone care if you don’t like some shit? Why talk to you about it, when you won’t talk about the shit you do as a mod?
I restored the post, because I was bored.
It’s almost like the Lemmy mod structure promotes authoritarian abuse and is extremely flawed. I feel like more leftists should understand it’s more about the systems than the individuals.
You’re not wrong, but in this case they were complaining about me removing this post (which I restored, because why not), and not answering DMs they sent, which I did not receive.
I didn’t even ban the person.Well no. I banned you.
I was the last poster in your old comm, and the first one in the new comm after your migration. Whether you even realized it, that’s what you lose when you don’t communicate.
And I stopped posting after our encounter.
I’ll now contribute there again. Because, why not?
Wait, when was I questioned?
Just look in your chat log. I’ve a pretty unique nic, as do you.
But you don’t respond to public questions in your comms either.Which account was it? All the messages on my lemm.ee one are gone (instance is gone).
I guess my instance purges old direct messages? I had no idea they went away after a time. I don’t have it either.
Ya took down my silly cat pic in that dead-ass iiitttttt com. Off topic. Didn’t reply to me.
It’s old news. I just said screw you and stopped posting to your comm.I had guessed it was that. I mean, it was off topic, unless I’m missing something.
I dd not agree. You did not reply. And not replying seems to be your default in public as well.
Like, you moved the comm to another instance. There was a lot of subsequent discussion of that. People wanted to know what the comm was even about. Thats about the time you nuked my cat pic. No - comment.
You seemed to be mining the old comm and recycling content. Nope, you had no comment.
I have no issue in general with you or your comm. I still read it.
But its fun watching you whine about another mod.The comm isn’t mine, I just mod it. I try to reply to stuff, but I can miss things (like that DM).
I’m pretty sure I explained the comm to most people who asked about it.
I restored the cat picture, but I think it should have been left removed.
for additional context, I made a thread about this exchange on hexbear, documenting the issues with the culture on MoG. Specifically the use of ‘degenerate’ as a pejorative being a red flag.
i wasn’t aware, is there a problem with that word? sorry if this is an insensitive question
The term is deeply tied to both eugenics and fascism, Nazis would label modernist art, queer people, Jews, disabled people, and leftists as “degenerate”. There really isn’t a reading that’s not describing people as subhuman.
Using it assumes there’s a “pure” social body and that some people are contaminants. It’s a pretty clear indication that the user is operating from a worldview fundamentally at odds with anyone that values solidarity and liberation.
“degenerates” as a pejorative is almost exclusively used in crypto-fascist and red-brown spaces.
“degenerates” as a pejorative is almost exclusively used in crypto-fascist and red-brown spaces.
Completely ridiculous. A word doesn’t belong to alt-right losers just because it becomes popular on 4chan for a bit. I’ve used “degenerate” and heard it used many times. No need to fence off our language, just so you can have a shallow easy make believe reason to ascribe someone to a hate group.
I’ve used “degenerate” and heard it used many times.
self report
If you’re referring to other people as subhuman people are going to come to conclusions about your worldview.
Sorry but you are just out of touch. Its a normal word used by the population at large. Thinking using the word “degenerate” means being a crypto fascist is top tier silly.
Try as hard as you might to lump me in with them because of the use of a common word (lol), I will never be any kind of fascist.
I actually think the short form “degen” is popular amongst the younger generations.
In any caze, it’s asinine behavior. It’s weak. You’re basically just looking for the easiest way to write someone off, like above. Instead of actually thinking about what I was saying, you just gave a trite remark. You protect yourself by turning everyone you disagree with into another fascist that can’t possibly have a point.
If you’re referring to other people as subhuman then people are going to come to conclusions about your worldview.
You protect yourself by turning everyone you disagree with into a fascist that can’t possibly have a point.
The post here is about the goat (and associated clowns) that specialize in turning everyone they disagree with into a ‘tankie’ that can’t possibly have a point.
Actual definition of degenerate when referring to a person:
“an immoral or corrupt person.”
The post here is about the goat (and associated clowns) that specialize in turning everyone they disagree with into a ‘tankie’ that can’t possibly have a point.
Yes, the behavior is dumb in both cases. I’d argue what you are doing is worse since your decision hinges on non sensical surface analysis of the persons vocabulary.
I’ve also been called a tankie and I hate the liberal use of the word. It kind of shows just how off base your assumptions are.
A word doesn’t belong to alt-right losers just because it becomes popular on 4chan for a bit.
It came from Nazis, from Hitler and Goebbels. 4chan picked it up because 4chan has a lot of racists & neo-Nazis.
All I’m saying is treating the word as a dog whistle is dumb. It not a code word for “undesirables” or wtv fucked up shit the nazis and 4chan are using it for. Normal people use it with the new agreed upon definition.
Part of me also thinks it’s caving into 4chan and the like. It’s encouraging their definition even though it hasn’t been valid for a few decades already. They don’t get to define the word and I won’t stop using it because of them essentially.
Normal people use it using the new agreed upon definition.
That’s the old, pre-fascist, pre-eugenicist definition, not a new one, and no, we don’t use it, because we haven’t been living under a rock for the last ninety years. We know what a dog whistle is.
Languages evolve I guess. I know blink 182 had a song named “degenerate”. If I enter the word in chosic, I get 7000 hits (songs with the word in the lyrics). I find the expression “degenerate gambler” is kind of common? Idk.
Just trying to show that the word is common and lost it’s ties to nazis and fascists a long time ago. Just a regular but harsh insult imo, but wtv.
It not a code word for “undesirables”
except that’s literally the fucking dictionary definition of it
TBH I didn’t think goat’s obvious bullshit needed or deserved a response.
Giving moderators the ability to view who has voted on posts has been disastrous.
