Not TV, but I’ve told people to skip the first two books in the Discworld series, Sir Terry doesn’t really get into his stride till a little later, but book three is where his talent starts to shine.
Yeah, though even then there’s a lot of growth. Comparing The Theif of Time, Thud, or I Shall Wear Midnight to Sourcery just feels unfair to the latter.
Or start with Small Gods, everyone who likes discworld likes Small Gods. It stands alone, it’s clever, but has some of the early book style, and it’s regularly referenced by the fans.
Bob’s Burgers, Season 3.
Seasons 1 and 2 the seeds were there, but on the other hand they were trying to be yet another Adult-Swim style “edgy” show in the wake of Family Guy. Once that phase passed, the show found a real heart while the humor and storytelling grew up a bit. Now, it’s been one of the most genuinely special things on television for a long time.
The Good Place gets good in the season 1 finale
It starts out pretty good. It’s not like TNG or something where you’d say “No, start at season 3, and just don’t watch Code Of Honor.” The Good Place starts out watchable and fun, and then the season 1 finale has an “Oh SHIT!” moment and then you’ve gotta finish it.
Yeah, the thing about The Good Place is you can’t just start at the episode where things get really good, you gotta see the buildup to it
And you’ll watch season 1 again on your second watch, even though it has minimum Derek.
Farscape Season 1, Episode 19, the one which introduces Scorpius. That said, you really do need to watch most of the preceding episodes or else nothing is going to make any frelling sense and you’ll think you’ve gone fahrbot.
Now I’m imagining someone tuning in to Farscape for the first time on a Harvey episode, and trying to make any sense at all out of anything they were watching.
First season on Parks and Rec is not good. Redid the concept and one character season 2 and was awesome season 3 onwards
Parks and rec has the same issue trailer park boys has.
Season 1 is absolutely pure to the format and is therefore technically superior, but the characters and situations you love dont materialise until later.
Parks and Rec does not follow the pattern you describe. Season 2 was a big format and tone switch.
Its been a while since I seen it, but they both try to be mockumentaries with talking to the cameraman for plot exposition, and then they both give up on any attempt at realism with it quite quickly right?
Unless im forgetting something crucial
P&R dropped one primary cast member in season 2 and rewrote the rest of the characters significantly. Changed personalities and shifted relationships, it was a big shift in tone and cast.
They scaled back a lot of inter-character drama, made all the characters more relatable, and made the depicted workplace more cohesive and less adversarial.
Gradual character development is totally normal, just like acquaintances take a while to turn into friends and later turn into really good friends. But that doesn’t devalue the good times you have with acquaintanaces. I enjoyed Parks & Rec and Trailer Park Boys right from the start, and then they both got better.
My go-to example for this is Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Season one is overall quite rough, however s01e19 “Duet” (second-to-last episode of the season) is IMO the first episode that shows true glimmers of promise. In season two the series starts to find its footing, by season three it’s proven itself to be Star Trek gold, and then the series manages to maintain its quality through to its seventh and final season.
Season 1 of DS9 was rough? Cries in TNG… 🤣
It is rough compared to the later stuff but, man, it got off to a WAY better start than TNG did… I mean, Riker had to grow a beard for the show to get good!
Sisko’s beard also improved DS9
He also had reverse Samson syndrome, had to lose his hair to gain power.
Very true!
IMO DS9’s s1 is way worse than TNG’s, but that might be because TNG has a nostalgia factor for me from watching random episodes as a kid, and so by the time I did a full start-to-finish watch-thru I already knew the characters well and understood that the series would get better, whereas I was an adult when I first watched DS9 and went into it completely blind (after watching the first two-parter episode I nearly cried, because I was on a mission to watch all of the 20th century Star Treks, and there were seven seasons of this to slog through!? And now it’s my favorite Star Trek series of all time.)
I think you mean episode 18, that one is the second-to-last of the season.
And that is exactly the episode I was thinking of, too. I didn’t know which episode number it was, I just remember when I was watching DS9, there was an episode with the filing clerk, and I thought, “Oh, this show is actually going to be great if it stays like this.” I just looked it up on IMDB, and it’s S1 E18.
Apparently it depends on whether you consider the series premiere as one episode or two; Wikipedia (which I used for reference) lists it as two separate episodes, providing a total s1 episode count of 20, vs imdb which lists it as one single episode, providing a total s1 episode count of 19. Memory Alpha lists the episode as s1e19, and I’m inclined to trust those nerds. At any rate I edited my comment to include the episode title for clarity.
Regardless, yeah, I think it’s probably a turning point episode for a lot of folks, and it’s the first of many war introspection episodes that help make the series timeless.
Oh, interesting. I’d go with Memory Alpha too, then. But yeah, definitely a pivot point in the series, and the first one that really took the post-war setting seriously.
Parks & Recs season one was pretty different from the rest of the show - not necessarly bad, just different, e.g. several popular characters didn’t exist yet. TBH I don’t remember when exactly they introduced substantial changes, but I think it was the start of season two.
The Venezuela sister city episode season 2 episode 5 is where it showed its true potential.
The humor lands, the characters have some consistency, and the vibe is consistent with the rest of the show. Yes, it was firing on all cylinders with Ben and Chris, but this episode is where it showed its stuff.
If you disagree, right to jail. Right away. No trial, no nothing. I have the best opinion… because of jail.
Disagree? Straight to jail.
Agree, but so strongly it seems rehearsed? Surprisingly, also jail.
We have the best agreements in the world, because of jail.
I feel like season one was trying too hard to be The Office, and then in season two it sheds that to become its own entity. I’ve heard that the writers sincerely considered s1’s less-than-stellar critical response and made changes to s2 accordingly (e.g. making Leslie Knope more likable and less dumb). It’s definitely a “don’t judge it until you’ve gotten at least part way through season two” series.
Most people say the start of Season 3 as Mark is off the show at the end of season 2 and Chris and Ben become full time characters, but the first Tammy episode is in season 2 so that’s my vote. It’s just too damn funny to pass over.
Parks & Recs is a very typical show that evolves from edgy comedy into feel-good romcom. American The Office did the same, Schitt’s Creek did the same, Superstore did it. At this point I’m not even sure if it’s by accident (the shows responding to what the audience wants) or if it’s by design (“let’s make typical show that goes from edgy to romcom”).
New girl did it too
Its because writing jokes forever gets harder and harder with every new season
But any old chump can write the characters falling in love and having their goals come to fruition and blah blah
I think it’s also because quirky characters get boring fast. So you can either keep making everyone crazier and crazier (like Veep or Archer) or you pivot into a romcom.
Archer was great for the “let’s start of the rails and see how far we can get from them” factor
That’s a crazy point. Huh. Yeah I can’t think of any examples of that kind of show that doesn’t besides the absolute unit that is Always Sunny.
Season 2, Episode 23 is the “real” start of the show IMHO. It’s the episode where Chris and Ben arrive, Mark takes a job somewhere else, and the gang celebrates April’s 21st birthday at the Snakehole Lounge. Also, most of the show’s eventual couples are also paired up in that episode - Leslie/Ben, Ann/Chris, April/Andy, and even Tom/Lucy.
Both Parks&Rec and Office were kinda rough in S1 and got significantly better is S2 I think.
i saw some clips of that show, went to watch it, and realised the rest of the epilodes were just padding around the clip-worthy stuff. it was so hollow.
I found that it had a lot of substance. Great show.
This is how I feel about it. I remember loving it when it was first airing. I did a rewatch a couple years back and couldn’t stand it. Can’t say I like a single character outside of Andy.
I forgot the exact episode, but I felt The Expanse was pretty mediocre until one of the last episodes of S1. I stuck with it because I was told prior to starting that it takes a while to get going. I’m glad I stuck with it, as it’s my favorite sci-fi show.
Expanse is a slow burn start. I personally think it was great from the start but will tell anyone to watch at least until E3 or 4 (episode called CQB). At that point if you don’t want to keep watching it’s likely not a good fit.
Yes absolutely 100%. That is my usual advice as well. If you get through episode 4 and you aren’t completely fucking hooked you might as well shut off the tv and sit in the dark and question your life choices.
For me its’ the opposite, it started strong (complex politics, realistic space travel) and by the end it turned into just another space opera about hardy space ship crew fighting space battles.
Damn, I watched the first two seasons before moving and never got around to finishing but those things were exactly what I was into. I thought the interplanetary politics were awesome
From what I understand there’s a lot of material from the books that didn’t make it into the show. I bet the politics were more extensive too.
The authors actually have cameos in the show. They were very involved in its conception and making. The books had a lot more details, little sub-stories, etc. The show made a few substantial changes, but IMHO they all made for better TV (like making Arwin a major character in Jackson’s LotR).
Fun fact: the authors initially intended for The Expanse to be a table top game.
Yeah, I was about halfway through S1 and I was thinking “why do people rave about this show?”
Also glad I stuck with it.
BoJack Horseman. I don’t have an exact episode for you, but the first few seem to be mostly world building and introducing a few themes that will come back later. Later half of s1 is where it starts to get good, and with s2 the show “properly” starts.
Episode 8, The Telescope.
I can narrow it down to one line, too. When Herb tells BoJack, “I don’t forgive you.” It flouted the usual sitcom formula, and marked a turn to more complex characters and darker themes.
Years ago i saw someone do a breakdown of what you’re talking about and if memory serves it’s the Herb episode that changes the vibe of the show. Until that point bojack feels like every other crude comedy on air but from that point on it breaks the traditional format. Its the first time on screen, and possibly in bojacks whole life(outside of family issues), that he faces consequences for his actions that have a serious negative impact on him and the fix is out of his control. In the face of this truth he spirals into a world of indulgence and avoidance and we the viewer begin to see the impact that has on those around him.
I think the comedy and overall quality of the early episodes is pretty solid, making those not bad episodes per se but rather deceptive ones. I personally enjoyed how the series takes its time in settling into its drama, and suspect it was an intentional metaphor for how the surface glitz and glamour of Hollywood obscures its dark underbelly.
Hmmm, that would make another good asklemmy thread: series with deceptive beginnings that obscure their true genre…
Yeah, there are some solid jokes in the early episodes, such as the paparazzi being unable to blackmail Bojack, because he’s too nihilistic, depressed, and numb to care.
And I also like the more subtle ones, such as Diane having one decent sibling, and he’s literally the black sheep of the family.
Must have been after I lost interest. I had always heard great things, but only made it a few episodes in.
I tried the first episode and it just felt depressing, not funny at all. Never looked back.
It’s depressing in a good way. It handles the telling of depression as a central theme really well. But holy fuck does “The View from Halfway Down” (towards the end of the series) really make it uncomfortable in this regard. Do not watch it unless you’re prepared for an overload of self reflection and existential dread.
well it is about mental health disorders…handles it really well imo.
Which is why I appreciate this thread, knowing that it gets better will help me give it another chance.
The Good Place really takes off at the end of the first season.
No way. Episode one was a banger.
Personally I consider The Good Place one of the rare shows that is solid all the way through without a single bad or weak episode, however the end of season one is certainly where it goes from great to fantastic.
For me, the twist at the end of season one retroactively makes the rest of season one better
alsimoneau figured it out? That’s a new low…
Ted Danson’s reaction to that scene is too perfect… That one hurts
Puella Magi Madoka Magica. Starts like the average random magical girl anime until episode 3, then suddenly deconstructs everything giving you an amazing whiplash. I had to beg a friend of mine to watch until ep3 because he absolutely could not stomach the first episode. He thanked me later
Madoka is like a blend of Sailor Moon, Made in Abyss and a drop of LSD for the artists
After the first season: The Office
Late first season: Breaking bad maybe
Every one I have forced to sit through the first 3 episodes of Red Dwarf has gone on to watch every episode and now incorporates quotes from the show in normal conversation.
Idk they had me from episode 1. Best episode though imo is tikka to ride
That’s because there are no bad episodes of Red Dwarf
They’re all dead
Most of Babylon 5’s first season really feels like discount store-brand Star Trek substitute. The show really starts to get its feet under itself somewhere around A Voice in the Wilderness and the Season 1 finale Chrysalis is the episode for which the term “wham episode” was coined.
B5 has the unique problem that it’s crap season 1 is kind of necessary homework for the rest of the show; it’s one continuous story, but on first watch the first season doesn’t feel like that because it’s a bunch of stuff that happens that comes into play later. So unlike TNG you can’t tell someone “just start at season 2.” You have to sit through the first season.
Not a unique problem. Farscape has the same issue. Most of season 1 is kinda mediocre, but you need to watch it for the good stuff later to make sense.
I mostly disagree, I can see where you’re coming from. Farscape has a lot of adventure of the week episodes that don’t really matter…and they genuinely don’t. Like I, E.T or Thank God It’s Friday, Again. Those keep happening though, like Take The Stone in Season 2. Farscape occasionally makes episodes that are good sci-fi but not very good television.
Most of the way through Season 1, Scorpius is introduced. Crais’ story has no froo froo symbolism, it’s a simple tale of a man who hates a guy. Scorpius is much more interesting as an overall villain because 1. he has motivations beyond the main cast, 2. he’s actually right and we’d be on his side if he wasn’t such an apocalyptic shitbastard about everything and 3. Harvey is the best character on the show. The overall plot kinda doesn’t exist until Scorpius shows up. But most of the season before it isn’t mandatory homework. There’s even an episode, I think it’s the three parter Liars, Guns and Money, where they recruit a bunch of the enemies they met over the early episodes, and kill most of them off, they head off to a different region and a lot of the lore built up to then is discarded.
I was more thinking of it from a character relationships standpoint. If you drop season 1 you lose a lot of that character depth.
American Dad is a fantastically funny show, but season 1 is basically unwatchable. Season 2 is a mixed bag. I’d recommend people just start watching from season 3 onward and only check out the earlier episodes as a curiosity.
American Dad is so underrated. Seth McFarlane is very funny, but you can tell that Fox saw Family Guy taking off and basically took it away from him, and he knew there was no sense in fighting it. But he started American Dad, and that’s where you can really see his comedy come through.
So many great episodes. In Country… Club is probably my all-time-favorite. So many others though, Irregarding Steve, The Abusive Terrestrial, The Vacation Goo, Spring Breakup, and Shallow Vows. And really anything with Roger
‘In Country… Club’ is the example episode I use to get people to try the show. It is so good and commits to hard to the premise.
We were kids, man!
I thought McFarlane had very little to do worth American dad, other than the voice, after the first few seasons?
Regardless it’s amazing. It turned from a critique of Republicans to some surrealist nonsense, it’s great.
I remember watching American Dad’s premiere and being excited for the concept but disappointed by the execution. You can tell there’s aspiration to be a good parody of the contemporary political climate in the first episode, but iirc it’s undermined by its crassness.
The Orville also struggled to get its footing in the early episodes; maybe Seth MacFarlane just does better once his series gets established?
I think they struggled early on for different reasons.
American Dad was too laser focused on being a political satire show and I just don’t think the writers were equipped to write a good political show. It just comes off as angry and with unlikable characters. Once it loosened up a little bit, having that political satire premise as a foundation gives the characters a baseline to work from and they all feel distinct because of it.
The Orville feels like Seth didn’t want to make a comedy. It feels to me like he just wanted to make Star Trek, but because he’s “a comedy guy” a lot of the humor, especially early on felt like it was put in to meet some expectation of Fox that a Seth show be a comedy.
