- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.zip
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I don’t like these kind of restrictions. Don’t allow ghost guns which means if your caught with one you can do time. Beyond that is overreach. You are not allowed to rob places but people can still try to do it and if caught go to jail (well maybe). Im not wild about preventing people from doing things as much as depending on them to either respect the law or face consequences from it.
They act like we have this big problem with 3d printed guns. This is about control not safety.
It’s to neutralize “right to repair” work.
Wow, they are doing so much to stop guns from getting into the wrong hands. I’m really glad the everyday issue of 3d printed guns will finally be solved.
Wait until they find out that you can make a shotgun with some galvanized pipe and a nail.
Are 3d printed guns even a problem? This whole thing is just a way to destroy peoples ability to do anything on their own, or repair anything.
3D printing working, safe-to-handle and durable guns is a pretty complicated technical problem. Don’t need to be a genius to figure out that making 100% plastic guns is asking for trouble. Tiny explosion = big plastic cracky.
Meanwhile, any monkey can bash together pieces of scrap metal and produce a durable gun that way. And that was a thing long, long before 3D printers existed.
Someone played Watch Dogs and got a-scared.
Not nearly as much of a problem as real guns that’s for goddamn sure.
Arm the Proletariat
I’ve been telling people to arm and practice for more than 10 years.
I would not practice with a 3d printed gun; they last like 3 shots, if even?
Gosh, if only it were illegal to manufacture and sell weapons without a license, then we wouldn’t need all this.
Video series worth a watch from 3D Printing Nurd.
These videos talk about the additive printing bill and how it essentially looking to make any “uncertified” 3d printer or even CNC machines illegal.
Strictest 3D Printing Regulation YET! California AB2047: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ax9zW0w_gY
3D Printing in California Can Be Saved! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGvvEuIPJxA
The FINAL Hearing in California: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6fpPStIAsY
I rember in the US police had an event where in an effort that has had some success getting guns off the street is they were paying $200 per gun you turned in, including ghost guns no questions asked. Some legend heard about the event and quickly made quite a few working guns out of 2"x4"s, metal plumbing pipe, and a nail. He only used basic tools like a drill and angle grinder from what I remember. The police had to pay him too, but I think they changed the rules after
One problem the left especially the global left outside the US has when they talk about gun control they flat out do not understand how things work when so many people want something as much as people want guns in the US. Also how hard it would be to actually change the constitution. They were not able to stop people smoking weed or drinking alcohol either. It’s going to have to be a major societal shift. I think there’s a good chance we will see that in the next 50 years.
I support gun control wherever it’s shown to actually work but a lot laws are being pushed by either someone with an alternative motive like the 3D printer laws, or have actually no clue and just want to put another law that sounds good to
The 3D printer laws are really a micro manufacturing and surveillance law that appears to be being pushed by a billionaire and a company in bed with palantir. It could kill open source 3d printers that are the only reason we have 3d printers in the first place. The guns people make with 3D printers require major components from actual guns that you can leagly buy because the parts are not considered a gun.
iirc some of the parts you need like the lower are considered guns, but your point still stands. the last paragraph, i mean. it’d just surveillance state horseshit with the added benefit of protecting corporate profits in an industry that was developed with public funds and innovation.
When you consider how many students were shoot with 3d printed guns… Oh wait, those were all manufactured by a proper business, carry on then, we don’t want to interrupt big businesses.
This is just the dumbest thing ever… So I can’t print a grip for a camera?
Uhhh nope. Palantir said so
“might stop anyone from 3D printing guns”
I can guarantee you that it won’t even do that.
It absolutely won’t do that. You know how many millions of early generation Prusa and Ender 3 printers are in the US? Many of these models have no internet connectivity whatsoever and print from SD card.
What that means is they will also try to incorporate spyware into your CAD and/or slicer software, which is even more invasive.
This is a anti-privacy bill.
I don’t even understand how they imagine this will work. Most printers are certainly not powerful enough to do real 3d object detection. Even if they forced slicers to include this, just fork OrcaSlicer and take it back out. Actually a lot of printers run open source software as well, so we can just fork klipper of it ever comes to that.
It won’t stop anyone buying or importing innocuous machinery parts like 2020 aluminium extrusions or GT2 belts either. There are mature generic 3D printer designs out there that outperforms RepRap i3 bedslingers.
It’s like making a normal printer that’s mandated by the government to never print dicks
I mean normal printers will not let you print money. That’s what gave these idiots the idea to begin with I’d wager. But there are orders of magnitude in difference in difficulty between making a piece of software capable of autonomously recognizing a few existing designs of dollar bills and one that can tell a working gun part that can take a shape that can vary almost infinitely from other objects that can also take nearly infinite shapes.
They don’t recognize bills. They recognize a pattern of tiny yellow rings in the bills, the Eurion constellation, which can barely be seen by the eye. This supposedly will stop copiers and printers from scanning or printing any document that has these.
Bypassing these is trivial.
It’s not even a few existing designs… There is an exact pattern called the eurion constellation that all printers block. Then the process for printing each countries currency just involves placing a eurion constellation and you get the protection.
Its a single pattern that is very rigidly defined, to the point that many counterfeit bills that pass inspection shift one mark off by about a millimeter to get it printed.
Granted having worked at a bank when I found out was that the bill didn’t have the off color threads as well, but it almost was approved despite getting a close inspection.
It absolutely will not stop some people. But those are not the ones committing gun crimes
says who?
much like fi the children this has nothing to do with guns
This goes way, way beyond ‘guns.’ It is an assault on property rights and freedom of expression as concepts generally. It would fully outlaw Free Software firmware (which is what the entire 3D printer hobby, having started with the RepRap project, is based on!). It would cut the Maker movement as a whole off at the knees.
It’s absolute tyranny in ways entirely unrelated to guns themselves.
New laws in California and New York might stop people from 3D printing guns
It absolutely, positively, will not do that. If someone wants to print a gun, no legislation is going to stop them. It could at best, slow them down by maybe an hour, as they find, download and install different firmware for their printer.
If you want to prevent people from printing guns, you’ll need a different tactic, because that won’t do it.
I’m no gun person, but you could easily make a gun on a lathe or a mill drill, too. Get a CNC one and you don’t even need to know how to use them.
Are we going to start fitting them with “you might be making a gun” detectors, too? Of course not.
Edit: Turns out they are… I choose to blame my ignorance on the paywall.
Are we going to start fitting [CNC lathes and mills] with “you might be making a gun” detectors, too? Of course not.
I’ve got some bad news for you about just how fucked-up these proposed laws actually are.
I’m pretty sure the law says any machine that takes sets of automated instructions, which includes CNC cutters and lathes
You absolutely need to know how to use any machine tool. You can’t just download a file to a CNC mill and have it spit out a gun. I worked as a machinist when I was in college, it takes a lot of skill and talent to setup a CNC to make parts.
You can’t load a file on a 3d printer and print a gun either…
On top of that, making a firearm is %100 legal.
Not in some jurisdictions. Know your local laws!
NY you can as long as you have a FFL or gunsmith license. Both are not super hard to get.
California you can without a license and you can make up to 3 a year.
Yes it is 100% legal, I’ve done it myself. And there are actually single shot pistols you can download and print.
I’m not in anyway in favor of the legislation, just pointing out that machining a functioning anything isn’t as easy as you said.
Those still require metal parts. No plastic is going to have enough strength to be used as a firing pin.
Not in California ever since they passed that bill that requires a DOJ-issued serial number on your home made firearm.
Nope, you can still make up to 3 firearms a year in California without a FFL license.
It’s not 100% legal in some places. Know your local laws!
Even in NY it is %100 legal still, you have to print it with a serial and you must be licensed by the state to make a firearm (FFL or gunsmith).
I know. I meant relative to using a manual machine.
You could make the same argument for 3D printers.
I can make a shotgun with a pipe, a tack, and a rubberband. Don’t even need fancy tools. And that’s especially crude. Prisoners in jail have made working firearms from toilet paper.
Give instructions for toilet paper weapon plz
Idk when you were in college, but tormach has come a long way with automation. It wouldn’t surprise me if someone had automated paths & tool changes and was able to pump out gun parts without much human intervention.
Once the machine is set up yes, they can absolutely do that. That’s how they’re manufactured for the most part.
But the idea that any untrained, inexperienced person has the ability to physically setup, make jigs, indicate in said jigs, make a cad file, turn it into a cam program, load it into a machine, indicate in the stock, select the correct tooling and set it up, etc, etc, etc… It’s a magnitude more difficult than 3d printing, and the machines that do that kind of fully automated work costs in the millions.
Honestly, the only difference would be the jigs and clamping, and making sure the tools are in the correct loading bay/socket. Everything else can be done by a 3rd party and distributed like it is with 3d printing. even the stock can be pre selected, it’s not any different than recommending abs over nylon or tpu.
I think the difference in magnitude only applies to the price of the machine.
What’s you background? Do you work with or operate machinery?
What kinda old ass 1900s grade equipment are you working with?
I’m not trying to be a dick, I just want to know if I’m talking to a layman or a professional.
Have you tried using an agentic AI?
Because people are already doing exactly that.
They’re using agentic ai to autonomously program, physically setup and gauge, and then run parts? Where are they doing this and who are “people”?
deleted by creator
How big of a problem is this even? I’ve only heard one case of someone using a ghost gun in a murder and that didn’t stop the police from finding the suspect.
It’s not a problem. “Ghost gun” refers to any gun without a serial number, whether it was manufactured without one or simply scratched off. Even under that exceedingly broad definition, these unserialized firearms represent less than 0.1% of all guns in existence.
3D printers aren’t the only way to make a gun. Traditional tooling also works.
Manufacturing guns for personal use is completely legal in most US jurisdictions.
It’s already illegal to manufacture and distribute or sell guns without a license.
“Ghost guns” are a boogeyman invented to sell more surveillance.
Guns are extremely simple devices. It’s not something you can solve with 3d printing legislation… It’s just people giving lip service to gun control IMO.
If you know how to 3d print a gun, you can easily find out how to make a zip gun with a bit of pipe, the kind you’d probably need to 3d print a “ghost gun” regardless.
Like ffs I saw a YouTube video or a dude getting two pieces of pipe, closing one end and putting a nail in it, then making a one shot shotgun out of cheap fucking material. You just need closed space and to hit the end of the fucking bullet. Guns are not magic. They’re simple as fuck, and hard to regulate partially because of how simple they are.
These laws are probably more for surveillance than preventing ghost guns.
https://armamentresearch.com/luty-sub-machine-guns-past-present-future/
Famous examples that don’t use 3d printing, the Luty guns he made as a crypto anarchist psycho trying to disseminate open source plans lol. The knowledge is very easily accessible.
These laws are probably more for surveillance than preventing ghost guns.
They are, 100%. Watch Louis Rossman 's video on the New York law (if you can stomach his vlogs for that long) - it’s had a shitload of money dumped into lobbying for it by none other than overly controlling industrialist Michael Bloomberg himself. They are trying to crush user ownership of manufacturing right off the bat.
And this is basically how former Japanese PM Shinzo Abe was assassinated
Restrict access to vinyl tape!
It’s not just gun control.
It’s control of information and surveillance of every bit of data and every part printed for any reason.
It’s not even just surveillance! It is destruction of property rights generally, including the right to repair and the ability for individuals to own their means of production.
Not a major problem AND going after 3D printing doesn’t actually solve the problem - the core components that make a gun a gun, such as the barrel, firing pin, etc., still need to be manufactured in the “traditional” way (unless you’re trying to make a single use, one shot gun, but even that has better alternatives than 3D printing).
As it’s been pointed out above, the pieces of equipment - lathes, mills, CNC machines - required to make the aforementioned parts require no licencing, no safety mechanisms to prevent gun part manufacturing.
The CA law includes all manufacturing machines that take sets of instructions, if I’m not mistaken
A lathe takes no instructions and is potentially the most useful tool of all listed for the purposes of making a gun.
CNC lathes are very common these days.
They are.
A barebones manual lathe is still grades cheaper, this provide a lower level of entry. Spend $200 and in no time you can be doing 20-30 barrels a day.
But please tell me how a 3D printer, which is at most useful for the casing (which you could hand craft from wood with a knife…).
I’m not quite understanding your question.
3d printers have made guns. They are always bad guns because plastic isn’t great for the purpose. They work and prove the point enough to scare people who know nothing about guns and thus don’t realize why other methods are better and faster.
My point is that a 3D printer isn’t necessary for making a gun, and that you can’t even make the parts that make something into a gun, using a (regular, commercial FDM) 3D printer.
it’s like trying to regulate printers because you can “3D print a car”, when in reality you can 3D print a few accessories and components but the entire engine has to be manufactured differently…
You don’t even need a CNC machine. Basic hand tools and some pipe are enough to make a zip gun.
Basic hand tools can make a ak47. Skill is needed there though.
Shit, just browse makerlab.com and you’ll find all sorts of gun parts!
This may be true, but a object does not have intent.
I print airsoft parts from time to time and it’s honestly pretty annoying thinking I’ve found the part I need only to realize that it’s the counterpart for an actual gun. There’s loads of gun parts on 3d printing sites.
