Apparently I’m now a shitlib for not buying into this disgusting tankie propaganda that it was all the Wests fault and Stalin had to ally with Hitler.
For a mod who loves to ban others for bad jacketing, they sure have no problem doing it to other anarchists.
The Ban:
The Context:
Seems like a bad call to me too, PTB. I’ll reverse the ban.
Sorry but this is PTB. Criticizing Stalin and the USSR doesn’t make one a liberal. Wtf.
Just for context, won’t really engage further with this: I take 0 issue with people criticizing Stalin, the USSR etc. I’m not a Stalinist, ML nor MLM.
It was only for that specific insulting comment and claiming the USSR outright allied with fascist Germany. Literally every day that kept Germany from fully carrying out Generalplan Ost and Operation Barbarossa in general saved countless lives and allowed for proper industrialisation, later allowing a war effort at all.
I do not have any interest in engaging with people using that tone and straying from proper discussion (again, 0 problems with people trying to discuss things even if erroneous) and do not want them part of the com, it’s as shrimple as that.
I took no issue with OP of that specific thread.
You banned me for being a shitlib, not for being ‘insulting’.
Because it read like a shitlib take ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Edit: and shitlibs usually are insulting too
Is “shitlib” not insulting?
But not you. You’d never be insulting to anyone.
I love how all tankie defense boils down to “dO yOuR OwN ReSeArCh”
Wish it was only tankies. But with them, there’s the additional implication that all aspects of Soviet history should be public knowledge, and if you do not know these things that alone makes you a … reactionary? capitalist bootlicker? Something like that.
My experience with these people is that they are extremely selectively informed about Soviet history. So ironically, they are actually quite ignorant on the topic, but they expect only their very specific cherry-picked facts and interpretations to be well understood by everyone, but none of the context or intervening events that might paint the USSR as anything other than the most benevolent organization in all of history.
Where “your own research” means “Cowbee’s research.”
What is cowbee? Google isn’t helping
A blatherer whose every response seems to involve trying to get someone to read a book that i’m starting to suspect they wrote, or are actually a fourteen year old who read their first thing that Spoke to them.
Cowbee did not write Blackshirts and Reds. Lol
There was way more nuance to the situation. The moderator linked a summary of the false equivalence, as well as the extra context.
you showed up to be like: “fucked up, tankie defending Nazi alliance” as if history began and ended in 1939.
YDI, I can see how you ended up a ‘world news’ moderator though
That summary is terrible, though. It claims shit like the soviets “hated” germany / the nazis, ignoring shit like the Treaty of Rapallo wherein the violent suppression of communists by the German government (not yet the nazis, yes) was freely forgiven by the soviet union, and which played a huge role in the interaction between the Soviet government and the Weimar / Nazi governments. It also relies heavily on the writings of Grover Furr, a flag even redder than the Soviet’s in any political discussion about the time period.
Grover Furr’s credibility is best explained by this blurb from his wikipedia page:
Furr has written books, papers, and articles about Soviet history, especially the Stalin era, in which he has stated that the Holodomor, the 1932–33 famine in the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, was not deliberate, describing it as a fiction created by pro-Nazi Ukrainian nationalists, that the Katyn massacre was committed by the Nazi Schutzstaffel and not the Soviet NKVD, that all defendants in the Moscow Trials were guilty as charged, that claims in Nikita Khrushchev’s speech On the Cult of Personality and Its Consequences are almost entirely false, that the purpose of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact was to preserve the Second Polish Republic rather than partition it, and that the Soviet Union did not invade Poland in September 1939, on the grounds that the Polish state no longer existed.
Seriously, just go read Furr’s site (it’s incredibly difficult to parse due to how it’s presented. He loves having multiple interlinked web pages with little context provided as to how the specifics relate, so fair warning that it’s a slog.) The most blatant thing to point out is how he provides baseless in-text explanations of things like the meanings of specific language used in the M-R Pact which are completely unaddressed elsewhere in his explanation. It’s maddening to see him treated as a scholar in this field, as though statements provided in inline parenthetical / editorial asides are somehow exempt from the need for citations
or that anything he does is acceptable academic behavior.Back to Cowbee though: they completely misrepresent the “4/5 of dead Nazis” statistic, ignoring things like:
- Troop allocations between the western and eastern fronts were wildly disproportionate
- The seven other countries that contributed troops to the war on the eastern front (and then assign credit for all those nazi deaths to the USSR, of course)
- That, thanks to the willingness of Nazis to surrender to the western forces, the western front captured more than 10x the number of Nazi soldiers they killed (~3,500,000 captured to 375,000 killed) which is a million more than the soviets killed (this does not include the additional 3.5million ‘disarmed forces’ since those are only somewhat admissible here and is a hugely complex topic on it’s own)
There is a very real discussion to be had on how related, truly, were the two countries prior to the war, for example: They were close enough that the USSR even allowed the Nazis to run a tank training school, fighter pilot school and chemical weapons proving ground in their territory, which was closed soon after the reichstag fire as the political differences between the two countries became more solidifed as hitler rose to power). How much of that earlier cooperation survived? Important to discuss, and misrepresented by all sides in nearly all directions for an endless procession of political reasons. That solidification of differences is a truly fascinating topic and one fraught with complexity and intrigue and is a great subject to debate (in good faith), but the debate Cowbee is presenting is full of misinformation and absolute rampant bullshit from a king of misrepresenting history.
edit: misformatted link
edit 2: words are hard
About the tank school (not reading all this RN): It was for the Reichswehr, which was the army of the Weimar republic.
Also please read your own links, the 2nd paragraph of the wiki page reads:Following the Nazi party’s rise to power, the school was closed and Germany’s Tank Force and Air Force were trained in Germany.
So you didn’t even bother to read the 2nd half of that sentence, where I explicitly state exactly what you’re calling me out for having excluded? Come on.
I even read the whole article and thus thought it regarded the school as a whole
Closure
In the early 1930s, the political situation for the tank school began to change. The Soviet Union opened itself to the West while Germany attempted a closer approach to France.[1]
In December 1932, Germany achieved being viewed as an equal at the Geneva Conference, making the secret schools somewhat unnecessary. With the rise of the Nazis to power in January 1933, the ideological gap between fascist Germany and the communist Soviet Union became too large and the tank school at Kazan was closed in late 1933
I’m honestly not sure what you mean. How does the article regarding the school as a whole factor into anything being discussed, or at all address how you were trying to present my arguments as lacking credibility because of an oversight in my citations based on a point I addressed in the same sentence?
The main reason for my original comment was the following:
They were close enough that the USSR even allowed the Nazis to run a tank training school […]
Which again (intentionally or not) misrepresents historical fact. Weimar Germany was not at all the Third Reich…
tankie punks fuck off
I’m actually an anarchist, but you’re gonna use whatever pejorative makes you comfortable
You just like to say you are. You’re anti-ukraine and from russia. You put up more tankie posts and anti-dem posts than anything critical of the repubs.
You’re a tankie.
The reason I am often pissed at the democrats is due to how bad they are at actually opposing the republicans.
You’re just a ‘team blue’ maga type
You’re just a ‘team blue’ maga type
If I search for “maga house”, “maga car”, “maga outfit”, I’m going to get some very specific images as a result.
Please show me an example of this “blue maga” in image form.
I hate to be defending a .ml user, and Diva of all people, but you asked so here you go:
All of this is going to get an anti-trans Democrat like Gavin Newsom elected to office. This is what people mean when they say ‘Blue MAGA’. It follows the exact same “cult of personality” populist playbook as MAGA.
PTB and on the basis of blatant misinfo as well. Disappointing
deleted by creator
Linking to anything Cowbee said as “fact” is insane.
PTB, Defending stalin for siding with nazis is crazy
Defending Stalin, period. Is crazy. He arguably killed more people than Hitler…
true, idk why ur getting downvoted
Because tankies don’t like it.
I’m banned from there for publicly calling out one of the mods for covertly supporting the American right-wing. I deserve the ban, let’s be clear, I intentionally went out of my way to spam warnings across the community. That said, the moderation of that comm seems to be getting worse since I was last there.
PTB.
Edit: To be clear, this was the same moderator, who seems to be the head moderator, and in light of this, it now seems clear that they weren’t just supporting the American right-wing, but moreso supporting any and all totalitarianism.
