Modlog: https://sh.itjust.works/modlog/25693?page=1&actionType=All&userId=21053985 , banned by @goat@sh.itjust.works
For context, goat started calling dbzer0 users tankies, and got into a few arguments.
More context:
It started (to my knowledge) with this comment, goat pinged db0 after he downvoted a comment
a note on the uyghurs (click to show
For the record, I believe that the Uyghurs are mistreated by the CCP, and are experiencing cultural erasure and Human Rights abuses, but there’s a lack of evidence that it’s a genocide specifically (especially since it seems to target the religion, rather than the ethnic group).
Goat banned IndustryStandard, leading to this thread: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52160152/ leading to goat commenting this:
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52160152/21070262
He mentions this:
We constantly encounter bots, spammers, alt accounts, trolls, and doxxers, so I need to be vigilant by regularly checking who’s interfering and from where.
Which I find ironic, since there was some vote manipulation happening, which goat did nothing about (and could be behind), but I’ll get to that later.
After some more arguments, goat started calling dbzer0 users tankies, saying that letting tankie users engage on dbzer0 comms means other users are tankies:
He said that it’s different for LW (lemmy.world) and SJW (sh.itjust.works, not the other word). He then poster the “Tank Man” picture to !flippanarchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com, as he expected us to retaliate (being tankies, according to him). We did not, in fact, retaliate: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21089819
He also posted this in tankiejerk: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52268655, https://sh.itjust.works/comment/20733015.
He also may have done vote manipulation, and at the very least allowed it.
Take, for example, this comment: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21091723
Per lemvotes, it was downvoted by the following users:
The relevant ones here are:
- zedbite@lemmy.world,
- Alpacaaca@lemmy.cafe,
- chirichiri@sh.itjust.works.
If you look through other comments, they downvoted me and other users near-systemically, while upvoting comments made by goat.
For example, take a look at their (respective) lemvotes profile pages: https://lemvotes.org/user/zedbite@lemmy.world https://lemvotes.org/user/Alpacaaca@lemmy.cafe https://lemvotes.org/user/chirichiri@sh.itjust.works
They have all downvoted exclusively arguments against goat and others, and were made almost at the same time.
After a bit more arguing (I’m not posting the specific comments because it’s tedious, and they’re easy to see by scrolling through goat’s profile.) goat decided to ban all dbzer0 users from meanwhileongrad, I think this comment marks when he decided to do this, but I may be wrong.
note on the post that comment was in reply to
I think this reply (by unruffled) was taken out of context. Unruffled is absolutely not defending what’s happening to the Uyghurs, they’re saying that a lot of people have a double standard, where they will not hesitate to condemn the Uyghur genocide, but hesitate on the gaza one, especially when the gaza one is more severe and urgent. To quote them directly:
Yes, that’s exactly what I was saying but of course they misrepresented it. You know exactly what Americans are like. They couldn’t give a shit about the uyghurs, except as a way to China bash and feel superior. I also explicitly said later in the comments I agreed it was a genocide. They’re just doin’ the usual bad faith takes.
Feel free to quote me lol
Since this goat had been banned from dbzer0 for being hostile:
https://sh.itjust.works/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=63615
deleted by creator
many anarchists used to be members of authcom communities because they found it interesting. i don’t think what our worldviews were when we were young defines who we are
Is that true? For what value of “many”? My impression is that—in the Anglosphere anyway—“auth” communists who once were anarchists is even more common. We’re fed a lifetime of anti-communist propaganda, and comparatively little ant-anarchist, and I think that people seldom arrive there along a straight path.
I’d like to see a breakdown of anarchists per capita by country. I think it’s predominantly a Western movement, but I don’t have data to back that up.
That’s called a self report.
deleted by creator
Ok, I’m on it:
When they were founded
deleted by creator
Mmhhmm, because Nazis don’t love pretending to be communists on the internet, and half of them aren’t run by Russian fascists in the first place.
Libs sure do love to think that Russia is behind every bad thing while they themselves argue for things like colonialism.
Nice strawmanning and libjacketing
and are experiencing cultural erasure and Human Rights abuses
If you believe that, then you believe there is a genocide. Because cultural erasure is genocide.
Every genocide in history has been accompanied by mass murder… except this one apparently. 🤔
The definition of genocide by the UN convention:
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
© Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
If the target is to destroy a group as a group and any of these acts are committed, it is genocide. Mass murder is the “prevalent” act, but it is not a requirement for genocide.
And yet the UN and ICJ don’t call it genocide.
That’s because there is no evidence of intent to destroy their ethnic group. That’s why mass murder is basically necessary, because that’s what shows intent. Transferring children to different families can be done without intent, I’m sure you can imagine situations where someone has their children taken that are unrelated to genocide? I know I can.
The ICJ is a court and as such slow. As for statements showing intent, there is a plethora of statements, from comparing Palestinians to biblical “Amalek” (Netanyahu), over saying it is “unfortunate” that the world won’t let Israel just starve all people in Gaza to death (Ben Gvir) to public broadcast employees saying they want to commit another Holocaust in Gaza.
The ICJ is not pursuing a case against China like they are against Israel.
The fact that so many of these are empty and stupid anti-communist smears is fascinating. Vietnam did genocide against South Vietnam, collectivization of farmland in the USSR was genocide against land owning peasants? Really?
Deeply unserious, to the point of actually being genocide denial. Genocide is the crime of crimes. This “cultural genocide” invention actually equivocates the crimes of the worst regimes in history with what are, ultimately, not even crimes. Look at Xinjiang province and compare it to Gaza. It’s fucking night and day.
This “cultural genocide” invention
It was “invented” in the very same book that coined the term genocide. Cultural genocide has been a part of genocide since the very inception of the concept of genocide. I shouldn’t have to explain that multiple things can fit in the same category without being equal. Playing whataboutism games as an excuse to deny ongoing genocides is a supremely bad look.
We’re more than happy (at least those of us on the left) to admit Australia’s “stolen generation” was an act of genocide. I’m not as well-informed about it, but my understanding is that Canada’s “residential school system” has been even more widely recognised as such. The concept of cultural genocide is pretty well established and widely accepted in leftist circles. The only exception to this seems to be tankies trying to deny China’s own examples of it in Tibet and Xinjiang.
The stolen generation, the residential schools, these don’t exist in a vacuum. Canada and Australia ran extermination campaigns to reduce populations before they started taking children. They’re genocidal because they’re part of a broader campaign of genocide, you can’t just divorce them from the broader genocide as a separate crime.
That’s what I mean when I say cultural genocide has always worked alongside ethnic cleansing and mass murder campaigns and extermination. They’re not separate things. Divorcing it from them as it’s own unique crime of “cultural genocide” makes no sense and essentially devalues the power of genocide accusations.
“Actually nuh uh, because, you see, I said so”
How profound. Do you have anything of value to say, or are you too belligerent to unconditionally repudiate your wrongness and humble yourself?
The genocide convention doesn’t actually cover this. The threshold for the crime of genocide is high, it is the crime of crimes. “Cultural genocide” in the absence of extermination/mass murder/ethnic cleansing does not meet that threshold.
It’s not just me that says so, the UN says so. The ICJ says so. They don’t call it genocide because it isn’t genocide.
Let’s try a hypothetical then. Without any mass murder or extermination campaigns, if a group forcibly enacted birth control on another group, would that be genocide? How about taking all children of that group and raising them outside of their ethnic background, therefore forcibly erasing their cultural and ethnic identity? How would those differ from other acts that don’t involve direct violence, like starvation campaigns? I agree with you on the point that using the term "cultural genocide"does devalue it though, but I just also personally believe that anything that seeks to erase a cultural, ethnic or other identity is genocide.
Bringing Wikipedia to a gun fight 🤣 Yes, I’m aware of and accept the UNCPPCG and other such definitions that include cultural genocide.
This is neither the time or place to get into it, so I won’t, but I’ve gotten into it elsewhere dozens of times, including with .world’s top rules pervert.
Oh yay, the tankie supreme has joined the conversation. To share…a link to a search page? The irony of thinking a Lemmy search page is a useful link, in a comment that criticises Wikipedia.
(1) I’ve been here for the last two days and (2) didn’t I just say that I’m not going to get into it here? It’s very far off topic from goat banning dbzer0 users from MoG.
Is this the same goat who caused a stir a few months ago because they wouldn’t shut up about “reverse racism”?
Edit: I couldn’t find the reverse racism stuff, but I put together everything I did find https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52444570
Sounds like the guy running a nazi bar might in fact be fitting in with his clientele a bit too well.
Your link doesn’t work anymore
PLEASE DELETE THIS POST IMMEDIATELY OR I WILL CONTACT THE AUTHORITIES
GDNW
THAT STANDS FOR GOAT DID NOTHING WRONG
STAND STRONG GOAT I LOVE YOU
This reads like a trump post.
thank you i have several posters of him on my ceiling
Db0 is a bit of a power tripper NGL. He is very accepting of everyone’s beliefs as long as they don’t contradict his own.
Don’t involve me here. I haven’t even done anything in this drama cycle. You just have an ax to grind against me.
Federate hilarious chaos so I can engage with the piracy com without switching accounts and all axes will be discarded.
We’re not gonna federate just to convenience you, mate.
I’m a bit confused about who Lemmydb0 federates with, why is hexbear ok but that instance not? I thought they shared users when hexbear almost went down.
(for context I have only used lemmy.world and shitjustworks, both of which defederate with both instances. I’m not really knowledge about anything regarding the specifics.)
Hilarious Chaos is a Nazi instance, not anywhere close to Hexbear. The closest instance to Hexbear is Lemmygrad.ml, because both Hex and Grad have the most Marxist-Leninists.
dbzer0 is federated with Hex because Hex is also an anarchist instance, Hex is federated with dbzer0 and Lemmygrad.ml, and to my knowledge none of these three are federated with HilariousChaos
I think you’re confusing that for goat.
goat started calling dbzer0 users tankies, saying that letting tankie users engage on dbzer0 comms means other users are tankies
Tankie used to mean something, damn it!
I mean not really, it was always used as a pejoritive, similar to Commie or Pinko, and it has not so subtly been moving to encompase more and more. Even at the start it was used to disreguard anyone who was too “Left wing” so this was an enevitable conclusion of the term
It did? Lol
In the 1950s, in the UK, “Tankie” was used as perjorative among members of the Communist Party of Great Britain, to describe those in the party who supported the Soviet invasion of Hungary.
The term has been so warped that now the people who coined it would also be considered Tankies by the liberals who love to throw the word around
To the fascist replying to me and other lemmy.ml users, sorry for not responding, but we can’t see your racist, misogynist, dehumanizing rants because you were banned from lemmy.ml two months ago 💅
Considering the low bar it takes to get banned from .ml… That doesn’t mean a lot
Whatever man. irrelephant, you are pretty free with your own mod activities, don’t respond when questioned, and basically don’t discuss what you do. So why would anyone care if you don’t like some shit? Why talk to you about it, when you won’t talk about the shit you do as a mod?
I restored the post, because I was bored.
It’s almost like the Lemmy mod structure promotes authoritarian abuse and is extremely flawed. I feel like more leftists should understand it’s more about the systems than the individuals.
You’re not wrong, but in this case they were complaining about me removing this post (which I restored, because why not), and not answering DMs they sent, which I did not receive.
I didn’t even ban the person.Well no. I banned you.
I was the last poster in your old comm, and the first one in the new comm after your migration. Whether you even realized it, that’s what you lose when you don’t communicate.
And I stopped posting after our encounter.
I’ll now contribute there again. Because, why not?
Haha OK it was a broader point: I’ve never seen or heard anything about your modding so I know nothing. But it is a common issue both on Reddit and here. The issue is that there is no structure to provide users with actual power to influence their communities other than voting on content. And moderation supersedes this power.
Wait, when was I questioned?
Just look in your chat log. I’ve a pretty unique nic, as do you.
But you don’t respond to public questions in your comms either.Which account was it? All the messages on my lemm.ee one are gone (instance is gone).
I guess my instance purges old direct messages? I had no idea they went away after a time. I don’t have it either.
Ya took down my silly cat pic in that dead-ass iiitttttt com. Off topic. Didn’t reply to me.
It’s old news. I just said screw you and stopped posting to your comm.I had guessed it was that. I mean, it was off topic, unless I’m missing something.
I dd not agree. You did not reply. And not replying seems to be your default in public as well.
Like, you moved the comm to another instance. There was a lot of subsequent discussion of that. People wanted to know what the comm was even about. Thats about the time you nuked my cat pic. No - comment.
You seemed to be mining the old comm and recycling content. Nope, you had no comment.
I have no issue in general with you or your comm. I still read it.
But its fun watching you whine about another mod.The comm isn’t mine, I just mod it. I try to reply to stuff, but I can miss things (like that DM).
I’m pretty sure I explained the comm to most people who asked about it.
I restored the cat picture, but I think it should have been left removed.
Hmm quite the spicy thread you have here. May I taste?
Hmm honestly a bit too elaborate, seems like I need a PhD in lemmy to follow all the ramifications…
Fasch shithead mod blanket banning a server for being any kind of explicit left and associating with tankies.
Yep, the second the anarchists weren’t in 100% lock-step with the cryptofascists, the cryptofash started lumping in the anarchists with the Marxists as “tankies.” I called this a long time ago.
That whole community is literally doxing
How is it doxxing?
huh, turns out having a vague, poorly defined label anyone could use to deride and write someone off as a pinko commie at a moment’s notice was a bad idea, who could’ve possibly seen this coming
nah, tankies suck.
people want to keep pretending like it means things it doesn’t, but that doesn’t change what it means.
it’s like how governments try to call everyone terrorists… terrorism still means something… it’s blowing up random civilians for political means.
it’s still bad to be a terrorist….‘Tankie’ means ‘a person who is correct’.
‘tankie’ means online shill pretending to be a tankie
Two notes on your Uighurs note:
1- You can absolutely have religion-based genocide. Our old friend ISIS has one under its belt.
2- The Uighurs are absolutely being targeted for their ethnicity. I mean, even the official excuse is Uighur separatism. That’s why characteristics of Uighur culture and language unrelated to religion are also being targeted. It’s also why the other Muslim groups in China (and there are many of them; Uighurs aren’t even the largest Muslim ethnic group in China) aren’t targeted like the Uighurs are. The goal is to make Turkic peoples in Xinjiang either cease to matter or cease to exist; the fact that those groups tend to be majority Muslim is a geographical coincidence.
The goal is to make Turkic peoples in Xinjiang either cease to matter or cease to exist;
Of course, because of Jason Bourne and the Han Supremacy. As we know from the features of the Mongoloid brain pan, Han Chinese are ruthless, devious, and have little regard for human life.
This shit is just wypipo projecting their 500 years of racist, imperialist, genocidal history onto their perceived enemy today. It’s re-warmed orientalism for the new cold war. Uyghurs have lived there for centuries, but now all of a sudden the Han want to wipe them from existence, because… what? They woke up on the wrong side of the bed at the turn of the millennium?
Why would people of a millennia-long multi-ethnic culture, whose standard of living has been steadily improving over the last several decades with no sign of stopping, want to go on a genocidal rampage?
This is “everything I don’t like is antisemitism” levels of denialism.
Nobody said this was something the people wanted to do. It’s said to be what the authorities thought are the most effective measures for countering terrorism.
Yes, people have said it. You can find plenty of talk about “Han supremacy” in articles and from people online, including Lemmy.
Fine, nobody here. You can also find plenty of talk conflating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism in the same amount of articles and people online.
I think almost everyone involved in this drama is being extremely rude and unreasonable and needs to take a break from Lemmy for a bit. But yeah this is obviously petty and ridiculous.
To me it’s yet another example of why we need private voting or this place is just going to eat itself alive. I’ve already basically stopped voting because of this new vote drama trend.
It becomes even easier to manipulate votes with private voting.
Fake Internet points don’t matter.
How can you say they don’t matter when you have a strong position on them and the importance of how they’re implemented?
It does dictate what people see first. It’s easy to bury a subject with a few bots.
I’ve been watching this drama with great amusement.
It seems like goat is trolling an entire instance and I think that’s just the bee’s knees.
Not that I have a problem with db0 I think you guys are cool and aren’t HilariousChaos which is cool too.
I feel db0 and hc are the same just on opposite sides politically. Both get called extremists by the other side for tolerating people on their own side. A real symbol of federated tolerance would be those 2 instances being able to federate with eachother. I’ve spoken to the admins on both sides via matrix and they are both reasonable and I would like to see them both come to an agreement of refederating and agreeing that their own users need to take responsibility for their behaving on and being accepting of other peoples instances.
This you? @muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.com
Yep so is !muntedcrocodile@lemmy.dbzer0.com
So that account is a ban evasion. https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/modlog?actionType=ModBan&userId=9576962
hc tolerates transphobia; db0 doesn’t.
Which is why db0 is cool and I’m on a mission against HilariousChaos.
Being an asshole to absolutely everyone is now trolling?
I mean isn’t that the whole point of trolling?
- Trying to wipe out a religion (and not a specific religious belief) is cultural genocide
- Db0 is a shithead
- The db0 admins ban users for voting, and I believe in holding people to their own standards, so goat confronting db0 for voting is fine in my book
- Just move instance if you don’t like the consequences of using db0
Db0 is a shithead
Well, fuck you too, mate.
😂😂😂
Just kidding buddy I love you. Everything in my above comment was ironic. I mean, I wasn’t very happy with you back when you were an anarchist, but now that you’re banning people for downvoting AI and denying the fake uyghur genocide I’m on your side all the way. Let’s destroy the west together ❤️
since when did db0 stop being anarchist???
Trust the plan ☭ 👸♦️even more confusing.
