China is the worst example, they are capitalists who implemented a few communist ideas, generally, every single one of them are not communist, they just call themselves like tgat because they took 2 or 3 communist ideas, that’s it
The agreement 🤝 also included dividing Europe into spheres of influence. Which makes the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact the only agreement on that list not between two axis powers that can be morally condemned without the benefit of hindsight.
Yes. Finland wouldn’t have sided with the Nazis had Stalin not attacked them. Even more, the Soviet invasion of Finland shows that Stalin felt he could trust Hitler to honor the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Stalin trusted only one person in the whole world, and that was Hitler. Almost like a tragic love story, if they weren’t both credible contenders for the title of “Worst Human in History”.
After having a secret pact with Hitler to split Europe. For countries like Poland the WW2 occupation didn’t end until 1989, because USSR “saved us Nazis” by imposing their own regime.
The reason why Russia doesn’t even recognize WW2 and call it The Great Patriotic War that started in 1942 is exactly because Stalin worked with Nazis through Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and Hitler backstabbed Stalin via Operation Barbarossa.
And Poland signed a pact with the Nazis to carve up Czechoslovakia, so fuck’em. They were also occupying part of Ukraine and still cry about the Soviets taking it back
This is completely ahistorical. The entire reason Stalin signed the treaty is because he knew Hitler would attack the USSR eventually, and they needed time to prepare and also didn’t want to fight a war on two fronts (because the red army was busy saving China from the Japanese).
You have poor reading comprehension. I thought you guys loved reading books.
Anyway, my entire comment was about how Stalin trusted Hitler so much that he let Barbarossa unfold as a surprise attack. Everything I wrote dealt specifically with that. FlyingCircus ignored what I wrote and went off on a tangent about the alliance in general.
I said nothing about why Stalin allied with Hitler. I want to know why he took Hitler his word, refused to station defensive troops, disbelieved his own intelligence agencies, and executed German communists who gave their lives to warn the USSR about the imminent invasion.
His only choice was to sign a treaty with Hitler, because Britain and France refused to become allies with Stalin. Britain and France thought it best to let the communists and fascists fight it out and hopefully destroy each other.
Stalin signed a non aggression pact and then began rapidly industrializing his country, knowing dman well that Hitler would eventually break the treaty.
It’s very fucking telling how mad you people get that Stalin didn’t let Hitler have all of Poland. Literally whining that the holocaust wasn’t even worse.
Particularly monstrous when you remember most of that territory was just Ukrainian under polish occupation
If you’re an ahistorical imperial propaganda enjoyer, sure, I guess?
Double genocide theory is literal fascist propaganda, which even has its own Wikipedia page, lmao.
a term used to refer to the claim that the atrocities committed by the Soviet Union against Eastern Europeans constitute a genocide that was equivalent in scale and nature to the Holocaust, in which approximately six million Jews were systematically murdered by Nazi Germany. The theory first gained popularity in Lithuania after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991
Scholars have criticized the double genocide theory as a form of Holocaust trivialization.
And you’re saying that that excess mortality is the same as the systematic genocide of over 10 million people by Nazi Germany? That makes you a Nazi apologist and a holocost trivializer. Very lib of you, lol.
Lmao. To know someone as stupid as you thinks I’m a moron makes me immensely proud. Re read that double genocide theory page and understand that you are repeating literal historically documented fascist propaganda.
By “divvy up Poland”, you mean “soviet land that Poland took in the early 1920s”, I’m sure.
Your knowledge of history seems entirely non existent, besides “enemies of my capitalist imperialist genocidal empire are bad and have always been bad, despite literally saving the world from the Nazis”
The Central Committee of the Russian Communist Party is confident that the Kuomintang will hold high the banner of Sun Yat-sen in the great struggle for liberation from imperialism, that the Kuomintang will succeed with honour in carrying this banner to complete victory over imperialism and its agents in China.
It is said that the Chinese Communists should withdraw from the Kuomintang. That would be wrong, comrades. The withdrawal of the Chinese Communists from the Kuomintang at the present time would be a profound mistake
Stalin was a totalitarian dictator that happened to lead a country experimenting with socialism/communism.
Does Trump’s treatment of certain groups represent the totality of what is possible under capitalism?
To be clear, I’m not a fan of Stalin or Trump. It just seems weird to hate a political theory/ideology because a power-hungry asshole said it was his ideology.
If the population is kept uneducated, poor, and fearful they don’t have the energy, understanding, or organization to keep the assholes in check. It’s way easier turn a country to dictatorship and/or fascism when everyone is stressed and struggling.
There is no perfect system, but they are systems that can build a population that is at least asshole resistant.
Brainwashing starts with deprivation. Those with wealth in the US have been manipulating the system into serving the wealthy at the expense of the rest of the country. It isn’t an inevitability, it’s a flawed underlying system and a capitalist class willing to take advantage of every opportunity to cement their own power.
Stalin was the most popular person in the USSR for his entire time in the CPSU, and could have been ousted at any time had this changed. It would have been antidemocratic to depose him.
Does popularity imply ethics? Morality? Soundness of policy?
What exactly does “antidemocratic” imply? Are antidemocratic activities intrinsically wrong?
My grandmother in law was dragged before the KGB to answer why her 4 year old had coloured the colours of thier territories flag (before annexation into the USSR).
I think it’s pretty naive to reject that people could genuinely have grievances against a government or government policy. Slavery was popular. Gang rape is very democratic.
Although thier issues were with a government and not the concept of “communism”, I think the onus is on you to charitabley acknowledge that distinction. Being the grown up comes with infinitely more responsibility than privilege… and people who don’t understand that aren’t actually the grown ups.
The idea that Stalin was simultaneously a totalitarian dictator while also being tremendously popular among the people presents a false reality. Either Stalin was a genuinely unpopular ruler with total control, or he was a popularly supported and therefore legitimized leader of a socialist country. Regarding the questioning of your grandmother, I think what’s at most to blame is the reactionary nationalist elements that the soviets were forced to take seriously, as they did indeed become vectors for terrorism within the Soviet Union.
Incorrectomundo. I hate communism because my family was repressed by Stalin.
I mean, i wouldn’t say that stalinism is communism
Well when interacting with people on ml, stalinism and whatever China and Russia is right now is the best communism.
Literally no-one on .ml would say that, but you shitlibs have never been above lying, so I shouldn’t be surprised
Well that type of communism is the only one we’ve seen so…
Cuba is the same for example, or China.
China is the worst example, they are capitalists who implemented a few communist ideas, generally, every single one of them are not communist, they just call themselves like tgat because they took 2 or 3 communist ideas, that’s it
Have you heard about Mao? There is more to china than how it is today.
mao wasnt communist either
So who was?
Your family definitely had it coming
Exhibit A
You probably also have it coming
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Probably will with the way the US is bringing back old diseases
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Lol cope
Come at me. I may die, but I’m taking twenty of you with me.
Hell yeah dude, you’re 12
Lol sure you are
Larp lol
💀
Yeah
So you had a family of Nazis?
Lmao what a terrible take
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Outright anti-communist misinformation getting upvoted. Nice “leftwing” com you have here
Never forget the USSR ended the war while the US protected us capitalist interests in Germany.
Lol, sure, let’s remove comments correcting your revision of history.
Doesn’t change the facts though and makes this communities moderation look very bad.
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Never forget the alliance ended the war.
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They got deleted because they were a troll like yourself
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Nazi adjacent then?
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Can’t follow rules they gotta go
What’s wrong with you? Are you trolling to abuse your mod “powers”?
What a life you must have.
There are only 6 rules and this mother fucker managed to break everyone of them
Maybe but what’s about you treating everyone as a nazi if stalin attacked them?
Clearly because everyone Stalin repressed deserved it, lmfao.
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I think an old crusty cumsock could have a better take than that.
Stalin saved europe from the Nazis, lol.
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Nonaggression pact is not an alliance
He was never an ally to Nazis. That’s ahistorical. He signed a non aggression pact, just like all the rest of the powers at the time.
And he was the last one to do it, because he was begging the UK and France for an alliance against Germany.
The agreement 🤝 also included dividing Europe into spheres of influence. Which makes the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact the only agreement on that list not between two axis powers that can be morally condemned without the benefit of hindsight.
You have no idea what was in any of the other pacts lol
You certainly don’t.
“No u!”? Wow, fucking good one.
If I were wrong, you’d show a counterexample.
Sounds like he would do anything to buy time to build up an army that would go on to defeat the Nazis.
Like wasting soldiers and ammunition to invade Finland, also giving the Nazis another ally in the process?
You’re blaming Finnish Nazis on Stalin lol?
Yes. Finland wouldn’t have sided with the Nazis had Stalin not attacked them. Even more, the Soviet invasion of Finland shows that Stalin felt he could trust Hitler to honor the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Stalin trusted only one person in the whole world, and that was Hitler. Almost like a tragic love story, if they weren’t both credible contenders for the title of “Worst Human in History”.
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And then?
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This is historical revisionism. WWII was started by Nazi Germany.
Never happened, try harder halfwit
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After having a secret pact with Hitler to split Europe. For countries like Poland the WW2 occupation didn’t end until 1989, because USSR “saved us Nazis” by imposing their own regime.
The reason why Russia doesn’t even recognize WW2 and call it The Great Patriotic War that started in 1942 is exactly because Stalin worked with Nazis through Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and Hitler backstabbed Stalin via Operation Barbarossa.
And Poland signed a pact with the Nazis to carve up Czechoslovakia, so fuck’em. They were also occupying part of Ukraine and still cry about the Soviets taking it back
And then Stalin defeated the Nazis, right?
With US equipment and waves and waves of Ukrainians.
Lol. The US barely helped at all in the grand scheme of the USSR VS the Nazis.
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Lmao, majority? You’re delusional.
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This is completely ahistorical. The entire reason Stalin signed the treaty is because he knew Hitler would attack the USSR eventually, and they needed time to prepare and also didn’t want to fight a war on two fronts (because the red army was busy saving China from the Japanese).
You didn’t address anything I wrote.
They did, and also everything you wrote was fucking moronic
You have poor reading comprehension. I thought you guys loved reading books.
Anyway, my entire comment was about how Stalin trusted Hitler so much that he let Barbarossa unfold as a surprise attack. Everything I wrote dealt specifically with that. FlyingCircus ignored what I wrote and went off on a tangent about the alliance in general.
I said nothing about why Stalin allied with Hitler. I want to know why he took Hitler his word, refused to station defensive troops, disbelieved his own intelligence agencies, and executed German communists who gave their lives to warn the USSR about the imminent invasion.
That’s what my comment is about.
None of that shit happened, get a job
You’re just a Republican shouting fake news. Pathetic.
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His only choice was to sign a treaty with Hitler, because Britain and France refused to become allies with Stalin. Britain and France thought it best to let the communists and fascists fight it out and hopefully destroy each other.
Stalin signed a non aggression pact and then began rapidly industrializing his country, knowing dman well that Hitler would eventually break the treaty.
Then Stalin defeated the Nazis.
Yeah Hitler forced him to take half of Poland as well right?
It’s very fucking telling how mad you people get that Stalin didn’t let Hitler have all of Poland. Literally whining that the holocaust wasn’t even worse.
Particularly monstrous when you remember most of that territory was just Ukrainian under polish occupation
The half that Poland took from the Soviets in 1921?
The half the Soviets tried to take from Poland 1918-1921.
Do you think before you type?
Because it sounds like you’re saying it’s okay to ally with the Nazis as long as your motivation is vengeance
Do you not know how to read? That’s not what I’m saying at all, lmao.
You went off on a tangent. My point was why he believed Hitler, not why he allied with him.
Did he? Seemed like he was preparing to go to war with Germany for a long long time, lol.
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Kay?
Anything’s possible when you make shit up
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If you’re an ahistorical imperial propaganda enjoyer, sure, I guess?
Double genocide theory is literal fascist propaganda, which even has its own Wikipedia page, lmao.
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And you’re saying that that excess mortality is the same as the systematic genocide of over 10 million people by Nazi Germany? That makes you a Nazi apologist and a holocost trivializer. Very lib of you, lol.
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Lmao. To know someone as stupid as you thinks I’m a moron makes me immensely proud. Re read that double genocide theory page and understand that you are repeating literal historically documented fascist propaganda.
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By “divvy up Poland”, you mean “soviet land that Poland took in the early 1920s”, I’m sure.
Your knowledge of history seems entirely non existent, besides “enemies of my capitalist imperialist genocidal empire are bad and have always been bad, despite literally saving the world from the Nazis”
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Lmao, yeah buddy, any history book. Maybe start with a glance at the Wikipedia page
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👍
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Why don’t you fucking do some reading, and tell me.
Get new material
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Classic .ml drivel
History is .ml drivel? Sounds very liberal of you, lol.
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Gargle them yourself, you fucking lazy liberal.
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?? That’s not what I said at all, I said suck your own nuts, fucking lazy removed lol. Not a big reader are you?
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He also aided the Nazis in their fight against German communists and hurt China’s revolution.
So a flawed person like the rest of us.
Wtf is this nonsense?
Gonna need some sources on both of these.
https://jacobin.com/2021/08/hitler-stalin-pact-nazis-communist-deportation-soviet
https://www.marxists.org/archive/james-clr/works/world/ch09.htm
https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1931/xx/stalchin1.htm
None of this is evidence, it’s just other people making the same dumbass claims
Given Trotsky is a primary source and the Jacobin article cites a primary source what would constitute as evidence to you?
Actual fucking evidence, duh. Trotsky telling a story is worth as much as you telling a story, fuck all.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1925/03/14.htm
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1926/11/26.htm
Does this mean anything to you? As you know the KMT slaughter of communists came shortly after he urged them to stay.
Anything’s possible when you make shit up
Stalin was a totalitarian dictator that happened to lead a country experimenting with socialism/communism.
Does Trump’s treatment of certain groups represent the totality of what is possible under capitalism?
To be clear, I’m not a fan of Stalin or Trump. It just seems weird to hate a political theory/ideology because a power-hungry asshole said it was his ideology.
A power hungry asshole was in charge under this “system”. It will happen again. This is what always happens. Those systems do not work.
Which systems? Democracy? Communism? All systems?
Democracy, capitalism, communism.
It doesn’t matter how you change the rules of the game, the psychopathic mass murderers always adjust and find the way to the top.
If the system doesn’t matter, then why do you specifically hate communism?
Oh, but it does.
If the population is kept uneducated, poor, and fearful they don’t have the energy, understanding, or organization to keep the assholes in check. It’s way easier turn a country to dictatorship and/or fascism when everyone is stressed and struggling.
There is no perfect system, but they are systems that can build a population that is at least asshole resistant.
communism is stateless and classless. there is no top
You don’t have a clue what matters
Ideology and education does help though. We need a system with antibodies against self serving sociopaths rising to power.
State education comes with brainwashing baked in. Do communist countries allow homeschooling?
That’s the sweet thing with democracy, you kick them out without needing a bloody revolution.
It doesn’t seem to be working in the USA now, is it? They find a way to brainwash the masses into voting for them.
Brainwashing starts with deprivation. Those with wealth in the US have been manipulating the system into serving the wealthy at the expense of the rest of the country. It isn’t an inevitability, it’s a flawed underlying system and a capitalist class willing to take advantage of every opportunity to cement their own power.
Who the hell thinks the USA of all places is a full fledged democracy lol.
Stalin was the most popular person in the USSR for his entire time in the CPSU, and could have been ousted at any time had this changed. It would have been antidemocratic to depose him.
Does popularity imply ethics? Morality? Soundness of policy?
What exactly does “antidemocratic” imply? Are antidemocratic activities intrinsically wrong?
My grandmother in law was dragged before the KGB to answer why her 4 year old had coloured the colours of thier territories flag (before annexation into the USSR).
I think it’s pretty naive to reject that people could genuinely have grievances against a government or government policy. Slavery was popular. Gang rape is very democratic.
Although thier issues were with a government and not the concept of “communism”, I think the onus is on you to charitabley acknowledge that distinction. Being the grown up comes with infinitely more responsibility than privilege… and people who don’t understand that aren’t actually the grown ups.
The idea that Stalin was simultaneously a totalitarian dictator while also being tremendously popular among the people presents a false reality. Either Stalin was a genuinely unpopular ruler with total control, or he was a popularly supported and therefore legitimized leader of a socialist country. Regarding the questioning of your grandmother, I think what’s at most to blame is the reactionary nationalist elements that the soviets were forced to take seriously, as they did indeed become vectors for terrorism within the Soviet Union.
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Anything’s possible when you make shit up
Lmfao